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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 509310" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>What kind of drug test did you do? MANY do not test for all the things available. Your son's behavior sounds like substance abuse problems to me. However, I am not there and all I know is what you are able to type on your posts. I would suggest searchng for tests that cover spice, bath salts, etc..... </p><p></p><p>I also strongly suggest getting a copy of The Explosive Child by Ross Greene, and How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. You can find them in most bookstores or order them online. The Explosive Child explains collaborative problem solving, which is what works iwth difficult children. Regular parenting just doesn't work. it gets a week or two of improvement and then back to the same old difficult child koi. The methods in The Explosive Child seem counter-intuitive and often like you are 'giving in and lettign them do what they want' but in reality, it just works. The second book is has methods that really seem to work well. It really helps establish great communication.</p><p></p><p>The only other thing that I can think of that would make your son's behavior make sense is some traits of Aspergers or if he was abused or attacked or hurt in some way around the time that his behavior changed. Asperger's can make a kid truly believe that they are your peer, your equal. I don't think it would just pop up in a teen. This is a trait that most kids would have shown you from a very young age - toddler or before. It did have my difficult child tell us OFTEN that we should just let him do what we wanted, that he knew what was best for him and we should just stop "bothering" him and do what he told us to. He didn't get very far with that because he started telling us that around age 3-4. </p><p></p><p>If abuse of some kind is at the root, then a therapist would be the one who could help. I am glad you are seeing a therapist. I would NOT jump immediately to this as the source of the change in behavior, just sort of keep an eye out and look back to see if difficult child suddenly stopped an activity or habit around the time he changed so much.</p><p></p><p>You have another problem. Violence in the home just can't be tolerated. I am pleased you called for help and your son ended up with some real-world consequences for attacking your husband. You MUST create a safety plan that says what everyone does and where everyone goes when difficult child is being violent/making unsafe choices. You MUST include ways for the younger kids to stay safe and away from him. If it is possible to put a phone in a room with a door that is sturdy and has a good lock that your little ones can go into when difficult child is raging, that would be a good thing. Write up the safety plan and post it on the walls in different areas. No, it isn't what you wanted to hang on the walls, but it is a LOT better than having to repair holes or take people to the doctor/ER because difficult child hurt them. You also NEED to call the police when difficult child hits anyone or damages property. </p><p></p><p>YOU are not choosing to hit people or damage your property. If you don't call the police when difficult child does, he will NEVER learn that he can't behave this way and sooner or later he wil go and do this out in the world and then the system won't be so nice. He has to get this lesson as soon as possible and he is WAY too big for you or husband to teach it to him. He needs to learn this from people with the training and tools to really stop him from doing the things he is doing. It also will show Child Protection that you are very serious about keeping the other kids safe and getting help for difficult child, which will keep you from having problems with them. Child Protection will also want a safety plan if they are ever called in and having them already made and on the walls will show them that you are very serious about protecting the younger two when difficult child is out of control. </p><p></p><p>I know you want difficult child off of the zoloft, but PLEASE do not do this yourself. Not only can he have withdrawal if he has been on it for even a short while, you also really NEED a dr to supervise weaning him off this medication. Urge the doctor to try something else if you think it will help.</p><p></p><p>As for giving up? None of us do. I think what you are refering to is DaisyFace's thread about giving up with the county/state mental health help that is most of what she has access to. The REASON she wants to give up is that in the several years that they ahve been trying to get help via this system, they have gotten NO help and a LOT of idiots who think that behavior contracts and stickers and game night fix everything. She had one therapist who wrote goals saying that her difficult child would not hurt anyone 5 our of 7 days and then another who took her daughter to open a checking account that the parents would have NO control over (and her daughter has a history of running off to meet guys she met online, or of trying to!!) and then told the difficult child that difficult child would get scholarships nad grants and TONS of money to live in style and go to college - and this is just totally unrealistic for this difficult child. </p><p></p><p>DF wanted to give up ON THE SYSTEM that they were working with because it made even less sense than her difficult child does. She also was recognizing that ONLY the tough natural and logical consequences of her actions was going to get her difficult child to change ANYTHING, largely because this child hadn't started having problems 2 yrs before, but had them for far longer and NOTHING worked to change ANYTHING. After over a decade of fighting for help, Df recognized that NOTHING she could do would help, so she is turning to natural, logical conseuqences to help her daughter. Basically turning to the village and away from the village idiots running the "mental health system", not turning away from her child. </p><p></p><p>This is a LONG road. You are at the start and I hope you are able to figure out what s going on with your son and get effective help for him very soon. As with ANY advice, take whatever I say that will help you and ignore/blow off/laugh at anything that isn't helpful. NOTHING is said to hurt or upset you, and I am glad you found us. Sorry you needed to find us, but so happy you did!</p><p></p><p>(((((hugs)))))</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 509310, member: 1233"] What kind of drug test did you do? MANY do not test for all the things available. Your son's behavior sounds like substance abuse problems to me. However, I am not there and all I know is what you are able to type on your posts. I would suggest searchng for tests that cover spice, bath salts, etc..... I also strongly suggest getting a copy of The Explosive Child by Ross Greene, and How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. You can find them in most bookstores or order them online. The Explosive Child explains collaborative problem solving, which is what works iwth difficult children. Regular parenting just doesn't work. it gets a week or two of improvement and then back to the same old difficult child koi. The methods in The Explosive Child seem counter-intuitive and often like you are 'giving in and lettign them do what they want' but in reality, it just works. The second book is has methods that really seem to work well. It really helps establish great communication. The only other thing that I can think of that would make your son's behavior make sense is some traits of Aspergers or if he was abused or attacked or hurt in some way around the time that his behavior changed. Asperger's can make a kid truly believe that they are your peer, your equal. I don't think it would just pop up in a teen. This is a trait that most kids would have shown you from a very young age - toddler or before. It did have my difficult child tell us OFTEN that we should just let him do what we wanted, that he knew what was best for him and we should just stop "bothering" him and do what he told us to. He didn't get very far with that because he started telling us that around age 3-4. If abuse of some kind is at the root, then a therapist would be the one who could help. I am glad you are seeing a therapist. I would NOT jump immediately to this as the source of the change in behavior, just sort of keep an eye out and look back to see if difficult child suddenly stopped an activity or habit around the time he changed so much. You have another problem. Violence in the home just can't be tolerated. I am pleased you called for help and your son ended up with some real-world consequences for attacking your husband. You MUST create a safety plan that says what everyone does and where everyone goes when difficult child is being violent/making unsafe choices. You MUST include ways for the younger kids to stay safe and away from him. If it is possible to put a phone in a room with a door that is sturdy and has a good lock that your little ones can go into when difficult child is raging, that would be a good thing. Write up the safety plan and post it on the walls in different areas. No, it isn't what you wanted to hang on the walls, but it is a LOT better than having to repair holes or take people to the doctor/ER because difficult child hurt them. You also NEED to call the police when difficult child hits anyone or damages property. YOU are not choosing to hit people or damage your property. If you don't call the police when difficult child does, he will NEVER learn that he can't behave this way and sooner or later he wil go and do this out in the world and then the system won't be so nice. He has to get this lesson as soon as possible and he is WAY too big for you or husband to teach it to him. He needs to learn this from people with the training and tools to really stop him from doing the things he is doing. It also will show Child Protection that you are very serious about keeping the other kids safe and getting help for difficult child, which will keep you from having problems with them. Child Protection will also want a safety plan if they are ever called in and having them already made and on the walls will show them that you are very serious about protecting the younger two when difficult child is out of control. I know you want difficult child off of the zoloft, but PLEASE do not do this yourself. Not only can he have withdrawal if he has been on it for even a short while, you also really NEED a dr to supervise weaning him off this medication. Urge the doctor to try something else if you think it will help. As for giving up? None of us do. I think what you are refering to is DaisyFace's thread about giving up with the county/state mental health help that is most of what she has access to. The REASON she wants to give up is that in the several years that they ahve been trying to get help via this system, they have gotten NO help and a LOT of idiots who think that behavior contracts and stickers and game night fix everything. She had one therapist who wrote goals saying that her difficult child would not hurt anyone 5 our of 7 days and then another who took her daughter to open a checking account that the parents would have NO control over (and her daughter has a history of running off to meet guys she met online, or of trying to!!) and then told the difficult child that difficult child would get scholarships nad grants and TONS of money to live in style and go to college - and this is just totally unrealistic for this difficult child. DF wanted to give up ON THE SYSTEM that they were working with because it made even less sense than her difficult child does. She also was recognizing that ONLY the tough natural and logical consequences of her actions was going to get her difficult child to change ANYTHING, largely because this child hadn't started having problems 2 yrs before, but had them for far longer and NOTHING worked to change ANYTHING. After over a decade of fighting for help, Df recognized that NOTHING she could do would help, so she is turning to natural, logical conseuqences to help her daughter. Basically turning to the village and away from the village idiots running the "mental health system", not turning away from her child. This is a LONG road. You are at the start and I hope you are able to figure out what s going on with your son and get effective help for him very soon. As with ANY advice, take whatever I say that will help you and ignore/blow off/laugh at anything that isn't helpful. NOTHING is said to hurt or upset you, and I am glad you found us. Sorry you needed to find us, but so happy you did! (((((hugs))))) [/QUOTE]
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