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Ah yes, that searing stab to the heart called betrayal
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 372722" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>This too will pass - although it is likely to take some time.</p><p></p><p>If they can't see that difficult child is a tale teller one way (and therefore is likely to be telling tales all around) and if they take it all personally when really, there are more important things in life, then all you can do is move on. BUT - never, ever again should you have those pillow talk conversations in earshot of anybody else. Not even in front of a baby. It's a vital rule especially when you live in other people's pockets and you feel hemmed in and constricted.</p><p></p><p>Over the years there have been times when husband or I felt overwhelmed or angry with his family (or he got angry with mine). We needed sometimes to take a drive so we could talk in private. My problem in the past has been husband himself telling stuff to his family from those conversations; he thought he could fix a problem, or he just got interrogated and simply wasn't used to keeping stumm without divulging that he had a secret he wasn't sharing. He's too honest and is (was) just not skilled enough at keeping secrets from people who were too accustomed to knowing absolutely everything. It caused a lot of headaches at times. One time I was going into hospital for a D&C, I'd been through so much trauma with difficult child 3's birth that I knew I should never have any more kids. husband had intended getting a vasectomy but we were running out of time to organise it. My in-laws found out our intentions and gave us heaps - it was wrong to get sterilised, either of us. I should go on the Pill, they said, but I already had problems with the Pill and frankly, it wasn't certain enough. Whatever we were considering, husband's parents would get out of him. They were too good at questioning hi and he had no defences. Finally he had to outright lie to them; we had decided against sterilisation, we told them. But the doctor had said I needed a D&C. That was true, but I had also asked the doctor to do my tubes while he was in there. We didn't tell my in-laws this and it was a huge struggle to keep it from them. I really felt uncomfortable about them knowing even about the D&C, this amount of detail about my innards has always felt too personal.</p><p>The day of the procedure - my in-laws kindly took me to the hospital. I really wished they wouldn't but we couldn't stop them. So the nurse came in to discuss the intended procedures and I had to say to the nurse, "Can we do this later?"</p><p>My mother-in-law said, "It's OK, we're family. Plus I used to be a nurse, it's OK." </p><p>The nurse began to explain the procedure in front of them, I said, "It's OK, I have already been told what to expect."</p><p>Nurse left. I actually did not know what was intended in detail for me by the doctor, but I couldn't take the chance that the nurse would spill the beans. Very awkward.</p><p>I tried to talk to the nurse after my in-laws left, but there had been a shift change, nobody was available. The hospital had a timing and procedure, I had no way of finding out what I needed to know, in the narrow window when my in-laws weren't with me.</p><p></p><p>So I went through the D&C plus tubal ligation, without knowing what to expect. It was rough. I had not expected the pain, I had not been prepared for a lot of other stuff. Plus difficult child 3 was with me, he was less than a year old and still breast-fed. I was in bad shape.</p><p></p><p>I was glad of the help from my in-laws, have been often, but their disapproval in some strange areas have been a huge problem for us at times. They never accepted or understood the PTSD, for example, so again we had to keep this from them as well as keep from them that I had been seeing a psychiatrist (or later, a psychologist) - they were vehemently against this and also disbelieving in any kind of mental trauma. It was all wrapped up in this hospital visit, for which I really was not mentally prepared. It fed back into the PTSD and caused a lot more trouble. About this time I was dumping my psychiatrist because he really wasn't helping. He would sit there and not feed back, expecting me to just talk. But I needed someone to challenge me, to get me thinking. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, this is just an example. father in law died a couple of years later and we took on an even closer role with mother in law. Eventually she moved to live very near us and is increasingly dependent on us as she gets more frail. I drive her to a lot of places, take her shopping and we're sharing dinner 6 nights out of 7. In the early days of our relationship, mother in law didn't want me around. I was an interloper stealing her son. I was the first serious involvement with any of her kids and it scared her, I think. I am a fairly passive person and put up rather than argued, but it was very difficult. Over the years we have been in their pockets a lot and it has been very stressful at times. I've tended to put up and shut up. Politically we are poles apart. There have been times when I've had mother in law saying things in the car tat I find really objectionable. Times when sis-in-law has been visiting and I hear both of them discussing, say, politics with broad assumptions which try to involve me in agreeing with them. I've had to then say, "I don't agree with your politics but I don't want to argue about it." I'm the driver, I should be able to drive without this sort of aggravation, but I also know that leopards don't change their spots easily, so I stay away from political discussion. mother in law can at times be provocative, especially if she is feeling cheesed off at life. She then prods and pokes at other people almost trying to start an argument, because she's feeling cranky and wants a reason. I deliberately don't engage. Call me a sadist. But I won't reward bad behaviour. Instead, I stay calm and if I can, I will change the subject. I have worked hard to get on with mother in law. I do it for husband but as she has improved, it is a lot easier for me to choose to spend time with her. Over time, mother in law has improved a great deal. We are actually now very close (I never would have thought it possible) but I constantly self-censor. Constantly. Ad I bite my tongue a lot. Sometimes it feels almost bitten in half. Plus we never discuss mother in law in front of difficult child 3 (or any other kids) unless it's stuff we want them to know. The same goes for any other people.</p><p></p><p>My rule of thumb now is - always assume that what you say will get out. Even if all you're doing is talking to one person, never fully trust that person to shut up about it. However, if the person you're talking to would be similarly damaged if it comes out, your trust of them n this can increase. But always be aware of who is in earshot, because they have far less investment in your confidentiality. Plus children especially are sensitive to vibes of hostility, of conflict and anything possibly negative. That's why you should never argue in earshot of the kids.</p><p></p><p>Hugs to you, Farmwife. </p><p></p><p>Many years ago when I was a kid, I was often in earshot of my sister W complaining about her fiance and his family, and their obstruction of their wedding plans. From the way W was talking, I wondered why she was wanting to marry the guy. She was quite venomous. At the time there was a comic of a very mischievous girl who told the truth even when she should have said nothing. It was funny (to my eyes) so I behaved like that little girl and at a family barbecue, when W and fiance plus W's BFF (her maid of honour) were all sitting together, I began talking in detail. I dropped W right in it. When W began to say, "You shouldn't repeat what you only half hear; you must have come into the room halfway through," I said, "No, I was there the whole time. You also said, '...'" and I went into even longer detail.</p><p></p><p>W tore strips off me the next day. I was 13, I should have known better. She made it clear that it was NOT funny, not at all. I don't remember being too upset, although it did teach me that no, it's not funny to do that. But I think also I must have done this to test her relationship, to make her put up or shut up about my current brother in law, before the wedding. She was put in a position where she had to really think about what she wanted to do, and she chose to continue with the wedding. She probably never had any doubts, although I remember someone telling me that she was getting cold feet a few days before the wedding and that our mother told her, "You can always call it off. It is never too late. But YOU have to make a choice now, to go forward or to back out. Whatever choice you make, stick with it. Just don't continue with it because you feel you have no choice. You always have choice. Own it."</p><p></p><p>Overall, I think my mother's approach was more mature than mine.</p><p></p><p>W is still married to the guy, over 40 years later. She still says far too much in front of people who shouldn't be involved (such as kids) and vents inappropriately. But it's her life.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 372722, member: 1991"] This too will pass - although it is likely to take some time. If they can't see that difficult child is a tale teller one way (and therefore is likely to be telling tales all around) and if they take it all personally when really, there are more important things in life, then all you can do is move on. BUT - never, ever again should you have those pillow talk conversations in earshot of anybody else. Not even in front of a baby. It's a vital rule especially when you live in other people's pockets and you feel hemmed in and constricted. Over the years there have been times when husband or I felt overwhelmed or angry with his family (or he got angry with mine). We needed sometimes to take a drive so we could talk in private. My problem in the past has been husband himself telling stuff to his family from those conversations; he thought he could fix a problem, or he just got interrogated and simply wasn't used to keeping stumm without divulging that he had a secret he wasn't sharing. He's too honest and is (was) just not skilled enough at keeping secrets from people who were too accustomed to knowing absolutely everything. It caused a lot of headaches at times. One time I was going into hospital for a D&C, I'd been through so much trauma with difficult child 3's birth that I knew I should never have any more kids. husband had intended getting a vasectomy but we were running out of time to organise it. My in-laws found out our intentions and gave us heaps - it was wrong to get sterilised, either of us. I should go on the Pill, they said, but I already had problems with the Pill and frankly, it wasn't certain enough. Whatever we were considering, husband's parents would get out of him. They were too good at questioning hi and he had no defences. Finally he had to outright lie to them; we had decided against sterilisation, we told them. But the doctor had said I needed a D&C. That was true, but I had also asked the doctor to do my tubes while he was in there. We didn't tell my in-laws this and it was a huge struggle to keep it from them. I really felt uncomfortable about them knowing even about the D&C, this amount of detail about my innards has always felt too personal. The day of the procedure - my in-laws kindly took me to the hospital. I really wished they wouldn't but we couldn't stop them. So the nurse came in to discuss the intended procedures and I had to say to the nurse, "Can we do this later?" My mother-in-law said, "It's OK, we're family. Plus I used to be a nurse, it's OK." The nurse began to explain the procedure in front of them, I said, "It's OK, I have already been told what to expect." Nurse left. I actually did not know what was intended in detail for me by the doctor, but I couldn't take the chance that the nurse would spill the beans. Very awkward. I tried to talk to the nurse after my in-laws left, but there had been a shift change, nobody was available. The hospital had a timing and procedure, I had no way of finding out what I needed to know, in the narrow window when my in-laws weren't with me. So I went through the D&C plus tubal ligation, without knowing what to expect. It was rough. I had not expected the pain, I had not been prepared for a lot of other stuff. Plus difficult child 3 was with me, he was less than a year old and still breast-fed. I was in bad shape. I was glad of the help from my in-laws, have been often, but their disapproval in some strange areas have been a huge problem for us at times. They never accepted or understood the PTSD, for example, so again we had to keep this from them as well as keep from them that I had been seeing a psychiatrist (or later, a psychologist) - they were vehemently against this and also disbelieving in any kind of mental trauma. It was all wrapped up in this hospital visit, for which I really was not mentally prepared. It fed back into the PTSD and caused a lot more trouble. About this time I was dumping my psychiatrist because he really wasn't helping. He would sit there and not feed back, expecting me to just talk. But I needed someone to challenge me, to get me thinking. Anyway, this is just an example. father in law died a couple of years later and we took on an even closer role with mother in law. Eventually she moved to live very near us and is increasingly dependent on us as she gets more frail. I drive her to a lot of places, take her shopping and we're sharing dinner 6 nights out of 7. In the early days of our relationship, mother in law didn't want me around. I was an interloper stealing her son. I was the first serious involvement with any of her kids and it scared her, I think. I am a fairly passive person and put up rather than argued, but it was very difficult. Over the years we have been in their pockets a lot and it has been very stressful at times. I've tended to put up and shut up. Politically we are poles apart. There have been times when I've had mother in law saying things in the car tat I find really objectionable. Times when sis-in-law has been visiting and I hear both of them discussing, say, politics with broad assumptions which try to involve me in agreeing with them. I've had to then say, "I don't agree with your politics but I don't want to argue about it." I'm the driver, I should be able to drive without this sort of aggravation, but I also know that leopards don't change their spots easily, so I stay away from political discussion. mother in law can at times be provocative, especially if she is feeling cheesed off at life. She then prods and pokes at other people almost trying to start an argument, because she's feeling cranky and wants a reason. I deliberately don't engage. Call me a sadist. But I won't reward bad behaviour. Instead, I stay calm and if I can, I will change the subject. I have worked hard to get on with mother in law. I do it for husband but as she has improved, it is a lot easier for me to choose to spend time with her. Over time, mother in law has improved a great deal. We are actually now very close (I never would have thought it possible) but I constantly self-censor. Constantly. Ad I bite my tongue a lot. Sometimes it feels almost bitten in half. Plus we never discuss mother in law in front of difficult child 3 (or any other kids) unless it's stuff we want them to know. The same goes for any other people. My rule of thumb now is - always assume that what you say will get out. Even if all you're doing is talking to one person, never fully trust that person to shut up about it. However, if the person you're talking to would be similarly damaged if it comes out, your trust of them n this can increase. But always be aware of who is in earshot, because they have far less investment in your confidentiality. Plus children especially are sensitive to vibes of hostility, of conflict and anything possibly negative. That's why you should never argue in earshot of the kids. Hugs to you, Farmwife. Many years ago when I was a kid, I was often in earshot of my sister W complaining about her fiance and his family, and their obstruction of their wedding plans. From the way W was talking, I wondered why she was wanting to marry the guy. She was quite venomous. At the time there was a comic of a very mischievous girl who told the truth even when she should have said nothing. It was funny (to my eyes) so I behaved like that little girl and at a family barbecue, when W and fiance plus W's BFF (her maid of honour) were all sitting together, I began talking in detail. I dropped W right in it. When W began to say, "You shouldn't repeat what you only half hear; you must have come into the room halfway through," I said, "No, I was there the whole time. You also said, '...'" and I went into even longer detail. W tore strips off me the next day. I was 13, I should have known better. She made it clear that it was NOT funny, not at all. I don't remember being too upset, although it did teach me that no, it's not funny to do that. But I think also I must have done this to test her relationship, to make her put up or shut up about my current brother in law, before the wedding. She was put in a position where she had to really think about what she wanted to do, and she chose to continue with the wedding. She probably never had any doubts, although I remember someone telling me that she was getting cold feet a few days before the wedding and that our mother told her, "You can always call it off. It is never too late. But YOU have to make a choice now, to go forward or to back out. Whatever choice you make, stick with it. Just don't continue with it because you feel you have no choice. You always have choice. Own it." Overall, I think my mother's approach was more mature than mine. W is still married to the guy, over 40 years later. She still says far too much in front of people who shouldn't be involved (such as kids) and vents inappropriately. But it's her life. Marg [/QUOTE]
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