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Another Weekend Ruined b4 Starting...
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 266908" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Even after reading all your responses, I still agree - disordered thinking is very much on the cards. He MAY be also trying to be manipulative, but in my opinion if he thinks some of the things he says as excuses, have ANY chance of flying at all - this is disordered thinking.</p><p></p><p>I'm thinking of a scene from M*A*S*H when Klinger is looking very pregnant and talking to Col Henry Blake. </p><p></p><p>Henry: "Klinger, it's my considered opinion, but nobody is going to believe that you're pregnant."</p><p></p><p>Klinger: "I know that, Colonel. But I'm betting that they will THINK I'm crazy, for thinking that they might believe that I'm pregnant."</p><p></p><p>Or words to that effect.</p><p></p><p>And that is what I'm thinking here - difficult child is coming up with some really bizarre excuses and, as you say, refining them. So he IS aware of other people's responses of disbelief, but he has to try them out first, which tells me he isn't good at pre-assessing his 'lines'; to him, they seem plausible. What he actually believes, and what he says, may be different. But that doesn't mean that what he believes, isn't also disordered. He may well believe that you're trying to poison him, or you're trying to force him to eat. He may well have heard someting in Science class that it is possible to eat until your stomach bursts - if your satiety centre (in the hypothalamus) is not worknig properly, as in Prader-Willi Syndrome, tis can happen. Or he may have heard someone say something about "I am so full I feel like I will burst if I eat another thing!" Or he may have seen Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" where a diner DOES burst, after eating one more thing - an after-dinner mint.</p><p></p><p>People say things in jest, in sarcasm, for whatever reason - these things are never meant to be taken literally but so often a literal-minded difficult child gets confused. If you combine this with dirordered thinking, you ahve a very disturbed kid.</p><p></p><p>On top of this, he's doing the wrong thing repeatedly. He stole money form somewhere, knew he shouldn't have it and made up an excuse about why he was roaming when you found him. But to be roaming - how far could he have gotten in his quest to go spend te money and then get back to the seat before you got home? In other words, how realistic was his plan, if he were to avoid being caught out?</p><p></p><p>It seems to me that you are catching him out a lot. That tells me tat he is really bad at deception, even though he keeps trying it.</p><p></p><p>You have things you don't want to tell husband - does he have things he doesn't tell you? Maybe if you two could be more of a team, you couldstand a chance of getting on top of this. But form what you describe, husband isn't coping. And he expects you to, and it's frankly not your job. You both need help with this boy.</p><p></p><p>A last word on BMI - I have skinny kids too (and one overweight one). My skinny kids were REALLY skinny. When a kid pulls in their tummy and you can see the spine from the front - NOT good. difficult child 1 is still a stick. His wife can carry him around in her arms.</p><p>difficult child 3 is obsessed with being thin - we bought Wii Fit and it's really good in a lot of ways, except the way it uses BMI. There have been articles in our newspapers about the dangers of this software with kids who get obsessed about the application of BMI. The general word is - DON'T even consider BMI in anyone under 18. I think even under 21. If someone is still growing, in fact. Because while you're still growing, your body is still filling out. If you look at a baby bird, it's not as solid as its parents. Its chest isn't as deep, its bones are less dense.</p><p></p><p>So with BMI and kids -it's likely to be way off. difficult child 3 keeps telling me, "I have to eat more, I'm badly underweight." I'm not sure what his BMI currently is (it's early, he's not up yet, or I could ask him) but because the computer tells him, then it MUST be true! Amendment - I just checked - difficult child 3's BMI is 17.8. It's come up a lot, it used to be 12!</p><p></p><p>It also goes the other way. I'm an adult and my BMI is high. True, I have been badly overweight. Before I went on my diet the Wii Fit classified me in the "obese" range (I didn't think it was THAT bad!). I was just under the "extremely obese" range. Now I'm in the "overweight" range, even though I can easily buy my clothes off the rack even in those teen boutique shops. But I'm not the typical shape - I'm long in the body and short in the leg, which means proportionally, more of my body is torso (heavier than legs). I also have fairly solid bones (never broke one despite some fairly determined efforts). So for me, I will always have a higher BMI than my actual measurements would indicate. Whenever I enter those "guess your weight" competitions, I ALWAYS win, because nobody can believe just how heavy I am. Other people who weigh the same as I do are generally a lot bigger.</p><p></p><p>What I'm saying - BMI is increasingly being seen as unreliable and should NEVER be applied to kids.</p><p></p><p>However, you did mention his growth rate according to accepted child growth charts (sex/age based). This is an appropriate measure. Also to consider - family history. In my family, some people have tended to be large and solid even when not overweight; others tend to be small and stick-thin. Not much in between.</p><p></p><p>I think your biggest problem here, is husband. You and he MUST agree on what to do and STICK TO IT. It sounds like he's still being snowed by difficult child, especially if difficult child is saying things like "my doctor said dad mustn't yell at me any more." difficult child is stepping up and telling his father how to parent, and dad is just going along with it, in a shower of guilt, mea culpa and self-flagellation.</p><p></p><p>Very unhealthy, to give a kid like this so much power over the parent who should be most in charge here. I'd be having words with tat shrink, to let him know how his words are being misused. husband has to learn to take charge and have confidence in his own parenting.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 266908, member: 1991"] Even after reading all your responses, I still agree - disordered thinking is very much on the cards. He MAY be also trying to be manipulative, but in my opinion if he thinks some of the things he says as excuses, have ANY chance of flying at all - this is disordered thinking. I'm thinking of a scene from M*A*S*H when Klinger is looking very pregnant and talking to Col Henry Blake. Henry: "Klinger, it's my considered opinion, but nobody is going to believe that you're pregnant." Klinger: "I know that, Colonel. But I'm betting that they will THINK I'm crazy, for thinking that they might believe that I'm pregnant." Or words to that effect. And that is what I'm thinking here - difficult child is coming up with some really bizarre excuses and, as you say, refining them. So he IS aware of other people's responses of disbelief, but he has to try them out first, which tells me he isn't good at pre-assessing his 'lines'; to him, they seem plausible. What he actually believes, and what he says, may be different. But that doesn't mean that what he believes, isn't also disordered. He may well believe that you're trying to poison him, or you're trying to force him to eat. He may well have heard someting in Science class that it is possible to eat until your stomach bursts - if your satiety centre (in the hypothalamus) is not worknig properly, as in Prader-Willi Syndrome, tis can happen. Or he may have heard someone say something about "I am so full I feel like I will burst if I eat another thing!" Or he may have seen Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" where a diner DOES burst, after eating one more thing - an after-dinner mint. People say things in jest, in sarcasm, for whatever reason - these things are never meant to be taken literally but so often a literal-minded difficult child gets confused. If you combine this with dirordered thinking, you ahve a very disturbed kid. On top of this, he's doing the wrong thing repeatedly. He stole money form somewhere, knew he shouldn't have it and made up an excuse about why he was roaming when you found him. But to be roaming - how far could he have gotten in his quest to go spend te money and then get back to the seat before you got home? In other words, how realistic was his plan, if he were to avoid being caught out? It seems to me that you are catching him out a lot. That tells me tat he is really bad at deception, even though he keeps trying it. You have things you don't want to tell husband - does he have things he doesn't tell you? Maybe if you two could be more of a team, you couldstand a chance of getting on top of this. But form what you describe, husband isn't coping. And he expects you to, and it's frankly not your job. You both need help with this boy. A last word on BMI - I have skinny kids too (and one overweight one). My skinny kids were REALLY skinny. When a kid pulls in their tummy and you can see the spine from the front - NOT good. difficult child 1 is still a stick. His wife can carry him around in her arms. difficult child 3 is obsessed with being thin - we bought Wii Fit and it's really good in a lot of ways, except the way it uses BMI. There have been articles in our newspapers about the dangers of this software with kids who get obsessed about the application of BMI. The general word is - DON'T even consider BMI in anyone under 18. I think even under 21. If someone is still growing, in fact. Because while you're still growing, your body is still filling out. If you look at a baby bird, it's not as solid as its parents. Its chest isn't as deep, its bones are less dense. So with BMI and kids -it's likely to be way off. difficult child 3 keeps telling me, "I have to eat more, I'm badly underweight." I'm not sure what his BMI currently is (it's early, he's not up yet, or I could ask him) but because the computer tells him, then it MUST be true! Amendment - I just checked - difficult child 3's BMI is 17.8. It's come up a lot, it used to be 12! It also goes the other way. I'm an adult and my BMI is high. True, I have been badly overweight. Before I went on my diet the Wii Fit classified me in the "obese" range (I didn't think it was THAT bad!). I was just under the "extremely obese" range. Now I'm in the "overweight" range, even though I can easily buy my clothes off the rack even in those teen boutique shops. But I'm not the typical shape - I'm long in the body and short in the leg, which means proportionally, more of my body is torso (heavier than legs). I also have fairly solid bones (never broke one despite some fairly determined efforts). So for me, I will always have a higher BMI than my actual measurements would indicate. Whenever I enter those "guess your weight" competitions, I ALWAYS win, because nobody can believe just how heavy I am. Other people who weigh the same as I do are generally a lot bigger. What I'm saying - BMI is increasingly being seen as unreliable and should NEVER be applied to kids. However, you did mention his growth rate according to accepted child growth charts (sex/age based). This is an appropriate measure. Also to consider - family history. In my family, some people have tended to be large and solid even when not overweight; others tend to be small and stick-thin. Not much in between. I think your biggest problem here, is husband. You and he MUST agree on what to do and STICK TO IT. It sounds like he's still being snowed by difficult child, especially if difficult child is saying things like "my doctor said dad mustn't yell at me any more." difficult child is stepping up and telling his father how to parent, and dad is just going along with it, in a shower of guilt, mea culpa and self-flagellation. Very unhealthy, to give a kid like this so much power over the parent who should be most in charge here. I'd be having words with tat shrink, to let him know how his words are being misused. husband has to learn to take charge and have confidence in his own parenting. Marg [/QUOTE]
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