any ideas

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by mcbeth24, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. mcbeth24

    mcbeth24 New Member

    Hi. I'm new here and am hoping maybe someone can give me some new direction to go in. I'll give a little background on our family. My husband (husband) and I have been married for 10 years. We have two children-darling daughter (daughter) who is almost 7 and in first grade, and darling son (DS) who is almost 4 and in pre-school. Neither husband nor I personally have any history of mental illness or behavior/conduct issues, but husband's 4 siblings have all been dianosed and treated for many different issues--bi-polar, depression, anxiety, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), ADD, substance abuse. Our 7 year old daughter has always been high-spirited and active. She reached all of her mile-stones as a baby just as she should. She has always been an independent thinker and has always been determined to acheive her agenda. Academically, she does well in school and is very bright. She has always seemed wise beyond her years, being in tune to and cathing onto things most children her age would not. One of her best traits has always been taht she's very sompassionate and caring about other people and their feelings.
    Because of her high activity level, I have spoken to our fmaily doctor about her possibly being ADD, and he has always felt she is not. (He also has two children himself who are ADD and says she does not exhibit the typical symptoms.) Neither of her pre-school teachers felt she exhibited any signs of that either. She was strong willed, but not to a point that they were concerned.
    But as she's gotten older, she has become more of a challenge with me, and finally this summer, I called our family physician. He suggested we see a therapist. My daughter began individual therapy as well as our family beginning family therapy. After a bit, the therapist said she definitely saw ODD behaviors in my daughter. I read the book The Oppositional Defiant Child, and I swear it was written for my daughter! I was glad to be able to relate to something but was not really seeing a differnece in her behavior. When school began, her teacher informed me that there were no behavior issues at all--everything was perfect. Her behavior was the same at home--still no improvement. About a month or so into school the teacher informed me of some obsessive behaviors she was seeing--pencils constantly needed to be sharp, hands always needing to be washed, etc. I also saw a change in behavior at this time--fear of germs, excessive hand washing, fear of bones in her food, fear of her teeth breaking, fear that too much wax was in her ears, etc. At this time, the therapist wanted a full psychiatric consult done with a psychiatrist. It was also around this time the teacher saw lots of hyperactivity.
    The psychiatrist, after reading the evaluations of husband, myself, the teacher, adn the therapist, and after looking at husband's family's history, said he thougth anxiety was the issue. He prescribed Celexa and said it would take a full 6 weeks to reach therapudic levels in her. We saw the insomnia for a short time and the increase in hyper-activity for a short time (both about a week) that he also warned us of. But those returned to the pre-medication state, and we've been 6 weeks on the medications and no improvement what-so-ever. Actually, her behavior has gotten worse. She is completley defiant with me, has become defiant in school, completely disregarding rules, has been caught stealing at school in the lunchroom and from classmates three times in 2 weeks, and then denies it, and is just terrorizing our household. I've also seen that spark of compassion/caring for other just got out. She blames everyone else for her behaviors, does not take responsibilty for anything she does, doesn't care if she physically or emotionally hurts other people, and consequences just don't matter. She's gone on a downward spiral now for about the past month or so that I can't seem to stop. We see the therapist tonight and the family doctor friday. Anyone ever have similar symptoms, and what types of tests/doctors did you consult with. I don't know where to turn at this point...are there other doctors who can help, other tests I shoudl be asking to have run on her...anything anyone has would be of great help!
  2. robinm1922

    robinm1922 One day at a time

    Hello and welcome to the board.
    I am not sure how much help I can by my difficult child aka daughter is older than your daughter, she is also on Celexa for depression and anxiety. It has made a difference but I think she is still depressed. I am sure you will hear you should take her to a Neuropsychologist. I took my difficult child and would recommend you go that route. They look at everything from ADD on down. If your daughter has it they should be able to find it. Sounds like the medication isn't doing what it should for her definitely talk to her psychiatrist about that.
    I hope things get under control for you all fast, I know to well how hard this process is. Get things going with the school now, meet with the guidance counselor and school psychologist if there is one. Talk to them about what they can do to help you difficult child at school.
    One of your best resources will be this board, a lot of support and advice.
    Not to mention just knowing you are not alone, that for me was huge!
    I would also recommend you visit the NAMI site, they have a lot of helpful information and parent support groups.
    Best of luck!
  3. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi Mcbeth, nice to meet you.

    It seems that since you're the mom, you saw the behaviors creeping up b4 everyone else saw them. That is so often the case. :)

    I am so sorry your wonderful daughter seems to be sliding downhill. You are on the right track, trying to stay on top of it and try different things.
  4. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Glad you found us, sorry you needed to. I would recommend having her seen a neuro-psychiatric as they will do testing that can be helpful. Will you be seeing the child psychiatrist again? I would call to let them know things are getting worse.
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome.

    With husband's family history, she could have many emerging problems or mental illnesses--that often happens as the kids get older. Has she ever seen a neuropsychologist or a Psychiatrist (with the MD)? If not, I strongly encourage those sorts of evaluation, especially a neuropsychologist. Obviously something has changed. Have you noticed any tics?
    I would not leave this to a therapist and a regular doctor. This sounds way more than ADD to me. Let us know what you decide to do and how it goes :)
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  6. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    Hi and welcome! I would also recommend reading the Explosive Child.

    You are not alone in this
  7. compassion

    compassion Member

    She sounds gifted. Have you explored Hoagies Gifted site? Compassion
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Hi and Welcome! I am so glad you found us, but sorry you needed to search us out. This site offers a LOT of support and info. You are no longer alone.

    I think you are possibly seeing that Celexa is not the right medicine for your child. Medicines like Celexa (SSRI, SNRI or combo SSRI/SNRI medications are not always a good fit for children. Very few have actually been approved for use in children by the FDA).

    Be aware that if you stop Celexa, it should be tapered off gradually. Google "Celexa Withdrawal" and read about it. Then if you should stop this medication, you will want to do it very gradually. And most docs will actually tell you that these medications do not have any withdrawal. I know from personal experience that this is totally wrong, as do others.

    BUT paxil is often used for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). the handwashing/fear of germs, etc.. is often a sign of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). And you may have to use a medication like this if she actually had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

    I really think you need to have a complete evaluation by a Neuropsychologist (psychologist who has specialized training in how the brain affects behavior and in testing to find out what the problems are) or by a Multi-Disciplinary Team. Both neuropsychologist's and Multi-Disc Teams can be found at Children's Hospitals or major university hospitals. You also might find a Developmental Pediatrician helpful. She is still developing, and Dev Peds are often very good at teasing out teh various pieces of the problem and putting them together. (If you are in Oklahoma I have the name of an EXCELLENT Dev pediatrician).

    I have a couple of books to recommend to you. The first is called "the Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Many, if not most of us find htis to be amazingly helpful. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it tends to be quite effective with our kids. You can follow the link on the right hand side of the page to Amazon to learn more about this book. It is available at every library I have been to, and if your library doesn't have it they can problem get it by inter-library loan.

    The next book I recommend is called "Parenting with Love and Logic" and is by Charles Fay and Jim Kline. It stresses using natural consequences while strengthening the loving bond between parent and child. They have quite a number of books, and most are also available on audiobook (very helpful if you have a commute, or your spouse does). They even have some books that are aimed at teachers and can really help your child's teacher learn to be more effective with your child (and all the children he/she teaches). They even do seminars. I went to one and found it to be AMAZING, truly full of info I could use. And it inspired me to want to be a better parent (tough to do at the time because I was quite depressed).

    You can learn more about Love and Logic and the books/audiobooks/other things they offer at Go ahead and listen to the podcasts for teachers, even those can give you ideas (or they gave my husband and I ideas).

    I think the thing I liked MOST about Love adn Logic was that it got through to my husband and "clicked" in his brain. Where NONE of the other books/therapists/etc I had brought home, read out loud to him, summarized for him, sent him to websites for had made ANY impact on his behavior, L&L somehow made sense to him. It really changed the tone of his parenting and we were far more able to parent together and present a united front to our kids.

    Anyway, I think you should go ahead and discuss your concerns with the celexa with your child's psychiatrist, AND you should ask for a different anti-anxiety medicine. There are a lot of different medicines that address anxiety. You should also pursue a complete evaluation for your daughter.

    I hope you stick around, this is a great group and we would love to see you here freqently!