As expected:

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Lil, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    it lasted to the first paycheck...and she didn't even want him to give it to her.

    As you may recall, Jabber's sis was going to take 80% of Difficult Child's paycheck, and that of the girlfriend, for "rent, utilities, food", though she was then going to just save it until they got enough to get their own place, then give it all back for the deposits, etc. The first paycheck, however, was all theirs. She also insisted they get a checking account, not just the debit card that the company gave them.

    Why? That was his question. Why did he have to get a checking account? Because she said to. Not good enough. He wanted to explain, argue, etc., until ... he apparently got in her face, her husband objected, he mouthed off to husband who apparently grabbed him and tried to punch him.

    I was called immediately by Difficult Child, from a gas station down the road from sis's house. "He assaulted me! I'm probably going to be on the street. They treated me like crap. They hate me. They accused me of hitting grandpa. They kept going thru my stuff. They did my laundry and ruined my only decent pair of pants. They're unreasonable. She won't explain. She's taking all my money and won't explain why. I deserve an explanation. I was doing so well." and of course the usual: "IT WASN'T MY FAULT!"

    I suggested to him that perhaps BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS! That if you are dependent on someone else to put a roof over your head and food in your DO what THEY want you to do THEIR WAY! You don't argue, you don't "explain", you don't complain! He asked for sis in law's phone number and told me he'll call and tell me if he's kicked out and if husband tries to hit him again, he'll call from jail, where he'll be after he fights back. I told him he'd sit there...period. He doesn't have to get in a fight; he can outrun a 60 year old man.

    So Jabber calls his sister and yep...he's kicked out. I told Difficult Child not to call her for at least an hour, to let everyone cool down...but he's kicked out, regardless. :( I messaged him the address and phone number of the local Salvation Army shelter...less than a mile from his job.

    It was bound to happen. Still makes me want to weep.
  2. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    Oh Lil, I am sorry.

    Right now, when you are in the thick of it, it may be no consolation at all to think of this, but here goes. Some kids (mine and yours) do every single thing the hardest possible way. They don't learn from their experience and they don't listen to anybody.

    They have to go through each step over and over again, each person in their lineup, until they reach the end of the list of people and places and things....and there is nobody but...themselves.

    And that is their rock bottom.

    You and I will never understand why it happens. It seems so ridiculous and unnecessary to us.

    But it is their path. For whatever reason. It's just their journey.

    You have come light years. You are hanging in there, loving your son and letting him live life on his terms, whatever that looks like.

    It's very hard to do, and there are periods of time when the grief and fear and plain old sadness is just profound.

    One day at a time. This too shall pass. I am praying he learns something here, and even if he doesn't recognize it today, it will come back to him later and it will be useful to him.

    Warm hugs on this Sunday. We finally have some sunshine and blue skies here after nearly 10 days of gray and rain. Hang in there, Lil.

    We're here for you.
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  3. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    How disheartening. I am so sorry things turned out this way. Stay t he course....hugs.
  4. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    :hugs: I take it girlfriend is kicked out along with your son. Maybe she will decide to go back home. Your doing great.
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  5. mtic

    mtic Member

    So sorry to hear this. Difficult children really know how to keep screwing up over and over again. Mine just got kicked out of his friend's house too and decided he'll couch surf. Haven't heard from him at all and probably won't. Guess they just need to learn the really, really hard way. Hugs.
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  6. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I have been reading along, Lil. I find it remarkable how similar are our sons.

    Here are my thoughts: While will-meaning of Sis, it was a set-up for your son from the beginning, whatever her motivations.

    There seems to have been a reservoir of mistrust that erupted. That is too bad. Your son alone is not totally responsible, I think. There is responsibility enough to be shared.

    However your son may may act he is an adult. He was the earner. I can see how he felt. The rules were onerous. It could never have succeeded.

    I would have felt put upon from the outset.

    To have had any chance of success the rules needed to have been explained in front, when there was consent. There might then have been a chance.

    Your son does not yet understand that he will only have voice and control as an adult where he takes responsibility. He speaks and understands still as a child. Where his only role is to individuate and to protest resisting adults who take responsibility for him. Where he has a right to protest, without the need to understand.

    Your son is so young, still. He will learn. The only question is how much damage will be done while he learns.

    You are doing an impossible thing, really, really well. If my admiration counted to help, you would have a much easier time.
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  7. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    That is an understatement. His way has gotten him nothing but homelessness and loss and he won't see that maybe, just maybe, things need to be another way.

    Actually, she wasn't. Sis may not be perfect, but she would have allowed that girl to stay with her as long as she followed the rules. She could have stayed and worked until such time as she was ready to go home, or find a place of her own. But, she chose to leave with my son.

    Actually, the rules were spelled out from the beginning. She told them before they moved in that they would have to follow her rules or hit the road. When they started working, she sat down with them and had them determine the amount of money they actually needed for a two-week period for incidentals. She increased amounts she thought they were going too short on, for instance, they said they were going to eat out once a week. She said, "No, you're young and I suspect it will be more like three times a week." She insisted that he buy cigarettes by the carton, instead of by the pack, because it's much cheaper. She went thru all the details and then added more for extras and determined that they could afford to give her 80%, which they would get back when they moved. She even worked up a spreadsheet where all the money would be kept track, so there would be no mistakes.

    He knew the rules. She was very plain. Her way or be homeless.

    That's exactly true.

    Her rules were tough, but doable. She wasn't asking him to wash her feet. She wasn't asking him to demean himself. She wanted him to open a checking account. Something that he needs to learn to do. Something that most adults learn to handle. The fact is, they might have been able to talk about it, but my son's way is to confront, not to talk. It's "YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME!" not "Can we sit down and discuss this please."

    She called Jabber and told him that when she went to pick up girlfriend from work, Difficult Child was there. He said exactly what I just said, "You're going to listen to what I have to say!" Well of course she wasn't. He tried to keep her from getting back in the car. He tried to goad her husband into a fight and apparently almost managed it, but she stopped him from getting out of the car. At one point, he was in her door, so she couldn't shut it and she told her husband to just drive anyway, so he did until she could shut the door. I get a message from Difficult Child, telling me how the dumba** almost got out of the car to fight him and rolled forward before she could even get her door shut. Opposite versions of the same incident.

    Apparently girlfriend has a adult friend in the next town over, who came and got them. So they'll both be out of jobs and though sis told him to at least call his work and explain that circumstances have caused him to have to leave town, he's just going to be a no-show. Once again burning his bridges.

    He could have left girlfriend at sis's house, stayed at the shelter, kept his job. But no.

    Boggles the mind and breaks my heart.
  8. SeekingStrength

    SeekingStrength Well-Known Member


    I am here, reading along, thinking about you and will say a prayer. I am so sorry.

    Difficult Child's do not like rules, at least my Difficult Child never did. He wanted to make all the rules and get all the benefits. Anybody that said otherwise was an #&@......

    I think your son will eventually catch on, but, boy it sure is a long wait for us parents. (I am still waiting and my Difficult Child is 34).

    Stay close,
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  9. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    I do believe he will eventually catch on, I just wish he would stop calling us to :censored2: about how screwed up his life is.
  10. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Sometimes all we can do is pray for them. He has so much to learn.
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  11. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Well apparently the person who picked them up won't let them stay even one night...which begs the question of why she picked them up in the first place...and the shelter is full. He's posting on Facebook that they're homeless and desperate and it's cold tonight. Once again, I'm just so tired and empty and sad.
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  12. Freedom08

    Freedom08 Member

    I'm so sorry. Some kids, mine included learn everything the hard way. I wish you and Jabber peace and comfort.
  13. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Never-ending. Message this morning was that they finally went to a motel, which would have taken most of his paycheck (his first, so not much more than $100 - and apparently his last), but that they wouldn't rent them a room since they aren't 21. Friend finally let them stay on the couch for one night only. No one else will help. Salvation Army shelter is full. Probably has a waiting list. He reiterated how screwed they are.

    And it's not his fault. :(

    No, he didn't say that...but I know he thinks it. He thinks it is not his fault; that the uncle assaulted him for no good reason (except that he was in his aunt's face acting aggressive and belligerent...but he'll never admit that) and that they kicked him out for no good reason, that he's now homeless and unemployed, again, and that he is not to blame.

    His story and his aunts are practically opposite. I'm sure, like in most cases, the truth lies somewhere in between...and knowing my son, I'm sure it's closer to her version than his. I've always told him his mouth would be his downfall. He just won't shut up and do what he's told.

    It's all he has ever had to do. :(
  14. Childofmine

    Childofmine one day at a time

    Lil, you are in the thick of it right now. He is driving you nuts with way too much information and you are charged with sitting there and taking it and doing nothing.

    It is the hardest thing in the world.

    Take care of you today. If you end up doing something, okay, so be it.

    This game is not about perfection. It is about watching someone you love beyond all measure self-destruct and not being able to do one single thing to affect a change.

    I went to my usual Sunday morning Al-Anon meeting yesterday. A woman was there for the first time, her first meeting. At the end, she got up the courage to share about her 32 year old son who lives three states away who is a heroin addict and yesterday was homeless, and driving her nuts to send $75 for food because he is starving, and not taking no for an answer. I talked to her for a long time after the meeting and we shared stories.

    She is sick and tired and ready to get of the merry-go-round. She is done. We talked about how that doesn't mean you have to cut off all contact, and if you end up caving in again and doing something, that's okay too.

    No matter what she does or does not do, her one action or inaction is NOT going to be the catalyst for anything.

    I learned the hard way that his way back would not be through me. It just wasn't going to be.

    That took me off the hook, once I truly realized that.

    Stepping back is a process. It takes a long, long time. But by stepping back, we give change a true chance.

    Your son is a survivor and I'm betting that he will come through this to another plateau, and who knows, that might be the next step for real change in his life. We never know. There is always hope.

    Take care of you. That is your #1 job. Warm hugs this morning.
  15. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    There is nothing I can do about this. I know that. Oh, I could send money...big deal. He'd be thru it in a couple days in a motel and then homeless again. I've sent him the name of a mission - very religious, but near him, that offers a lot of assistance, shelter, even motel rooms, to people who are working. Maybe they could keep their's worth a try. I'm a bit worried that, since they aren't married, they wouldn't get them a motel room. We'll see I guess.

    But nothing I do will ever change him. He HAS to learn to shut his mouth and do as he's told; to accept assistance with gratitude, not entitlement; to talk, not demand. When his aunt told him to go open a checking account, he could have said, "Okay...if you want me to I will do that today. But, this is a really cool thing. Can I show you how this works? I'll go to the bank after if you still think I should." But no. His way is to say, "Why should I go to the bank? This is the same thing. I can just get my allowance in cash and give you the card. This is the same thing. Why should I do it your way? It's stupid when this is just as good." and to get in her face and demand she listen until they were both shouting and angry and his uncle felt it was necessary to intervene.

    He has to learn. Dear God, please let him learn.
  16. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    You know, the worst part is...I keep thinking, he's not just ruining his life anymore. He has this young woman with him (pregnancy status still unknown - I pray to God his aunt was wrong) and he's dragging her down too. She can leave. She could call her father and I suspect he'd come at once. But I can see her staying. I can see her being afraid he'll do something rash if she leaves...and worse, I can actually imagine that being true.
  17. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Oh Lil,

    I'm so sorry.

    This is so maddening!

    Why, oh why, do they make their lives so difficult!

    It is so hard to help them. They make it hard. It shouldn't be this hard. But it is.

    How are you both holding up today?

    Prayers for all of you.

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  18. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    We're at work and surviving. Although I must admit to dreading my class this afternoon. Told Lil last night that I'm just really not in the proper frame of mind to deal with a bunch of whiney, entitled offenders who don't want to be in my class anyway. May be working late tonight doing violations. Oh well.
  19. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Whiney and entitled attitude among prisoners?

    That sounds like such a strange concept, but on the other hand...

    I mean, when I first read that I was startled, but then I thought--well it's probably not a selfless and humble attitude that got them there!
  20. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    I would say that a good two thirds to three quarters of offenders were/are Difficult Child's. Nothing is EVERY their fault. Society is keeping them down, judging them. Act like idiots because why should they bother when Society will only judge and persecute them when Society judges and persecutes them because they act like idiots. Well, you all know the routine.
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