autopsy results

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Steely, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    I got the autopsy results from H.'s death. They ruled it an accidental drowning in a pond no more than 10 ft deep. She has 2 contusions on her left arm, one on her wrist and one on her forearm, and a puncture wound on her left arm. Both of her right shirt sleeves had been cut. (She is left handed.) Her coat and wallet were found 50 ft away perfectly folded under a tree.

    PO say they have no clue. They are so indifferent. Have been since the start. My parents are indifferent. But I can't stand this. I am SO upset. I asked the cops repeatedly if there were any bruises, and they said no - and now I read the autopsy and find different facts? And why would she cut her shirt sleeves?

    Do you think the above information is enough to re-open the case? Or do I also become indifferent? Or do I fight my own fight with PIs and others to find out what really happened.

    God my head is spinning tonight. I am so upset. And I feel SO helpless. I just want to know what happened. It is hard enough that she is gone, not knowing how is doubly as hard.

    Thanks again for listening. You guys are my rock.
  2. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Do you still have my numbrer? Call me.
  3. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    PM with it, I am not sure that I do. I think we need to get together on this.

    OH............and the most goofed up, messed up little part??? The coroners initials are C.R.Y. So on every page of the autopsy are his initials CRY, in big block letters. Yeah, thanks for the reminder wacko.
  4. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I PM'd you.
  5. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    I am so sorry that instead of closure, this report is stirring up more conflict and emotion :(

    I have no experience to offer you here, but am sending lots of hugs to give you strength to get through this. If pursuing this issue will bring clarity and peace, then go for it.
  6. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful



    Real life is not CSI on tv. Cops often mess up. You know how I've felt about this from the beginning. Follow your heart on this one.
  7. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    I'm so sorry this hasn't given you definitive answers. As for the bruises.....maybe her clothes hid them from the police? Or, and I'm sorry for being .... blunt...depending on how long she was in the water, the marks may have only been obvious to an M.E. or covered by dirt or debris. The cuts on her shirt do sound odd though. Was it clear that they were CUTS and not RIPS? But, it also could have been cut on something in the water...piece of metal, glass, etc. I'm not trying to explain away your suspicions, just putting possibilities out there. Sometimes the weirdest things have plausible explanations.

    Do you know anyone in your area that is in law enforcement that you could talk to? Maybe ask him/her if they had this case, with these circumstances and autopsy report, what would they think?

    I wish there were definate answers out there for you. I know you're hurting and I want to make it go away but I can't. In the end, you are the only one to decide to pursue this or accept it as it stands now. We can't do it but we will help you through it. Sending lots of hugs.
  8. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member


    I'm so sorry... I don't really know what to say... I agree with Lisa who said to "follow your heart." I think you should do whatever you need to do to help yourself through this... I'm just so sorry...

    Please know you are always in my thoughts and prayers... Hugs... WFEN
  9. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    I have no idea who you could forward it too, but it would be worth a try. It sounds fishy to me.
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry this did not bring any closure, but instead brought more questions. I can't offer any answers. Call witz, and follow your heart.

    Sending hugs, love and strength to get you through.

  11. 4sumrzn

    4sumrzn New Member

    Sending my thoughts, prayers & {{{hugs}}}.
  12. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    It would be easier if there were someone to blame for this apparently senseless loss. But sometimes bad things happen purely by chance. There could be a sinister reason - or there might be absolutely no cause for suspicion.

    Bruises etc often show up post-mortem, sometimes hours or days later. There can be many reasons for there to be bruises or cuts, purely as the result of an accident. I know that if I had a fall, even just tripping over my own big feet, I would have bruises and probably also torn clothing. The last fall I had (when I tipped over in my mobility scooter) required months of physiotherapy and massage to get me back to where I was. I had bruises all down one side of my body, my shoulder was in spasm for weeks and I ripped the leg of my trousers and the sleeve of my shirt. And that was just from an accidental fall!

    Her left arm had bruises and a puncture wound - if she was falling, as a left-hander it is her left arm (especially hand and forearm) that she would have put out to save herself. The cuts to her right sleeve could have happened at any time, but remember - the right arm would have been behind her, the left would have been in front. It is possible the right sleeve could have been cut by snagging on something during her fall, or in some other way after she died (maybe even by the police when they found her, as part of retrieval).

    if she fell and also hit her head, she could have been stunned for long enough to drown, and any bruising be hidden by her hair. But she needn't have hit her head as violently as her arm - sometimes it doesn't take much to stun someone enough for them to drown. If the water was cold enough, it may have been all that was needed for her to drown - when you land in extremely cold water the first thing you do (can't help it) is take a gasp.

    What the description of injuries does tell me - she didn't kill herself. Because if she had deliberately jumped into the water, she wouldn't have tried to save herself. And I'm sure she did - the injuries on her left arm indicate this. Whatever happened, I think suicide could genuinely be ruled out and not simply have been left off the report out of consideration for your feelings.

    As for your parents being indifferent - is it indifference? Or is it some level of acceptance? Their relationship with her was very different to yours, they will be experiencing things differently. That doesn't mean her loss doesn't hurt them, but maybe for them they find it easier to accept an accident (accept it gratefully, perhaps) than to even bear to consider the possibility of foul play. Whereas you are hurting very deeply, in a different way, and have a desperate need to KNOW, if even the tiniest chink doesn't seem to fit.

    I'm not saying there wasn't the possibility of foul play, only that from what you've told us, this is not inconsistent with the ruling of accidental drowning. I don't see anything that couldn't be explained.

    Would you be free to ask for ideas on how her sleeves were cut? And in what fashion? Were they clean cuts, or were they more like damage due to being caught on a branch, for example? Sometimes a word can be misinterpreted, or misunderstood. Would knowing more detail help you? Or would it upset you further?

    I hope you can find the answers you are looking for, and that they can give you some peace. That is not the same as indifference.

  13. ML

    ML Guest

    I agree with the others who said to follow your heart and if you think it will bring you clarity and peace than go for it. The part that ***** is that opening it up will bring TONS of junk: emotion, financial drain, and you will be unable to heal. But for you maybe the end will justify the means. The really suckky part is that in the end she will still be gone. But maybe having these answers is what you need to process your grief and loss. I am just so sorry that you're going through all this. We love you xo ML
  14. Abbey

    Abbey Spork Queen

    I'm sorry for the lack of answers. As far as your parents, everyone has their own way of dealing with grief. It may be that they need to put it out of their minds in order to move on. Who knows. It doesn't mean they don't care, but need to not think. Sometimes it's good to not think. Does that make sense?

  15. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Even with the bruises and cuts, the ME ruled it accidental drowning. They usually come to their own conclusions, especially in things like this where there are questions.

    It is not becoming indifferent to accept. I think your parents are accepting this as a tragic outcome to a tragic event. The police probably just went with the little information they had and went on to cases that were more black and white.

    Other than taking your hard-earned money, which you can ill afford right now, what do you honestly think a PI is going to find out? There are few that would even know how to investigate something like this, let alone dig deeply. Most PIs are used to catch someone doing a misdeed -- cheating on a spouse, faking an injury. Criminal investigators are rare. Criminal investigators that can show an accidental death wasn't are more for television shows than real life.

    If your sister were fighting for her life there would more than likely be more bruises. As has been said, her sleeve could have been ripped at any time.

    Honestly, if there were more signs of a struggle, something more said by the ME then I would say fight to get more answers, but with the little there is, the fact you are in dire financial straits as it is and the chances of getting any different answers are slim, I would try to accept this death as a truly tragic accident. I'm sorry. I truly am.
  16. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    Steely, with the amount of financial,professional and personal issues facing you, I would wait to tackle PI's. They won't work for free no matter how compelling the case may be.

    If I watched enough of CSI. bruises sometimes do not show themselves for a while. I have no idea if this is true or not.

    I understand your distress but there is nothing you can do now that you can't do when you are on a more firm emotional and financial ground. It won't bring your sister back and will put you in a tailspin until you go down like a sinking ship. Don't forget or disengage. Just put it on the back burner until you have your feet under you so to speak.
  17. Star*

    Star* call 911


    I wish I had something to say to make you feel any better. What would be wrong with taking your sisters autopsey report to your local coroner and asking him to give his opinion on the case? Maybe make a copy with a letter stating your feelings?

    It's a guess as to how thorough the coroner for your sisters case was, but by law and reputation they have to be so thorough as to be above suspicion if ever a case were reopened. Most coroners are 'voted' into office not just there. So in order to keep their job they have to be very thorough.

    I would only guess that in being that thorough he would have looked for clues above and beyond what the police verbally gave him, by examination of her body. Knowing that even with my Father's death didnt' make me feel better - See I wasn't there and I got left having to believe what other's told me on how he died. Even then from doctors, family, clergy - I had a hard time believing "ALL THAT COULD BE DONE" was. I walked away feeling angry and cheated for a long time. Eventually I started to allow myself to remember the GOOD things about my Dad and it let me - let him go. My good memories were more important than clouding any time with my negative what if thoughts.

    No one can answer for you what you feel - and I'm sorry you are hurting. There really isn't a time limit on grief.

    Hugs for your hurting heart.
  18. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    So sorry there weren't more clear answers for you. Sending many hugs.
  19. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    I realize I have no money to fight this case. I realize that cops make mistakes. And I realize that my parents indifference is really their denial. I get it all in my head.

    I am not sure how me talking about my debt issues 2 weeks ago on another post, really have any relevance to this post. That is a bit irritating. Who is say who I know, or how I get the help, or that I don't have rich friends?

    And my parents are always in denial. That is the problem. Indifference, deflecting, denial is who they are, and it greatly impacted my childhood.

    Their denial was the reason this whole case was investigated as it was. I insisted that it was a homocide/suicide/a death from day one - I knew she was dead. Had the police listened to me - instead of my parents, who believed she was choosing to be missing - the whole case would have been investigated differently. Completely.

    Her sleeve was actually cut with scissors. I will call the DA and ask him how this happened. And the bruises are on the interior of her wrist and bi-cep........
    in my opinion someone grabbed her........but it could have been her girlfriend or someone when she was upset before she died.

    I understand what most of you are saying. Just let it go. I don't have the emotional resources to fight this right now. I get it. It is just that I am her big sister, and I am supposed to kick people's butt if they hurt her.......or if she is hurting........I am supposed to jump in and help her. It is hard to let that go, even though she is.
  20. Abbey

    Abbey Spork Queen

    Gosh, Steely.

    Come out and hang out with me in Vegas for the next few months. No husband, no kids, no birds. We could have a group pity party. (Small group, unless anyone else wants to attend.)

    I'm not trying to make light of your situation, which is absolutely horrible, but sometimes you need to take a step back and breathe.

    The offer is always open.