Bad week-end

[house of cards]

Saturday started off ok, the kids were outside playing and my little guy comes running in crying saying difficult child punched him in the stomach, I didn't see it and wasn't sure he wasn't exagerating so I wasn't greatly distressed, talked to difficult child and found out he did it because his little brother was being verbally annoying. I gave difficult child a choice between reading alone in a room for 1 hour or running around with me for the day(5 hours of shopping) He chose the shopping which I felt would give the rest of the house a break anyway.
Sunday my 7 yo daughter tells me he hit her with a stick, she has been telling tales to get kids in trouble, I couldn't see any mark so I used it as an opportunity to show her the value of an honest reputation, that I couldn't protect her from something I didn't see happen if I didn't know she was going to tell me the truth, I tried to get the whole story from other kids but they didn't see anything either so he didn't get any consequence(wish I had). Later that day he gets upset at losing a game with his 14 yo brother and he gets into a fight of sorts where he tries to shut a manual garage door down on my older son...at one point it was on his neck with his hands holding it off. This experience even scared my difficult child. I am a little numb with shock and also mad that I even let the p-doctor talk me into trying another stimulant. I know that the stimulants are behind these behaviors. When I explained that he wasn't allowed to play with the other kids unless I was within eye or ear site I had an hour long tantrum. I was soo good, doing everything right until he began taking the door and trying to smash the doorknob through the wall at which point I did lose it a bit...sorry I am not feeling quilty about it at all, I lasted a long time but I have limits too. He was spanked. I then got back into the right mindset and helped him calm down with a bath and lotion.
Today was our p-doctor appointment, I relayed the details of my week-end and I think I now have her considering BiPolar (BP) as my difficult child's major diagnosis. finally. I get to discontinue the Focalin. Still not at the point where she will consider a first line mood stablizer but I think the Zyprexa and fish oil alone will be enough for the short term future. Come next Sept. and the stress that brings and who knows what then but I am one step closer to having a p-doctor that gets it.

 

[everywoman]

Glad psychiatrist is finally getting on board. It's really difficult to "manage" a kid with so many disorders against him. Taking him shopping was a good idea---if he can handle the store thing. Hopefully taking him off the stimulant will help with the aggressivness towards the others. Until then, think of activities they can all do or get him to help you while they play.

 

[Marguerite]

Kathie, under those circumstances I would have spanked too. It's like a glass of cold water in the face of a hysteric - they need something to stop the runaway hysteria, something to pull them up sharp. In general spanking is not good because too often it's done in anger and done as the main punishment. But you did it to put a sudden stop to out of control destructive behaviour.

If the stimulants are behind the deterioration iin behaviour, can you ring the doctor and take him off them? Also, it's hard to punish a kid for something he can't control. Helping him FIND control, or reducing his exposure to situations that will tip over into uncontrollability, are better options. By insisting on supervising him you are doing that, you need to show him that watching is to keep HIM safe from himself, too, and that you know it's not just him, there are other factors making it very difficult for him to 'hold it together'.

That doesn't mean he has carte blanche to do whatever damage his explosive moods produce - but it does mean that if he has little or no control, discipline isn't going to change that.

It's like a baby who insists on touching the antique glass cabinet. You can TRY smacking the baby, but will he realise why? Will he stop touching the cabinet? Or you can more safely protect the cabinet by removing the baby to another room, or taking the cabinet out of that room and putting it away somewhere safe. Of giving the baby something else to do as a distraction.

Sometimes with our difficult children we have to treat them like babies, in terms of how to prevent undesirable behaviour.

If your other kids' behaviours are provoking him, that's not going to stop with discipline either. Can you give them something to do, something productive and safe, which will burn up some of that damaging energy? Yard work? Tidying up weeds, fallen branches, etc? If you do, I would allocate a different part of the yard to each child and set a time limit (ten minutes? Thirty minutes?). Let them compete (in a friendly way) to see who can clean it the fastest/have the biggest rubbish pile/the neatest rubbish pile by the time the buzzer goes. Then reward them with hot chocolate. You're still supervising, but they're exercising and being useful.

The kids sound very competitive and into blame. Is there any way you can help them move beyond this? We've been discussing blame on another thread. I know in your family right now, you probably feel you are doing all you can (and you could well be right) but have a read and see what you think. Can you use any of it right now? If not, can you file it away for later?

Don't feel bad about smacking. I think this time you did the right thing.

Marg

 

[Sunlight]

do you mean omega three fish oil? how do they prescribe that? I am interested in that as I have read a lot about it being good for anyone.

 

[Marguerite]

In Australia we can buy omega 3 fish oil at any health food store and over the counter at a pharmacy. Like anything highly recommended by the media, it's expensive.

We tried it with difficult child 3 - no difference. Same story with difficult child 3's autistic young friend - his mother had him on fish oil as an alternative to stims (because she has a 'friend' who keeps telling her we shouldn't drug our kids - 'friend' has door-to-door business in alternative supplements). And difficult child 3's autistic young friend - no difference there, either.

But other kids we know - their parents reckon it works for them.

If a therapeutic claim is being made and can be substantiated by research, then FDA will be involved (if it's anything like Australia's TGA). But if it's advertised as a supplement, or food extract, no therapeutic claim can be made in detail. You will get broad statements and anecdotal testimonials, but nothing more specific. They cannot advertise, "This will make autistic kids better" because that can't be proven. But they CAN say, "... as used in treatment of ADHD and autism." Because THAT statement is actually not making a therapeutic claim.

It's like a lot of things. It probably will do no harm to try it and if you think there's an improvement, then GREAT! But it's not anything like a certainty.

Marg

 

[TerryJ2]

Arrrgh! Kathie, what a mess! So sorry!

FWIW, I closed the electric station wagon window on my sister's head when I was 11. It was in my parents' station wagon and she was being a brat. (What better reason to crush your sister's skull, eh?) The problem was, it got stuck, her nose started to bleed, and I was convinced I'd killed her. My dad pulled over, my brother got the window to roll down, and they packed her nose with-snow and ice from the curb.
I felt so guilty and was so paranoid of electric windows that I bought cars with-only manual roll-up windows for the next 35 yrs!!!

The diff here is that I felt guilty and stayed away from my sister and no one heard a peep out of me for days. Don't know for sure that your difficult child reacted appropriately after the fact, and I think that's why you're concerned...

In re: to spanking, the best man in our wedding came from a family of 10 kids. His dad was a psychologist. We asked him his thoughts on spanking. He said he wasn't sure it did much of anything for the kids but it sure felt good for the parents! LOL!
That was way b4 we had kids and we always remembered his wry sense of humor... and he was right.
It really doesn't do much except let them know you're angry. But it doesn't really stop them from doing whatever-it-is again.

In fact, I gave my difficult child a choice once of a spanking or Time Out. He said, "I want a spanking, of course! It's overwith in a second and then I can go outside and play!"

"Out of the Mouths of Babes." He made me feel like an idiot.
I learned more from him in that moment than a thousand yrs of counseling.

FWIW.

 

[house of cards]

Thanks to all who replied,

Kat, He is hard. He seems to have "a little of alot" going on. I don't see much of the Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) except some facial features, he never had the growth delays and he has a high IQ, but I could add sensory issues and anxiety. Bipolar fits what I see the most and he isn't even as bad with that as I hear some of the stories others have gone through. He is a puzzle.

Marguerite, Thanks for the support, I suppose I do feel guilty despite what I said. He is off stims forever, YES, YES, YES. He typically isn't a violent kid, he throws, breaks things, flails about during a hissy-fit...nothing directed at people. He does try to divide his sibs, he can only play successfully with 1 sib at a time usually. With just 1 sib he can talk them into doing what he wants, when they are in a group, they support each other and don't comply. Competetion is a huge problem so much so that almost everything is assigned to prevent fighting.

Ants mom, Yes the omega3/omega6 fish oil. You can get it anywhere from food stores to Walmarts but for mood control you want to get the kind that is higher in the EPA part and lower in the DHA part. I've had luck with about a 2:1 ratio but THE BIPOLAR CHILD reccomends a much higher ratio.

Terry, He did feel something, he was upset about the violence...until he had to suffer the consequences, then he couldn't see past his feelings. At least it did shock mhim, I agree that is a good sign.