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Family of Origin
Being who we are, even if FOO is different and doesn't like it
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 672143" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>I am on heavy pain medication so consider the source of this. My tailbone hurts so much I took a codeine. I hated sleeping in the master bedroom and hated the bed. I did not sleep. And now my beloved bed and haven no longer exist. There is nowhere to retreat so I am in the living room. Which is a better thing. So I will endure. For now.This is what I am thinking now. On Codeine.</p><p></p><p>I am not saying your son is a jerk. There is no way a son of yours and your D H and grandson of D H Mama could ever be a jerk.</p><p></p><p>But there do exist jerks in this world. (I will not comment here on my own son.) Who have mothers. There are millions if not billions of jerks in the world. All of them have mothers.</p><p></p><p>What in the world does it have to do with us? Does every mother in the world who has a jerk for a child suffer as we do?</p><p></p><p>No. My sister is a huge jerk. Actually, she is worse than a jerk. It is also her birthday today. </p><p></p><p>My mother did lament, how did she turn out that way, Copa? I would guess she feared it might by her fault. But my mother lived her life well, and did not miss a beat.</p><p></p><p>Which I think is what D H is doing and wanting you to be able to do too. Let it go. It is the business of our sons how they live. To get to the point where we do not feel responsible. What is done is done.</p><p></p><p>We lived in the best way we knew how to do. It is like with my mother, all of the things I grieved, where I erred. I did the best I could do at the time. When I could do better, I did. End of story.</p><p></p><p>There has to be an end to breast beating. I think that is what D H is saying, too. It is self-indulgent. It does nothing to change what is or what has been.</p><p>This is exactly the truth. How patient is D H, with you.</p><p></p><p>It does matter, terribly much, to you, that you know. But to your son, not at all.</p><p></p><p>With your son there is nothing more that can be done. It is what it is.</p><p></p><p>Can you take heart that he tries to be a good father? And that he does so, is a tribute to his own parents?</p><p></p><p>I think this is especially true with respect to our own choices, about what we permit them to say and to do with us and our homes.</p><p></p><p>Except that I am thinking that if at some future time, you understand how your son hurt you and continues to do so, you tell him.</p><p></p><p>Except I am thinking about D H here, now. How does he handle that? When son is cruel to him, intentionally disrepectful, treating him in such a way so that D H will feel the contempt of his son, the contempt that son wants to deliver to him: How does he respond?</p><p></p><p>That is the way to do this.</p><p></p><p>What I am thinking is that son no longer be able to treat you this way, without consequence. In words or deeds, I do not know. But D H will know.</p><p>Cedar, why do you and D H assume it will be him that leaves first?</p><p></p><p>With a small child, we assume they do not know. We hold the knowing and the responsibility in us...on faith. With an adult, we do not hold the power to render their intentions and their choices, as of no consequence.</p><p>This is the choice point for you, Cedar. Knowing this, how are you going to proceed? How would D H proceed?</p><p></p><p>Cedar, I do not think he knows how he feels about you. I think it is very similar to my own feelings about my mother. He does what he believes will protect him. It is a very short sighted way to see, ignoring a whole lifetime of feelings. He is speaking from the skin out. Not from the heart.</p><p></p><p>But this does not mean he is not responsible. That is the teaching you can still do. To tell him how it feels. To tell him the effect, the consequence of his words. What they mean.</p><p></p><p>That to you it means this: To be held in low regard by a person you love and value the most in the world, is a most hurtful of things.</p><p></p><p>He means it to a point. He means it in his conscious mind. Sometimes. Somewhat. But I am thinking he needs to be held accountable for saying it. (Unless D H thinks otherwise. Then I agree with him.)</p><p></p><p>How is it you are going there, Cedar? Have you forgotten Viktor Frankl? It seems so.</p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>But he needs to be held responsible for saying the words. That is what I think. He is a man. Not a child.</p><p></p><p>If he wants to eradicate the meaning of father and mother, let him go to therapy. Let him stop again altogether seeing you, but let him not use you as things, to deal with his own lack of strength or inability or unwillingness to come to grip with his own life.</p><p></p><p>Because that is what we are doing, here. Can he not be held responsible in the same way? Why should he be able to injure you? Why should you let him?</p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 672143, member: 18958"] I am on heavy pain medication so consider the source of this. My tailbone hurts so much I took a codeine. I hated sleeping in the master bedroom and hated the bed. I did not sleep. And now my beloved bed and haven no longer exist. There is nowhere to retreat so I am in the living room. Which is a better thing. So I will endure. For now.This is what I am thinking now. On Codeine. I am not saying your son is a jerk. There is no way a son of yours and your D H and grandson of D H Mama could ever be a jerk. But there do exist jerks in this world. (I will not comment here on my own son.) Who have mothers. There are millions if not billions of jerks in the world. All of them have mothers. What in the world does it have to do with us? Does every mother in the world who has a jerk for a child suffer as we do? No. My sister is a huge jerk. Actually, she is worse than a jerk. It is also her birthday today. My mother did lament, how did she turn out that way, Copa? I would guess she feared it might by her fault. But my mother lived her life well, and did not miss a beat. Which I think is what D H is doing and wanting you to be able to do too. Let it go. It is the business of our sons how they live. To get to the point where we do not feel responsible. What is done is done. We lived in the best way we knew how to do. It is like with my mother, all of the things I grieved, where I erred. I did the best I could do at the time. When I could do better, I did. End of story. There has to be an end to breast beating. I think that is what D H is saying, too. It is self-indulgent. It does nothing to change what is or what has been. This is exactly the truth. How patient is D H, with you. It does matter, terribly much, to you, that you know. But to your son, not at all. With your son there is nothing more that can be done. It is what it is. Can you take heart that he tries to be a good father? And that he does so, is a tribute to his own parents? I think this is especially true with respect to our own choices, about what we permit them to say and to do with us and our homes. Except that I am thinking that if at some future time, you understand how your son hurt you and continues to do so, you tell him. Except I am thinking about D H here, now. How does he handle that? When son is cruel to him, intentionally disrepectful, treating him in such a way so that D H will feel the contempt of his son, the contempt that son wants to deliver to him: How does he respond? That is the way to do this. What I am thinking is that son no longer be able to treat you this way, without consequence. In words or deeds, I do not know. But D H will know. Cedar, why do you and D H assume it will be him that leaves first? With a small child, we assume they do not know. We hold the knowing and the responsibility in us...on faith. With an adult, we do not hold the power to render their intentions and their choices, as of no consequence. This is the choice point for you, Cedar. Knowing this, how are you going to proceed? How would D H proceed? Cedar, I do not think he knows how he feels about you. I think it is very similar to my own feelings about my mother. He does what he believes will protect him. It is a very short sighted way to see, ignoring a whole lifetime of feelings. He is speaking from the skin out. Not from the heart. But this does not mean he is not responsible. That is the teaching you can still do. To tell him how it feels. To tell him the effect, the consequence of his words. What they mean. That to you it means this: To be held in low regard by a person you love and value the most in the world, is a most hurtful of things. He means it to a point. He means it in his conscious mind. Sometimes. Somewhat. But I am thinking he needs to be held accountable for saying it. (Unless D H thinks otherwise. Then I agree with him.) How is it you are going there, Cedar? Have you forgotten Viktor Frankl? It seems so. Yes. But he needs to be held responsible for saying the words. That is what I think. He is a man. Not a child. If he wants to eradicate the meaning of father and mother, let him go to therapy. Let him stop again altogether seeing you, but let him not use you as things, to deal with his own lack of strength or inability or unwillingness to come to grip with his own life. Because that is what we are doing, here. Can he not be held responsible in the same way? Why should he be able to injure you? Why should you let him? COPA [/QUOTE]
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