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Can we talk about what boundaries really mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 627124" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>This is a cruel and manipulative statement, made to destroy you.</p><p></p><p>Your posts are kind, sincere, and fair, MWM. You share with all of us to help us with no gain to yourself. That is not what someone with borderline issues does.</p><p></p><p>I am sorry this person attacked you. Your sister sounds like a heartless bozo who struck out to hurt you. There is nowhere else for a statement like that to go.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. We are learning to set boundaries around ourselves, so people who should love us (and whom we trust to love us) cannot slam through our vulnerable places to hurt and control US.</p><p></p><p>So in a way, your sister is right. You are setting a boundary to control her. She cannot knock you, cannot reach in and hurt you, with impunity, anymore. She has to fight for it, now ~ which is why she brought up personality traits you might feel would make you unfair in your judgments. That is the abuser's primary tool, MWM. I know you know that, already. When we are hurt out of left field like this by someone we think we can trust, we are shaken to the foundations of our beings.</p><p></p><p>And for what?</p><p></p><p>So the abuser gets a "win".</p><p></p><p>The abuser's primary tactic is to make us doubt that we heard what we heard, that we saw what we saw. Then, they have us right where they want us.</p><p></p><p>Your sister is abusing you. </p><p></p><p>She does not like it that you are standing up.</p><p></p><p>Her responses are classic abuser responses. Right down to using information you shared with her in trusted confidentiality against you.</p><p></p><p>I want to punch her right in the nose.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>*************</p><p></p><p>Maya Angelou says there are people in all our lives who are what she calls "duck peckers". These are people who get close enough to blow on your skin to anesthetize you, to get your guard down, to soften you up. Then, they lean in quick and take a bite out of that little side of your nose or maybe, out of your earlobe. So quick you can't even be sure they bit you, they stand back up, denying they would ever hurt you and accusing you of being a nasty person for accusing them of wanting to hurt you.</p><p></p><p>"Besides," they will say, with contempt, "you're bleeding! Geez, go take care of that."</p><p></p><p>That is a duck pecker, according to Maya. And when we see one coming, we need to holler, with our whole might, "STOP IT!"</p><p></p><p>We need to not listen to them, MWM.</p><p></p><p>What they want, again according to Maya, is us, dead.</p><p></p><p>*************</p><p></p><p>I am going through something similar with my sister. Since I have been standing up, not forgiving, not backing down, not understanding ~ man, has my sister grown teeth!</p><p></p><p>I didn't know what to make of it, either.</p><p></p><p>But for your sister to throw an illness in your face, knowing that comment would give her an unfair advantage <em>because the nature of the illness is that you are not sure your behavior was the best you can be...</em>that is plain mean duck pecking, MWM.</p><p></p><p>You are right to establish boundaries with this person. I am learning that the abusive people in my life aren't even benefiting in any way that would at least, be some reason to betray and belittle and manipulate me. They are just abusive people, MWM. Like any rapist, who rapes because he is a rapist, like any thief, who steals because he is a thief, abusive people abuse because they are abusers. There is no reason, no rationale, no justification, and worse yet, no pay off.</p><p></p><p>It is nothing personal, MWM.</p><p></p><p>If you consistently stand up, she will run away. Your sister will play the old games with a vengeance. And then? She will run away. That is what mine is doing.</p><p></p><p>And my mother.</p><p> </p><p>I am looking with these new eyes of mine at the strange patterns of behavior I have encouraged all these years, in my family of origin. In seeing it that way, I can actually see the pointless ugliness of it and, at the same time, remain just far enough away from it that their terrible manipulations don't hit home.</p><p></p><p>So...I have been able to stay standing.</p><p></p><p>I wished for the fantasy family too, MWM. But now that I am stronger, I see what I see. And it is so pointlessly ugly and hurtful that it breaks my heart.</p><p></p><p>But the thing is, they have always done this. I understand, I back up, I forgive, pretend it didn't happen, assure myself they never meant to hurt me the way they did.</p><p></p><p>But they did mean it, MWM.</p><p></p><p>And I am sad, but I have to see it for what it is.</p><p></p><p>****</p><p></p><p>That is what I am learning, MWM. Maybe it was Recovering who told me that every dysfunctional family has a caretaker type. I am the caretaker in my family of origin. Given that you are so kind and so fair, here on the site, I would venture a guess that you are the caretaker in your family.</p><p></p><p>The rest resent you for who you are. That is what fuels the meanness.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I wholeheartedly agree. You are most endearing, MWM.</p><p></p><p>Your sister kind of sucks, though.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p></p><p>***************</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am sorry you were abused in this way, MWM. But I am gloriously, passionately happy that you are seeing it for what it is. Keep those texts. When you begin to doubt that she did what she did? Reread them. It is unbelievable what people say and do...and I can never understand what the payoff for them is. It must be like Recovering says. Though we cannot see it? There is some underlying jealousy or resentment or something there that we don't see.</p><p></p><p>Maybe. </p><p></p><p>Actually? I don't get it, either.</p><p></p><p>Ouch.</p><p></p><p>But at least I have my eyes open, now.</p><p></p><p>Still really hurts me though, to know what they did to me, to think how they must see me. But if I can stand up to my kids? I can sure stand up to them.</p><p></p><p>With bells on.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes she did! And you were not attacking her!</p><p></p><p>GRRRRRR!!!</p><p></p><p>I am so happy that you posted about this. I have been trying to answer for two days. I keep rattling off into my own stuff.</p><p></p><p>Ahem.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 627124, member: 17461"] This is a cruel and manipulative statement, made to destroy you. Your posts are kind, sincere, and fair, MWM. You share with all of us to help us with no gain to yourself. That is not what someone with borderline issues does. I am sorry this person attacked you. Your sister sounds like a heartless bozo who struck out to hurt you. There is nowhere else for a statement like that to go. Yes. We are learning to set boundaries around ourselves, so people who should love us (and whom we trust to love us) cannot slam through our vulnerable places to hurt and control US. So in a way, your sister is right. You are setting a boundary to control her. She cannot knock you, cannot reach in and hurt you, with impunity, anymore. She has to fight for it, now ~ which is why she brought up personality traits you might feel would make you unfair in your judgments. That is the abuser's primary tool, MWM. I know you know that, already. When we are hurt out of left field like this by someone we think we can trust, we are shaken to the foundations of our beings. And for what? So the abuser gets a "win". The abuser's primary tactic is to make us doubt that we heard what we heard, that we saw what we saw. Then, they have us right where they want us. Your sister is abusing you. She does not like it that you are standing up. Her responses are classic abuser responses. Right down to using information you shared with her in trusted confidentiality against you. I want to punch her right in the nose. :O) ************* Maya Angelou says there are people in all our lives who are what she calls "duck peckers". These are people who get close enough to blow on your skin to anesthetize you, to get your guard down, to soften you up. Then, they lean in quick and take a bite out of that little side of your nose or maybe, out of your earlobe. So quick you can't even be sure they bit you, they stand back up, denying they would ever hurt you and accusing you of being a nasty person for accusing them of wanting to hurt you. "Besides," they will say, with contempt, "you're bleeding! Geez, go take care of that." That is a duck pecker, according to Maya. And when we see one coming, we need to holler, with our whole might, "STOP IT!" We need to not listen to them, MWM. What they want, again according to Maya, is us, dead. ************* I am going through something similar with my sister. Since I have been standing up, not forgiving, not backing down, not understanding ~ man, has my sister grown teeth! I didn't know what to make of it, either. But for your sister to throw an illness in your face, knowing that comment would give her an unfair advantage [I]because the nature of the illness is that you are not sure your behavior was the best you can be...[/I]that is plain mean duck pecking, MWM. You are right to establish boundaries with this person. I am learning that the abusive people in my life aren't even benefiting in any way that would at least, be some reason to betray and belittle and manipulate me. They are just abusive people, MWM. Like any rapist, who rapes because he is a rapist, like any thief, who steals because he is a thief, abusive people abuse because they are abusers. There is no reason, no rationale, no justification, and worse yet, no pay off. It is nothing personal, MWM. If you consistently stand up, she will run away. Your sister will play the old games with a vengeance. And then? She will run away. That is what mine is doing. And my mother. I am looking with these new eyes of mine at the strange patterns of behavior I have encouraged all these years, in my family of origin. In seeing it that way, I can actually see the pointless ugliness of it and, at the same time, remain just far enough away from it that their terrible manipulations don't hit home. So...I have been able to stay standing. I wished for the fantasy family too, MWM. But now that I am stronger, I see what I see. And it is so pointlessly ugly and hurtful that it breaks my heart. But the thing is, they have always done this. I understand, I back up, I forgive, pretend it didn't happen, assure myself they never meant to hurt me the way they did. But they did mean it, MWM. And I am sad, but I have to see it for what it is. **** That is what I am learning, MWM. Maybe it was Recovering who told me that every dysfunctional family has a caretaker type. I am the caretaker in my family of origin. Given that you are so kind and so fair, here on the site, I would venture a guess that you are the caretaker in your family. The rest resent you for who you are. That is what fuels the meanness. I wholeheartedly agree. You are most endearing, MWM. Your sister kind of sucks, though. :O) *************** I am sorry you were abused in this way, MWM. But I am gloriously, passionately happy that you are seeing it for what it is. Keep those texts. When you begin to doubt that she did what she did? Reread them. It is unbelievable what people say and do...and I can never understand what the payoff for them is. It must be like Recovering says. Though we cannot see it? There is some underlying jealousy or resentment or something there that we don't see. Maybe. Actually? I don't get it, either. Ouch. But at least I have my eyes open, now. Still really hurts me though, to know what they did to me, to think how they must see me. But if I can stand up to my kids? I can sure stand up to them. With bells on. Yes she did! And you were not attacking her! GRRRRRR!!! I am so happy that you posted about this. I have been trying to answer for two days. I keep rattling off into my own stuff. Ahem. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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Can we talk about what boundaries really mean?
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