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Can't catch a break...
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 708416" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>ksm. Thank you very much for the resource.</p><p></p><p>a dad, I think I understand and I value your perspective. Let me see if I can put into words how I interpret what you write: the human condition embraces all that is limited and frail and failed and compromised, which includes all of us, each of us. And we flail and struggle through lives which can be sad and limited and difficult and we despair. And for each of us, too, there is the capacity and experience of joy and fun. Even when it looks dissolute or errant. Those are judgements, not truths.</p><p></p><p>Except, not really. When we harm others that is wrong. What your father did was betray his wife and to a large extent abandon his children. He abandoned himself, as well. My father lived very, very badly. And I was harmed by him. I cannot rationalize this away, however much I may want to.</p><p></p><p>There is a point of view which is uniquely American I think, but maybe it is that because I am an American I see it more clearly in us, that sees life in a developmental and normalizing perspective: that to be valuable we live lives that are just so, according to certain criteria that are actually moralistic and judgmental. That we come to judge ourselves (and our kids) by this criteria, and we suffer. This criteria impels us to see people as falling short, or not, when really each of us falls short in most ways.</p><p></p><p>Which is what unifies us here on this forum. Most all of us at one point or still feel we have fallen short as parents, and that our children have fallen short in our expectations of them.</p><p></p><p>More and more as a culture we seem to be putting diagnostic names on lifestyles, and the effects of these lifestyles. For centuries and centuries we had the same spectrum of humanity without the labels and we got by.</p><p></p><p>I am not minimizing what happened to my son and to ksm's daughters, but these are not the first generation of children born to limited, self-centered, addicted parents. This is an age-old phenomenon. And it has given rise to the human condition, which has endured.</p><p></p><p>There is a liberating potential in this, if we can accept it.</p><p></p><p>What I hear a dad saying is, "it will be OK." I see him as reassuring us about ourselves and our children.</p><p></p><p>A dad, I see your posts as reminding us that everything is not so TERRIBLE, that we work these things out in the course of our lives. That people are all of them different and have their struggles. And what looks like up is not necessarily so; nor is down always down.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 708416, member: 18958"] ksm. Thank you very much for the resource. a dad, I think I understand and I value your perspective. Let me see if I can put into words how I interpret what you write: the human condition embraces all that is limited and frail and failed and compromised, which includes all of us, each of us. And we flail and struggle through lives which can be sad and limited and difficult and we despair. And for each of us, too, there is the capacity and experience of joy and fun. Even when it looks dissolute or errant. Those are judgements, not truths. Except, not really. When we harm others that is wrong. What your father did was betray his wife and to a large extent abandon his children. He abandoned himself, as well. My father lived very, very badly. And I was harmed by him. I cannot rationalize this away, however much I may want to. There is a point of view which is uniquely American I think, but maybe it is that because I am an American I see it more clearly in us, that sees life in a developmental and normalizing perspective: that to be valuable we live lives that are just so, according to certain criteria that are actually moralistic and judgmental. That we come to judge ourselves (and our kids) by this criteria, and we suffer. This criteria impels us to see people as falling short, or not, when really each of us falls short in most ways. Which is what unifies us here on this forum. Most all of us at one point or still feel we have fallen short as parents, and that our children have fallen short in our expectations of them. More and more as a culture we seem to be putting diagnostic names on lifestyles, and the effects of these lifestyles. For centuries and centuries we had the same spectrum of humanity without the labels and we got by. I am not minimizing what happened to my son and to ksm's daughters, but these are not the first generation of children born to limited, self-centered, addicted parents. This is an age-old phenomenon. And it has given rise to the human condition, which has endured. There is a liberating potential in this, if we can accept it. What I hear a dad saying is, "it will be OK." I see him as reassuring us about ourselves and our children. A dad, I see your posts as reminding us that everything is not so TERRIBLE, that we work these things out in the course of our lives. That people are all of them different and have their struggles. And what looks like up is not necessarily so; nor is down always down. [/QUOTE]
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