Can't wait for summer

[house of cards]

I'm so frustrated. Major had a wonderful summer, he was handling the added stress of Pop Warner football, he started the school year off with less school related anxiety then he has for years.Then, teachers start in on him trying to get him to perform to his potential, and he falls apart. The extreme irritability is back, the destructive temper tantrums, the lies, the sneakiness, the he## has returned.

Yesterday my 16 yo had friends over, he made plans to stay in our garage because he didn't want his friends to see/deal with our zoo (how sad is that). Anyway Major wanted to hang out with the kids real bad, I said that they all had to stay away from the visitors. Next thing I know Major has sneaked out to see them, I again tell him to leave them alone and tell him to sit at my feet (5 foot ground) for 15 minutes. He starts to hissy but I get him to stop, he calms himself down and excepts the timeout. I ask him what he learned and he replied that he knows the big kids need there own time, he did so well I actually let him up a few minutes early, told him I love him and he replied he loves me too.

About 20 minutes later, I go down to the garage to tell the older kids to lower the rockband game and who do I see standing right in the room with them?? I point to him to go upstairs and he goes quietly til I'm upstairs too. I tell him to go to his room and he is grounded until noon the next day. Then all he## breaks lose. He trashes his room, blocks the door and is banging and gauging out the walls. Finally, I told him if he hit the wall one more time I was calling the police. At that point, he stopped banging, he was an emotional wreck and excepted some comfort from my husband who was staying within earshot to keep him safe.

When he calmed down Major had the nerve to tell me that I wouldn't be being a mom if i called the police on him. I reassured him that I would call if needed because I don't have to be treated that way. I asked him what he would do if a stranger entered our home and began doing those things. He said he would attack them...I said I would call the police.

Anyway, he now has the weekend in his room and he is pushing the rules, coming downstairs to tell me how much he has read in a book or other excuses but trying very hard to talk kindly and behaving very well. But part of it is just a con and empty of meaning. I know he will continue to lie, steal, cheat, break rules, ect. because this is what happens when school starts. I am beginning to hate school as much as he does. School just pushes him over an edge.

 

[smallworld]

Kathie, maybe I'm off-base here, but I think what Major did was pretty typical for a younger brother wanting to hang out with his cool teenage brother and his friends. I know it happened in my family when I was growing up, and we had no disorders whatsoever.

If this situation occurred with my kids, I would just keep the younger child occupied until the older brother's friends left. I know that's easier said than done with all the kids you have, but honestly, a little effort in anticipation of a problem saves a lot of headache later.

Is Major demonstrating a lot of irritability and destructive meltdowns in other situations?

 

[house of cards]

Yes, no rules seem to apply to him right now, It is not his normal behavior. He is taking candy/gum without permission, sneaking out of his room to watch T.V, he was just down stairs when I came home, he told me my husband said he could come out of his room to have tea, I checked with husband...no, Major told him I said he could come down. Bold lie.

I understand he wanted to be with the big guys, but he is over an edge with feeling entitled to do whatever he wants. I guess you could say it is impulse control... but it really feels like it is just a stubborn feeling of entitlement he gets sometimes. He was obsessed with needing to be with them... at any cost.

I also understand that he hates and can't handle being alone with nothing to do(he has 2new books and legos to play with, and that is why I didn't make it that long of a time initially, it was his bedtime and he only had til noon the next day.) but he isn't respecting any rules right now including staying in his room. He will say all the right things and then go do whatever he wants even in direct conflict with what I tell him.

I do understand what he did, I don't understand why he didn't accept the punishment and felt entitled to destroy his room, I have gotten caught up in the improvements we have had over the summer where I actually can reason with him and punish normal childhood bad behavior. I don't get how he can understand that it would be over a line to hit any of us but to write on his walls, scratch them with a pushpin which I don't even know why/how it was in his room, dig into the wallboard with his fingers is alright in his mind...and it IS alright in his mind. I am unloving in his mind because I have punished him for doing it.

What is the alternative, do I just give in to the destruction and figure I will rewallboard when he is grown? He directly went against me when I brought him upstairs and went down again, Would you have really let that go and just tried to keep him busy? All of this is tied into school. He has "forgot" to bring home homework, told me he got an 100 on a spelling test he did very low on, scored a 37 on a test that his teacher sent home to do over because she knows he knows the answers because of his participation during class. It is a small self contained class so she really knows him. Everything is starting to fall apart. Oh, I forgot he also was grounded from recess for three days for pushing a child.

 

[Andy]

Has he been tested for a learning disorder? The teacher says he knows the stuff during class participation but then the test and homework and he does terrible. I wonder if he is having difficulty reading and comprehending the questions or writing the answers? If he is having trouble with reading or writing, that would explain his behavior to a point. He is trying to get everyone's attention away from his school work. He feels frustrated because he can not do the homework and tests but when asked he can answer correctly. When my difficult child feels "stupid" (I would never tell any child they are stupid but difficult child will say he is when he can't do the homework, he will misbehave to prove to himself that he is bad, that he can not follow the rules of learning. He will say, "See, I am stupid, I can not do anything right." Makes it easier for parents and teachers to accept less if the child can make us believe they are incapable of listening and following rules.

Your difficult child knows not to hurt a human - he does not see that destroying property should be a problem because it does not hurt anyone. To him, it is a stress reliever. Maybe finding some way for him to get his anger and stress out? Punching bag, squeeze balls, run around the outside of the house, scream into your pillow, ect.?

Major is old enough to recognize that he has energy that he needs to burn somehow. You can talk to him during a calm time, "Major, I notice that when you get frustrated, you destroy property. Everyone gets frustrated from time to time but destroying property is not a good way to defuse. Can I help you make a list of ideas?" Take a poster board with a variety of colored markers and have Major write the ideas. Post these in his room and next time he is sent there ask that he choose which one he can do and you will talk after he calms down.

How is his relationship with big brother? Does the brother spend time with him? Can you encourage the older brother to set aside time to spend with Major?

You are doing great in keeping with the entire and full consequence regardless of how sweet and polite he becomes before the end of the discipline. He can not be allowed to manipulate his punishment.

You may want to check out the book "The Manipulative Child" to see if those techniques would work in your family.

 

[house of cards]

I appreciate the replies, wish I could explain myself better. Major has a room with a cave made for him by building his bed onto a platform over his dresser, under the cave are all kinds of pillows he can punch to his hearts content. When he wants to be destructive he even tries to pull the dresser out from under his bed, he would rip up any chart I would make out of cardboard but then again, maybe that would satisfy him while he did it. Not exactly the result I would want but it might help some.

As far as a Learning Disability (LD), he has been checked by the school and the place where his psychiatrist is and they don't find anything specific. He does have a little trouble copying from the board but both the school Occupational Therapist (OT) and outside Occupational Therapist (OT) have discharged him, he also has trouble with how he holds a pencil. He can do the homework just fine when you cut the amount down for him, it isn't the work but the amount that overwhelms him.

I've tried to homeschool him but he really learns more at school. He just refuses to let his grades show it and the school can't let go of the grades. I probably will have to homeschool him again at some point but I keep remembering that the study done from this board showed the ability to stay in school as the most predictive thing about adult success, and he just loves the social side of school and I think that is one of his strengths as well. I'm going to send my husband in to the school and try to explain yet again that they have to back off of him...but it is so opposite of what most teachers feel is right and the more committed the teacher the less they want to understand that they would help him best by just letting him absorb the knowledge and not care about the grades. I don't know how to change his attitute or the teacher's...actually I don't think I can.

Major adores his older brother most of the time. Whenever they play sports he will either get hurt from brother playing too rough or fake injuries if he is losing but overall they do well together.

 

[klmno]

I could be wrong and I'm not trying to make excuses for him- I understand your frustration and feel it's justified- but the signs you are describing happen in my son. I'm noticing the BiPolar (BP) diagnosis and from what I read in your post, at least some if not all or most of these things are happening at the same times- it looks like you are starting to see a pattern, particualrly at the start of the school year.

Lord knows I'm no expert on this and am still trying to get a grip on all this in my son, too, but what I'm noticing in your posts is 1)stress/anxiety, 2) frustration, 3)raging, 4) grandiose ideas. Are there any changes in sleep or eating habits? Anyway, I'd probably just try a medication check first. I know, you need strategies for keeping a grip on all this too and that's the hard part- at least for me.

One thing I found, when I can see the grandiose thinking as a symptom instead of as disrespect or defiance, I handle things differently and difficult child normally doesn't escalate. (I'm referring to his comments about what happens if you call police, then him saying that he would attack someone breaking in the house and police wouldn't need to be called or whatever-) This sounds exactly like my difficult child when he's symptommatic. I used to think it was defiance and disrespect until he told me at 12yo that he would be moving out of the house and getting a job and an apartment the very next day. At that point, I just didn't engage but I said, "ok, I'm listening, if you want to think about it a little then talk some more, just let me know" and I went to another room. He was a different person in 15 mins.

One thing I can count on, when difficult child is symptommatic with mood cycling, no matter what he's saying or doing "this too shall pass". (and that isn't meant to push religion)

 

[klmno]

Regarding the school problems and the need for people to back off, it helped me a great deal to get anal about the iep and refuse to sign it until they started changing wording that implied intentional and willfull behavior instead of symptommatic behavior (this doesn't mean difficult child never gets punished-) and get them to start incorporating more strategies to help him prevent problems and learn more (we're still working on this).

It took many iep meetings and head-banging between me and sd, a few calls to Special Education attny, several letters sent to higher ups, etc. Other helpful tools- a letter from psychiatrist stating diagnosis and the printouts that a member here sent me about educatiing the BiPolar (BP) child (I think that was Smallworld who helped me on that ).

Anyway, my son had the same frustrations and problems at school and rages at home that you are describing until the iep started changing. He still has issues (periodic raging, depression, stress), but there is a great improvement.

Another thing, I have emailed difficult child's principal and case manager and told them that difficult child and I are working on problem solving at home (based on the concept from The Explosive Child) and asked for their cooperation in working with difficult child at school as he takes initiative to solve his perceived problems there. They do this (much to my amazement) and it has been very effective for difficult child to learn that if he goes to a certain person at school and talks about something bugging him, they will discuss solutions to that issue with him. It took a few meetings, hand-holding, etc., but this is a far cry better then when he just copped an attitude over something then did something to get himself written up.

I give him a small bonus in his allowance if he identifies a valid problem or concern and brings it to the attention of someone in authority (for instance, when there really wasn't enough time to put his instrument up, go from the band room to the opposite corner of the school to his locker, then return to the same part of school to PE class and change clothes); and he gets a little more of a bonus if he proposes a solution and brings it up for discussion and approval. He gets that bonus whether or not his particular solution is accepted.

So, it cost me $5 or $8 for him to solve that problem at school but he did it on his own, didn't buck the system and actually improved his repoirte with people up there instead of getting written up. I was emailed a compliment (SHOCK) instead of having to take time off work for a meeting or recieving one of those dreaded phone calls.
I've tweaked the way we implement the CPS model quite a bit, but the concept is the same and it's working, at least in some areas.

Have you tried this yet?

Regarding the amount of work overwhelming him- we had to get difficult child in a learning strategies class (study hall for kids with IEP) and it's in his iep that they are to work with him during that time to help him stay caught up on homework, classwork, and projects. Then, if he's really stressed or been majorly symptommatic, his amount of work gets reduced.

 

[house of cards]

If I could change 2 things about me, I would be a better advocate and I would want to communicate better. Both of these things hurt my kids, but I am doing the best I know how to do. I have fought to get him on a mood stabilizer with his psychiatrist, she isn't comfortable increasing it. He should have an opportunity to increase the lamictal..he only takes 150 mgs. I have fought to kep him off ADs and stimulants.

I have fought with the school to lower standards/requirments so I could keep him in school for the last 3-4 years. It sounds ridiculous to ask a school to back off of substantiating learning but it is the only thing that I can see that will work. I've tried to get a homework club or no homework in the IEP and havn't been successful in writing but they did start doing homework in school and cut it way down toward the end of last year when they had to put him in the resource room for math and language arts.

The reason for the move was because the reg ed teachers got frustrated with his work effort and my request to ease up on him and they quit on him, after his attitute really fell apart(he stopped caring what they thought at all, he stopped doing any work for them). The sp ed teachers are much more receptive to thinking outside the box but they can't get away from grades and test scores either. My son was starting to actually enjoy school, came home and began his homework without prodding and was learning.

I know this is what he needs and I will do my best but it is harder because of my social anxiety and poor communication skills. It is so frustrating to have to do this every year and they still won't truly understand until they try it their way first and get my difficult child angry and turned off of school. Then they will try my way when they have created a ticking time bomb that they don't no how to deal with.

 

[klmno]

I know you are doing the best you can and I hope I didn't sound critical of you. I think you need something to back you up in the IEP struggle. If the psychiatrist is a struggle, is it possible to change to another one (not to bring to the iep meeting, but for tweaking medications, etc)?

Regarding a Special Education attny, I didn't have $10,000 to go thru the due process, but I did speak to two different ones. Here's how I kept the fee minimal- call a referral place, they will give you the name to speak to someone for about 20 mins on the phone for little ($50 or less) or NO fee while you explain your case, they make suggestions, and you can decide whether or not you want to hire them. Or, look online and find a local place that you can email your problem and they will get back to you and explain whatever points would make a case for you, then they will discuss taking your case. They don't necessarily know that you can't afford for them to take your case and you don't need to mention that to anyone at sd either.

So, then I did my homework on wrightslaw and IDEA and BiPolar (BP) and symtpoms and documented my son's reaction to things, any efforts I'd made at home with him for HW and contacts/requests with the school. I printed out emails that I had sent to the school informing them of any issue he was having and their responses that showed they were blaming him and not mentioning one thing about helping him. I documented any inconsistency that they conveyed to me. Anything I found that the sd had dropped the ball on, I documented that, too.

Then I started writing letters and sending them certified mail to the principal, Special Education director for sd and school board (superintendent). Put "cc: Mr. XXX, attny at law" at the bottom and sent the attny a copy (not certified). I attached copies of any facts to suport my case to the letters to the Special Education director and school board.

If you go this route, more than likely, this will get you a couple of phone calls from the sd and they will be trying to find out if you are about to pursue more with the attny. Possible conversation: "Ms. XYZ, we received this letter from you and we're not sure what the problem is, we have tried to accommodate your son by doing ABC, yet he continues to make poor choices. I noticed you refer to an attny in your letter, could you tell me what it is you think we could do that we haven't already tried that will make your son change the choices he makes?" If you just say, "well, I have spoken to an attny about this situation, but really my objective is to get my son the help he needs; I understand that you feel it is all my son's choices and this is where I think the problem lies. He's on an IEP because he need accommodations to help him do better, rather than providing that the sd is treating him like he's just a bad kid and not even acknowledging that he needs accommodations" then let that conversation lead to them getting the Special Education director to attend an iep meeting. Bring proof of diagnosis and things he struggles with to that meeting. The more they try to put this back on his shoulders, the more it really proves the point that they aren't focused on helping him, they are focused on blaming him.

I'm just suggesting this route because what you are describing sounds exactly like what my son and I went through- the approach the school took and how my son reacted to it and how I became increasingly frustrated with trying to deal with the school and hold my son accountable, all the while things were getting worse. When this action was taken and the sd started agreeing to different approaches in his iep and then (after another struggle) actually started implementing the iep strategies, we have seen changes in my son.

Follow your gut- I just wanted to throw this out to you as a possibility. Has your son had neuropsychologist testing done? Did it show the executive functioning, memory issues, or other areas of difficulty for him?

 

[house of cards]

Thanks for sharing your experience klmno, I admire what you have been able to acomplish. I have 4 more kids to get through this school district, 2 of which are in sp ed as well, so I don't want to get too adversarial if I don't have to. My first plan is to get my husband to deal with them...he has No problem being assertive, actually they find him threatening for some reason, he has a loud voice and always thinks he is right,LOL, but he is completely harmless. They usually like to see me after he visits. I've adjusted and have myself back in control, it's just that I really saw headway this summer and I got to believing I was past something that isn't past. There are so many areas to deal with, docs, school, and difficult child himself. I wish it wasn't such a fight with the docs and school.

 

[klmno]

Understood- and I can see that you need support and hugs- you are doing an astounding job. If you decide that you need some input on dealing with the school to get more supports in place for him, just let us know. There are better experts here than me. I just hate to see you and him go through this and at least in my son's case, it didn't make for an adversarial relationship. I thought it would but they ended up defending my son once his behavioral problems decreased and the other issues were then obvious. \\{{HUGS}}

 

[Wiped Out]

I'm sorry getting him what he needs at school is such a struggle. Another thing to check into is to see if your sd has parent advocates. Ours does and the one time we used one, she was very helpful.

Hugs to you, it sounds like a very difficult weekend.

 

[change]

I feel the exact same way you do a lot of the school year. I'm off in the summer and feel like I can control the situation better than anyone with my child so it's less stressful on me. Only problem is then I have "no life". It's a no win situation because I'm less stressed but somewhat isolated. When I work, I have my best friends around me every day (at work) but I'm under a lot of stress over my child most of the school year. Don't give up. I sometimes wish I could home school but know I don't have the discipline to do so and feel my child HAS GOT to learn how to get along in "the real world" with out me constantly monitoring her.

 

[house of cards]

I just reread this thread and I wanted to add that I will begin to document any times I can get the harsh "I'll fix him" appearing in print and I will print out more info from the net on BiPolar (BP), the only problem I have with that is that his present psychiatrist won't say BiPolar (BP), she will say mood disorder. I know the real solution is to change psychiatrists but I'm not upbeat about the next one being any better. While at the same place, I've had 3 psychiatrists. 1 said BiPolar (BP)...after first visit, 2 said ADHD and made us go through very hard times trialing stims, 3had to try the stims as well and then we had Major try to shut the garage door on his older brother's neck....that was the last stimulant ever. She will not diagnosis BiPolar (BP) at his age, she will give me scripts for an AP and a mood stabilizer but she isn't real comfortable with it. She will not tell me he doesn't have BiPolar (BP), I believe she has said probable once but she doesn't want to be in the position she is, she has suggested I find another place that has crisis councellers available. I don't want risk someone taking him off of the lamictal...it helps. They have so much power, on a whim they can do that and then we go through rough times until/if they decide it is needed. I don't know where people find these doctors that are over dxing BiPolar (BP). My difficult child has a 1/2 brother diagnosed BiPolar (BP), his birth mom probably is but has been diagnosed anxiety/depression, borderline traits/anti-social traits/narssistic traits and has drug/alcohol issues.

I am really beginning to think that it must be the way I communicate that has me in this half supportive enviorment with the doctors and the school.

 

[klmno]

Maybe you could try a consultation with another psychiatrist, so you don't even have to mention it to the psychiatrist you have now. Just make an appointment with another one, explain the situation, just like your last post, and get a feel for that psychiatrist's position on diagnosis'ing BiPolar (BP) in adolescents and whether or not that psychiatrist is comfortable keeping Major on the medications he's currently on that work, until they need adjusting or until the psychiatrist determines that this is definitely not BiPolar (BP) and mood stabilizers are the wrong medication. Then, you wouldn't be changing psychiatrists until you were sure that they would be picking up from where you are now and not starting over from scratch.

As far as doubting yourself for the communication problem- I'm going through the same frustration with tdocs. Don't beat yourself up- I understand your position with the sd, but my guess is that they are understanding you very well. Sometimes, people at the sd can act like they don't get it and that things have to be a certain way because they think you'll give in and just agree, which does happen with many of us. People at difficult child's school actually treat him and me a LOT better since I became assertive about his needs- I didn't become agressive, but I did start speaking up and standing up. Hang in there...

 

[TerryJ2]

Kathie, I know it's armchair quarterbacking, but just for the heck of it, what would have happened if you arranged for your difficult child to spend 1/2 hr with-your other kid's friends in the garage, and then told him his time was up, and then gave him a special reward, spent time with-him, whatever you do to transition him? IOW, approve of limited time with-them.
Would that have made it worse? It's possible he wouldn't have been able to disengage (he would have wanted to spend the entire night with-them) but then again, maybe giving him permission for a short time would have prevented the escalation.
In cases like that, I've tried it both ways just so I can see what happens. My kids are living experiments, in a sense. I cannot guess, I just have to try it and see if it works.
I agree with-other posters, that this is shades of "normal" behavior, multiplied because he is a difficult child. The part that in my humble opinion is not normal is the rage, and the extent of the rage that he threw when he was back in the house with-you. EVERY kid wants to be with-cool older siblings, especially someplace "cool" like the garage and with-"cool" older kids. I would have made a plan to make it happen, with-o encroaching too much on the older kids. Sort of like what Greene says in The Explosive Child. Then again, maybe it wouldn't have worked. As I said, it's armchair quarterbacking.

Sorry to be so forgetful, but what sorts of social anxiety do you have and what sorts of communication difficulties? I can't tell if you're just being really modest or if you really have a phobia. Believe me, we ALL have problems with-the school systems and people we feel we need to explain ourselves to. Would it be possible for you to work that into your profile at the bottom of the page? I am SO forgetful lately I want to shoot myself.

Best of luck. So sorry it's been so frustrating for you.

 

[house of cards]

If I had tried to give Major some time with his brother, I would imagine that he would have done the same thing after I had called him up. It isn't really impulse control although that might be a part of it, it is just he is in his stage when ruled don't apply to him. I can punish or not...it really doesn't matter(makes me feel better). Smallworld's advice to keep him busy beforehand might have worked, but probably not because when he gets ahold of an idea it gets stuck in his head.

It took alot of writing to get what I did get into my sig. but I do have to update it anyway. My social anxiety isn't a formal diagnosis. As a child, my mother knew I had problems going into stores alone, she made me go more often, we worked out a compromise where if I knew I had much more money then needed, I could do it.

I didn't attend any school events, didn't date until 17, had 1 close friend during high school. I quit comminity college because I was out for a few classes and the professors made a big deal of me returning.

I did get a job, I did get married. I avoid doctors (went faithfully when pregnant), I avoid people, I worked with animals. I always sent my husband to parent teacher conferences until I began to do foster care. I forced myself to attend parent/teacher meeting and found it wasn't that bad...I didn't really have to talk much just listen..I can do that.

When in social situations I stammer over my words, I forget the word I want to use, I am focused on trying to get thru the moment and not appear like a total idiot. I can't remember the names/faces of the person I talked to because I can't relax enough to do it. I make people uncomfortable to talk to me. It is uncomfortable for me to wait with the other parents to pick up their kids after preschool.

As far as communication, I use to think I was very good at it, I thought my husband has problems...but not me LOL. Lately I am thinking mabe we both do. An example would be this thread, please don't think I am mad at anyone, I'm not, but I was looking for support which I rarely do, not really advice this time. I was upset because I caused my difficult child emotion pain when I threatened to call the cops, which I still feel entittled to do and it will probably come down to that at some point. I have read and have taken alot from the advice but what really happen is my difficult child started back to his old ways and I got angry because I don't want to go back to it. Oh, well, Time for me to put on my big girl pants and get back to my real world.

I'm sorry this thread is so long, it doesn't need any more replies.

 

[busywend]

I know you said no more replies, but I wanted to be sure to tell you when I went through the IEP process the school was required to provide me with a listing of free legal access. I did find a legal advocate and it was totally free. I do not know if that is by state, but you might want to go to the Special Education forum to check.

Also, I do not see anything wrong with what you did. You were expecting him to listen to you and do as he was told. Nothing irregular there. It is just so hard to accomplish that with a difficult child, right!

HUGS! I hope things improve soonest.

 

[tinamarie1]

I've tried to homeschool him but he really learns more at school. He just refuses to let his grades show it and the school can't let go of the grades. I probably will have to homeschool him again at some point but I keep remembering that the study done from this board showed the ability to stay in school as the most predictive thing about adult success, and he just loves the social side of school and I think that is one of his strengths as well. I'm going to send my husband in to the school and try to explain yet again that they have to back off of him...but it is so opposite of what most teachers feel is right and the more committed the teacher the less they want to understand that they would help him best by just letting him absorb the knowledge and not care about the grades. I don't know how to change his attitute or the teacher's...actually I don't think I can.

I wasn't aware of a study done from this board saying that our kids are more sucessful if they stay in a school setting. hmm. Well, from my point of view, I finally made the decision to homeschool difficult child and easy child this year. My difficult child loved school too. On the good days which may have been so few and far between. The truth is, all the distractions along with how the teachers insisted on teaching him far far outweighed what he was actually getting out of school. He is not a robot like they wanted him to be and they insisted on teaching him like all the other kids. He has his own style of learning and needs breaks, and needs to exercise during the day. The school would not listen to me, all they would say was this is how every child has to be taught and this is what in their opinion worked.
If you have tried homeschooling before and it has not been sucessful, then I guess I would leave it at that? It is challenging homeschooling a difficult child, but atleast I know what he needs and can work around that.
shoot i just saw that you said no more replies. sorry.