Detach / Don't Detach

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Hound dog, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I'm not sure if I'm wavering or what here and would like your input.

    Since I let Katie have it over her last whine pity me session, we've had some major hashing out over the past 2 days. I still plan to do even more face to face hashing out as soon as I have a spare moment to wisk her away from the apartment.

    Katie still isn't being completely honest. I know it without doubt, she knows I know it. I believe it's a trust issue. But she did come clean on some things she'd always just deny before. She also asked for help, not come bring me food type help, but could you please show me how to make my money last, how to make food cheap and stretch it, and how to coupon? She admits to spending money when she shouldn't have, tried to put some back and hold on to it, but it's gone too.

    No this is not some miraculous turn around by any means. I'm not even sure if it's a teeny weeny smidgen of "oh she might be realizing there is a problem". But somewhere deep down she wants to do better. It's just does she have the gumption, the will, the ambition to do better? That, I dunno. Sure hasn't looked like it. We know she's incredibly immature, in many ways kayla has already passed her. The girl has NO self esteem, no sense of self worth, no faith in herself, nothing. She's got that victim mentality going full tilt.....although I "might" have gotten her to view it from a different perspective over the past 2 days. I know that M is abusive. I don't need to see bruises ect to prove it to me. I have a lifetime of experience dealing with his type and the abuse they dish out. I strongly suspect at the very least she's using OTC drugs as a means to escape, probably more than that, but since she is is terrified of jail, maybe not.

    I was not nice in what I had to say to her. I was open and blunt and laid it on the line. I didn't expect a response because I flat out told her none of us are going to help her until we see her actively taking steps to help herself. I figured she'd see the gig was up and that would be that. Instead......she reached out a teeny weeny bit, ever so barely. Even so, she has a long way to go on the opening up and being honest thing. But still she hung in there with me to hash it out to a middle ground so to speak. But we will still have a long talk in person as well. I'll try to help her stretch whatever money she has and teach her what she should have learned forever ago. She learns or not, that part is up to her. It will have to wait though until easy child is in her boot because at the moment I don't have the time to spare.

    So. That is that part of it. I'm not expecting much of anything to come of that part really. What she needs is a therapist and probably a psychiatrist, not just me trying to help, but I doubt I'll ever get her to agree to that. So I'm not like all excited or anything. A bit surprised, that's about it.

    Now for whatever reason, my grandkids are going hungry. It's not THEIR fault their going without. According to katie M has been trying the food bank since last week hoping they'll have food for him to bring home with no success. Well, that doesn't surprise me at all. They've been bare bone since before katie and M even came to town, begging for donations that they aren't getting because to large a part of the population is in exactly the same boat. Those that are working and doing ok are helping family who are out of work and may or may not be getting unemployment.

    I'm picking up kayla tomorrow before I go to easy child's so she can spend the afternoon with us and visit. I'm sure I'll get an ear full while she's here and more truths will come to light.

    But I keep staring at my pantry which is full. The shelves in my laundry room, which are full. And it's making me feel like the backside of one of Star's donkey friends. I can share some of my stock pile without it hurting me much. I mean, seriously, I have more than 20 boxes of pasta alone sitting on those shelves. While I can't feed them for a month by a long shot, my conscience won't let me dwindle down the stock pile that far if I tried, I can give them some until maybe the pantry has some to give away.

    Then bff pops into mind. And the whole detachment question thing is going again. If I give them food because they blew all the money to buy their own or did/did not do things to keep their income coming in......what did they learn? Nothing. Someone will rescue them. Ok. So that would be easy if it were just katie and M. But those kids didn't spend the money and they sure as hades didn't ask for two overgrown children with major difficult child issues to be their parents.

    Then I think. Kayla and her brothers, well kayla for sure, knows that 1. I have food (I always have food even if it's odd things to her) 2. I know their going hungry 3. I'm not helping her or her brothers knowing their going hungry.

    And well gee. What sort of Nana does that make me anyway? What am I teaching her about family and about helping others? Because while there is this idiotic Mom part of me that has as yet to totally give up on katie for some illogical reason, kayla is truly the one I'm trying to help here while I have the chance. Alex just doesn't function at that high a level right now and Evan is still too little to understand.

    So. Yeah. That's where I'm at folks. I'm standing right on the line. And some of you think I've got this detachment thing down soooo good, yeah right. phht.

    Katie has not asked. She's not even asked for a ride to the food pantry. I've not offered. If she had asked, I'd probably have balked and wouldn't be having this debate with myself that has already given me 2 sleepless nights.

    And before someone says that would be grounds for cps to pick them up.......well, if it is then about 1/3 the counties kids would join them. Not gonna happen, not around here anyway. Not at this point in time.

    I won't even consider it until spending the day with kayla tomorrow.....I'm sure she'll let things slip, just as she did at the baby shower. Someday Nana is going to have to teach her to stop talking a mile a minute without thinking about what's coming out of her mouth first, after the situation with her difficult child parents is resolved.

    While we're on the subject, I got school supplies at staples last week for a steal. They're doing it again next week. Walgreens has bookbags for 3.99, which I can get free with my reward bucks. I got most of them mainly because it didn't cost me anything and well you can always find uses for it. The kids have nothing for school which starts in 4 wks. If she can't feed them I don't see her providing school supplies. However she IS keeping her rent paid, so I guess that is one step in the right direction. School "might" help them some with this, then again they might not as there are a LOT of kids in the same situation and the numbers are going up not down.

    I finally have kayla and Alex both looking at school as a positive for the first time. Kayla is determined to make straight A's from here on out and is cautiously asking about college. So I did tell easy child tonight I think I'm going to help some with the school supplies as long as I can continue to keep the cost to next to nothing. You can't learn if you don't have the supplies to make learning possible. And this one I really don't care if it's enabling or not. Because I once was that kid who never ever had what I needed for school and I remember all too well how hard that was. And I want them to have a chance to succeed. So I'm ok with that. I've thought it through inside and out and I can handle it. They'll have the very basics, but they'll have something to work with. That is directly a gift to them, as I know katie and M would just rely on the school to pick up the slack and not get them anything anyway like they've done all along.

    Food, on the other hand, katie and M will benefit from as well, so is not quite the same thing. Know what I mean??

    So? What do you think? Grandkids really muck the waters up when it comes to detachment in a huge way. So how do I clear out the muck and still manage to live with myself??
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    My vote? Teach Kayla how to balance the budget and have Katie put her in charge of the money. Give Kayla the survival skills for making money and food stretch.
  3. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Hound, I don't know what to say. It is a horribly messed up no good situation.

    My first question is are you absolutely sure they are going hungry? Beyond a doubt? I would go inspect the kitchen, give ideas on how to use what they have.

    If they are? They would get boring staples that I had A LOT of extra of, as well as recipes to go with them so katie knows how to use them, as from what you have said she is not much in the cooking dept. I am thinking pasta's and sauce, tuna casserole, oatmeal, canned veggies, nothing tasty but it will keep their bellies full.

    And if they did not have the kids? They would not get anything. I really really feel for those kids.

    And take this advice with tons of grains of salt, I have in no way been there done that, nor have I ever even been close!
  4. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I agree. From what you tell us about Kayla, she can do this. The only fear would be what would M do if she didn't give him "his" money.

    Can you take the kids for lunch 1-2 times a week until school starts? (Just a picnic near their house so it stays cheap.)

    Once school starts, at least you will know that they are getting the free lunch (does your district do free breakfast?). Depending on their teacher, you might be able to send a snack in for them as well (our school will allow you to send 2 weeks of snacks in if you provide a labeled school box and what you send in is individually sealed so it doesn't attract bugs).
  5. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    HaoZi I plan to involve kayla in the whole process of teaching katie......even if katie flakes out on me and changes her mind. I'll just pick kayla up and take her shopping with me and easy child so she can learn.

    cm, pretty much I'm sure, at the most they don't have much to eat. Kayla kept hinting to it during the baby shower. But that is why I'm waiting until after spending the day with kayla. If they're doing without, she'll tell me, along with everything else her parents have been up to as far as the money is concerned.

    Yeah, was certainly thinking boring bulky type foods. I have plenty of those as they tend to store the longest. While staring at my pantry it hit me that they don't have a clue how to make mac and cheese from scratch, or rice, or heaven knows what else. Even when M attempted to show me how great a cook he was, 80 percent of the meal was prepackaged foods. You can't do prepackaged much when you're hurting that much they're too expensive unless you find a great sale. I've got tons of pasta/sauces, rice, beans, hamburger helper (out the wazoo been huge sales on it) chef boyardee coming out my ears (same reason, been getting it for less than 30 cents/can). Wouldn't be anything fancy nor snack foods as I don't buy those much myself. The only "fancy' thing would be hotdogs as I have them also coming out of my ears. husband and Travis are sick of them, and of looking at them. Hot dogs have been on sale super cheap for a month or more and I just keep right on buying them. lol They freeze well.

    I'm sure not knowing how to cook, and I don't care what M claims the man can't cook, is not helping. I'm going to try to write down how I cook different things, which will be interesting because I rarely use recipes and I don't measure much because I've done it for so long, not to mention I was taught to cook that I've taught my girls. Katie stopped coming to visit right at the time I'd have started teaching her to cook. And biomom does NOT know how to cook. The woman can burn a hot dog. Her idea of cooking was Mc Donalds. ugh

    I don't plan on giving them a ton of stuff. Just maybe enough for a few days and see what happens from there. It's not like I'm rolling in money myself. I wouldn't even have this stuff to give if it weren't for the couponing.
  6. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

  7. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Gosh you're stuck. I get the grandkids and the whole "why isn't nanna helping me, I'm hungry" feeling, and I get the "no way jose, these kids PARENTS need to get it TOGETHER". The conflict, regardless of detachment (and you are a pro, even now!) is going to happen from time to time.

    I don't know if this is possible, but I had an idea. So she must be getting social assistance or food stamps right? So if she tells you HONESTLY what there is in the budget (perhaps through assisting her in helping her set a budget up as she asked), what about getting her to put the food/household budget into four envelopes (these wouldn't include spending money if there is any left). One for each week until her next payments or stamps or whatever. If it can't be you, then another trustworthy adult (Does your social service or mental health departments have Trustees?) takes the months envelops. A day with a set period of time is prearranged to assist her in her shopping outing for the week. It is up to her to build a menu for the 7 days and use local flyers to budget her needs to fit her funds for the week, hopefully getting a few sale items extra that can go to a emergency cupboard in her apartment. I know this takes time from someone else to get her out shopping for the week and isn't practical in all situations. But if it could be arranged, she'd be FORCED to search the flyers, build the list, not overspend, use any savings towards extras to stock up instead of blowing it, thus leaving a build up of extras for a rainy day, say birthdays when she doesn't have to buy for that week, lives off extras, and has birthday or christmas money or back to school money etc).
    I have a friend who many years ago had a trustee. It works different based on the personal need. My friend had a worker she saw each Friday. The worker took her first week of month to pay ALL bills, then sit down and divide remaining funds and calculate how to fit in extras (winter clothes for kids etc). Each week my friend had to go get her money. Eventually they didn't accompany her anymore to get her groceries, but she'd need to provide reciepts the following week to show she did right with the money, otherwise, back to a escort again. This was done to ensure her kids had food and needs met. Eventually she became a pro and adept at her own finances. I had heard a couple of years back via grapevine she returned to a trustee but haven't asked her so not sure. I do know for sure that many years went by that she was very efficient at running her household.

    Bottom line is, they may be at poverty levels, but that household has funds available to help the kids eat and its their JOB. She may just need to accept that she can't be responsible so until she learns good habits for spending and decision making, someone is along for the ride AND in control of funds to a extent, to ensure she spends them well and for the right things.

    If that is possible, I'd see if you can't get her set up with something like this. Certainly the kids would love mom coming home each week with enough food until next grocery shop.

    As for school things, if you can do it, nothing wrong in my opinion with gramma giving a gift to her grandkids. I'd probably be doing the same thing.
  8. Cheerwyn

    Cheerwyn New Member


    I am a longtime lurker, so I hope you all don't mind me butting in here, LOL.

    While it makes sense on some level to have Kayla be responsible for this kind of thing (and Lord knows she would be more responsible than the "adults" in the situation), it's putting a heavy burden on a child who likely already feels like she has to take care of every one else. One of my good friends was in a similar situation. While she rose to the challenge and did the best she could, it is also is something that she carries with to this day (now in her late 30's). She had to shop for and feed her younger siblings and still struggles with having to have done that.
  9. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    She doesn't really have that many monthly bills to pay, does she? Working out a budget for her shouldn't be that complicated, with a little help to teach her how to grocery shop and how to use coupons. She needs to learn the difference between the things she "wants" and the things she "needs". Plain common sense should tell her not use her grocery money to buy silly things.

    Still, M is the unknown quantity in this deal. All the budgeting and couponing in the world isn't going to do them any good if he's blowing all of "their" money on drugs and electronic goodies while his children are going hungry! Did Katie mention his part in all of this? I couldn't stand to see a grandchild going hungry either and I too would give them enough staples to tide them over ... this one time! It's not something you can keep up though. And even though Kayla would probably be a lot more responsible about money than her parents, that's an awful burden to place on a little girl who has had way too much put on her already. And there's the very real possibility it could lead to a lot of conflict with her father since he seems to see all the money as HIS! I have no doubt that M is abusive, as well as very controlling and manipulative. Is there any chance that Katie might be willing to talk to someone from a domestic violence organization? There is no charge and those people are usually very good at what they do and are very dedicated. They might just be able to get through to her and make her see things a little differently, maybe get rid of some of that "victim mentality" she has.
  10. keista

    keista New Member

    Poor Kayla does have to step up to the plate, and Nanna IS helping every possible way she can.

    Kayla sounds pretty mature, and might be able to understand that you TRIED teaching her mom how to be responsible when she was little, but her mom refused to learn the lessons. You are still trying to teach her mom how to be responsible, and just giving her money or food is not the way to do it. Kids are in the unfortunate position of having to deal with the parents they were born to. Their only hope is to work hard at school and become responsible adults, and change their own lives when they are old enough.

    In the meantime, feed the kids directly as often as possible. As JJJ suggested, do picnic lunches or some other inexpensive outings.

    If Katie is asking/begging you for practical help, she may FINALLY be ready to join the ranks of responsible adulthood. It is possible that even though motivated, she will not be capable of managing a budget on her own. As long as she recognizes that fact and continues to ask for positive assistance, give, give, give, and yeah, get Kayla and the other kids involved so they learn what they need to, and can help mom out. No, kids don't ask to be born into such a situation, but they were, and this is part of their life's journey.
  11. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Well, honestly I wouldn't put the burden of kayla actually handling the money on her. M wouldn't stand for it anyway. In his opinion any money is HIS, just as donna said, to do with as he pleases. But I want her involved so she can learn what she needs to learn to be a responsible adult because at this point katie most certainly can't teach her and she's already 11. I want to teach her how to shop for bargains and stash away money for things you might need or want later down the road ect.

    M is the "wild card". Katie refuses to admit that he controls the cash, but she won't deny it either. She avoids answering when I try to pin her down. Since she doesn't like to walk just hit me that he's probably doing the bulk of the shopping. (ok now I feel a bit stupid for not thinking of that already) When M shops he doesn't pay attention to price, brand, or half the time even what he's picking up. Kayla is usually sent along to try to get him to come back with the stuff on katie's list. Even then if he's like he was here, 90 percent of the time......well let's just say if he's been doing the bulk of the shopping then I KNOW where all the foodstamps went, and he won't take back stuff she didn't want or won't use.

    As for cash, I don't know if she can keep it away from him. I do know that to prevent him from spending the cash for the bus tickets here that she kept it in her bra until the moment they paid for the tickets. And she has told me he just goes out and spends it without a care in the world. "future" means nothing to him. He lives in the "now" totally. Once easy child is out of the cast I can either take katie along with us or do a seperate trip with her to shop.

    The trustee thing would be great, except I don't know if anyone around here does it, and as long as M is in the picture there is no way he'd let her go for it even if she was interested. I do that sort of thing for husband. He pays whatever bills are to come out of each check and hands me the rest. I keep it on my person 24/7 and stretch it until the next check. He's a ton better on his spending but he doesn't totally trust himself.

    Something interesting I've noted. Around xmas katie got new glasses paid for by medicaid, which she badly needed. Shortly after M "moved in" to the apartment she gave me some silly excuse to how they got broken. I didn't buy it at the time but let it go, she could still use them but the one ear piece was missing. She'd been spending quite a bit of time with us during the move in and easter and such. Then......we do this 2 day hard core rap session of clearing the air.......and now they're so broken she can't even use them. Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences. Every time she starts to reach out she suddenly switches gears or "gets sick" or whatever, but something happens. I don't think M is pleased with her reaching out again. You can't read to learn coupons and such if you can't see. But at least she didn't back out on me picking her up sunday morning to discuss this face to face. And I told her to call the Lions Club tomorrow and ask them to help her get a new pair of glasses.

    I've tried domestic violence before when she came the first time. She went to a couple of sessions and stopped. Her counselor used to call the house trying to get her to go back. Right now she'd shoot it down.

    Picnics with the kids is a good idea. I may do that too. Can give them some fun time at the park as well and us some bonding time.
  12. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    Do you think she's aking for help couponing and stuff because she thinks that's what you want to hear? She wants you to react kindly to her, so if she says, "Yes, please show me." you'll be nice to her. If M's doing the shopping, there's no point. Can you go over there, and call CPS if there's no food? It's like the money is M's spending money, and food has to come from another source other than his "spending money". Since he doesn't like to "waste" his money on food, he's counting on the food bank, and you possibly. Don't do it, then he'll never buy anything to for them to eat. For so long the food came from shelters, they're accustomed to getting it handed to them from somewhere. His family is not a priority, she can't SEE without those glasses, how can he be so cruel??? Then again, that may be a good reason to give them food. He's so cruel that he's not allowing for them to eat. Although I would be annoyed, my heart wouldn't allow them not eat and would probably give them all I could. I think this situation is far past enabling.
  13. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    She's gotta get rid of M somehow.
    You know what *might* be an option? Get one of those fireproof electronic safes to which you, easy child, Nicole, and maybe some professional helper for Katie knows the combination. If Katie and Kayla don't know it, M can't threaten them into opening it. Have someone take Katie and Kayla shopping and the food stamp card goes back in the box, too.
  14. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    Feed the grand kids and give them what school supplies you can. Teach them they can have a better life and how to take care of their own things.

    It's a matter of right and wrong not a matter of enabling. in my humble opinion.
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    If M is as emaciated as you say, go ahead and give them ALL that you can. He will then spend even MORE on his drugs or ho's or whatever he is blowing it on, and it will NOT go for food, and he WILL expire soon. This is COLD and I AM aware of it. Make the food stuff he will NOT eat, like oatmeal, beans, rice, whatever. Hopefully you can give stuff M wouldn't eat anyway. Then he would get sicker and the problem would be solved permanently.

    yes, in situations like this I CAN, and AM a *itch. This is just the most practical solution. Make sure katie tells you,even in a roundabout way, if he is on drugs. Otherwise he will hog all the food and get healthy again.

    Are your schools not doing free lunch for kids in the summer? It is a HUGE program here and our district does NOT pay for most of it. Not even the bus for the transp they added this year.
  16. round & round we go

    round & round we go New Member

    My heart goes out to you. I am battling sort of the same battle with my 23 yr. old who has two babies and another one on the way(the birth control shot did not work as I made her get it, even took her and watched that needle go in.errrr). So hard knowing what to do when there are grandchildren involved. You're not gonna sit by and watch those babies strave but then again the more we help the children, the more we are actually helping the parents. My daughter's baby daddy lives with them and has never had a job, nor looks for one ever since they have been together. I have diapered, wiped, rash guarded those babies butts. Sometimes hard to pull off since I live on a limited income but it had to be done. Daughter does work a full time job but it's just not enough for a family of 4 soon to be 5.
    I do go get my grandbabies as much as possible and take them out to eat and occasionally will bring my daughter with me but baby daddy...oh no I didn't birth his sorry tail and I am not raising, nor feeding that lazy thing. Matter of fact he is not even allowed on my property other then to carry my grandbabies to the door and walk right back out the gate.
    Not sure what the right answer is or even if there is a right answer. Like I said I am currently fighting the same battle and the only winners I want their to be....are the grandbabies.
  17. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I was wondering about the school's free lunch programs, too. In many areas, that runs all year. Some schools even provide backpacks of food for the kids to take home to get them through the weekend.

    In regards to the rest? The only realistic thing I could see you doing in the name of "helping" is offering to hold the foodstamps/card and or the grocery money. Then you could take them to the store in the name of "teaching". OK - here's your $75 for this week....and we're going to go look at the ads and decide how to spend it.

    Other than that - feed the grands at your house. Invite them for "picnics" and "cookouts" (grill those hotdogs!). You can even tell katie and M that you are doing it to give THEM a break...since you understand how tired, sick, stressed (whatever) they are.

    And as guilty as you feel - you KNOW that Kayla does not blame you...

  18. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    The schools used to offer free breakfast and lunch year around for kids on the program. This has always been a poor area. When Nichole was in hs they stopped it. They do offer breakfast and lunch when school is in session. They'd stopped the breakfast for a while, but had to reinstate it. I only know they reinstated it because Alex's teacher told me the kids were using it. She always cut him slack for being late to class because he was eating breakfast when the bell rang.

    Well, enabling or not, I can't keep them in a supply of food all the time. I don't have the money to do that even if I wanted to. She's very lucky I happen to be able to help now, because that is mostly due to what has been on sale the past weeks and the prices involved let me buy much more than normal. Somehow I'll have to drill that into her head when we do the face to face talk.

    upallnight, yup, I'm fully aware katie could just be saying what I she thinks I want to hear as far as learning anything. But as long as she's willing to learn, fake or not, I'll be willing to try to teach. Even if she's faking it something is bound to rub off eventually. I take whatever katie says with a grain of salt.

    Susie LOL I do NOT think you're cold. I've prayed for M to get out of the picture for a decade at least, I don't much care how that happens. A side note on him, eating doesn't seem to cause him to gain weight, he was still losing when they were eating well at the shelters. He'd lost at least 20 plus pounds from oct through dec alone. Between dec and now it's been at least another 20-30 lbs. The kids gained weight fast eating my food, katie didn't do so bad herself. He didn't gain an ounce. I just hope whatever karma is biting him in the rear works fast.

    Sometimes I think this is my own karma. mother in law used to give husband money constantly, thinking she was helping me and the kids, when in fact she was only enabling him because I rarely knew he was even borrowing from her and we did without anyway. While I understood to some extent that our kids complicated matters for her, and that she had a heart of gold and would help anyone in need, a part of me was furious with her for enabling husband to steal family funds to do with as he pleased for so many many years. Now? I so totally get it.
  19. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Welcome "out", Cheerwyn. Glad to see you. Actually I was thinking the same thing. In such a dysfunctional "family" it might really add pressure to the child's life. I guess it's a toss up but somehow with such strange family dynamics in her home she "could" end up burdened beyond her capacity by even contributing adult ideas. It's a strange situation and sounds like a darned if you do and darned if you don't time.

    I was also wondering if she is mature enough to safely learn how to cook with her Grandma. If she is coordinated and bright it "might" be possible for her to learn how to cook rice, beans, etc. at Grandma's house for fun. My gd's enjoy spending time in the kitchen with me alone...BUT...even sharing cooking might not be right for certain kids. My youngest gd and one gs are too impulsive for me to feel safe about them cooking alone. The lazy parents might like it, however, since they don't do much. Quandry. on the other hand, if it is workable, she could learn a basic or two and then be allowed to take those items home with her. Kinda like arts and crafts? DDD
  20. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Lisa...mattsmom said something about trustee's and it made something go ding ding ding in my head. Katie shouldnt be the payee on this check at this point anymore. Seriously. She cannot be keeping the required receipts for SS because we all know she isnt spending that money simply on whichever child is getting it. Call social security and report this and trust me, it will get fixed much faster than cps or anything else. Social security is a whole different system than local county systems. They will set her up with either a family member to be her representative payee or a (dang cant remember the name) something like social services to be the payee. Maybe you or easy child or Nichole could be the payee. It wont be M because the person cannot have a criminal record.