Did not think I would be back...

[Confused]

Hi everyone,
Thanks again for those who gave me support before. Its been since August since I wrote thinking I don't need this site and its ALL my fault. Well, I still think that in many ways, but, only some my fault. My kids are spoiled from my dad, grandpa and whenever their dad feels like seeing them. Its hard for me to stick with their timeouts, take away privileges and such because of this and to keep peace. I do believe someone told me in one of my past posts that some of this attitude can be hereditary from their dad. (Long,Long history of issues with all males in his family, not sure of females? Im no angel though either, but not that bad either! I do not like to blame others for anything though and feel bad even saying it/they have an effect. As for me, no weight loss,still stress eating, and sick for over month and half(bronchitis and colds) and my father and grandfather's health is blah. So back to my kids. As of today, they still demand and argue everything. My son started to hit us again,slam cabinets and the refrigerator door. In the stores, he is a nightmare to take, as well as getting him ready or to study. Just today, in two different stores, he thought it was funny to demand or just grab stuff he wanted even though we discussed it before we went. Running and hiding and when we barely put our hand on his to guide him with us, he screamed don't touch me! Don't follow me, MOVE!!!Oh yes I get what I want, and when we were looking at clothes, he wanted P.J. which he didn't need -he has so so many,- he yelled he wanted to try them on cause his sister was trying on regular shirts. I told him " no one tries on PJ.s honey, its like a game to guess your size or what we have at home" WOW!!! Did that end a battle, so I got the car keys ,told my dad im taking the kids to the car and he wouldn't leave. So I told him nicely lets go, he said "no, i will hit and kick people all here. I then told him I would get the manager and security to come to too him and by that time my dad was done and we left. "His speech is still in progress, and probably has another year or two to go. His report cards are graded by:E for Excellent which he gets for class discussions and asking/answering questions. G-Good for religion,P.E. and misc. S-Satisfactory and N-Needs Improvement. Well, he can only read a few words because he will not listen to us, the teacher, or practice like he should. He Needs improvement on finishing his work as well. He has had some good weeks with no warnings or times outs, but he get them for not listening/settling down etc. So I'm proud its not all the time! Things with their dad has gotten bad again. He is now on his 4th wife ( I kid you not, its in open court records "marriage" for 3 different states) No one believes me!Not only did he marry again, I found out through the court records for now the second time. I confronted him on the IM ,with still no name ,no new address in his town, no new phone number,and we are suppose to go on a planned trip with him in a few weeks,and i said it wasn't right to bring her when we/kids don't know her for a major vacation, and all he can say to me is "chill, why you so upset? its been hectic here and later when he finally had a so called conversation with me, all he said was" u should of done everything i said and I could of seen us married,and that the next time he sees me it will be for some um.. "all day and night fun",. Oh and kept changing his story,first he could make it, then he had to work, now i found out hes taking off to somewhere else for a vacation the same time we had it planned with him. Uggh, the kids are so confused.I had to keep asking him, or he never would of told me, we would of shown up and him not be there! So, the good news out of all this is that my Aunt and I are speaking again! My grandpa said hes doing to much but school and one night of practice,and one time on the weekend game is not that much. So I will have a better fit schedule, like long walks, games outdoors and so on. Getting him to sit and listen, and practice is another issue! Well, I hope all you here are doing better and to the new comers, you are in great hands here! So sorry its so long!

 

[buddy]

Hi there, I think I joined after you were last here, so sorry I am not caught up.

Sounds like your son has more than just being spoiled, kids dont just "not pay attention" on purpose and choose not to learn on purpose at that age. (well I am sure there is the very rare child) but his developing all these "coping" mechanisms to fix his own world and get what he wants through negative means, usually means he does not have the skills to do better.

Has he had an evaluation of any kind? Do you have insurance? Can you take him to a neuropsychologist for a neuropsychologist evaluation? I can tell you personally, that there is nothing worse than looking back and finding out that you missed something that could have made a world of difference. If you find it is all environment, being spoiled, etc... that is fine, then there is still a problem and you need to have it addressed professionally, just handling it through discipline will not really fully work. It certainly DOES make a difference to have the adults on the same page. The longer you let a behavior go on before the consequence (or if you give in... the reward) the longer it will happen each time..... They develop internal clocks and know they can keep it up. Believe me, I have left FULL carts of groceries and bags of things I wanted to buy and walked out of a store with my son. I dont care how loud he got, no way he was going to get anything when he acted like that and he often had legitimate medical reasons for his meltdowns but I was not taking the chance that it would become a voluntary behavior (which has happened for some things) because he doesnt know about the medical part, he just knows how he feels and how he is trying to survive in this world.

Just some thoughts, Sounds like you are doing this alone and with people who are not fully supporting your desire to change parenting styles so I feel for you. As one mom to another with a child who has violent rages, please seek every ave. now because they often dont grow out of it,but they do GROW and even if mentally at a younger age emotionally, they are looked at as thugs and many folks do not understand. Plus the obvious, they CAN do damage, serious damage.

My thoughts and care are with you.... luv, Buddy

 

[Confused]

Buddy,
Hello! Ok, the run down is it was a rough pregnancy,he was 4 weeks premature but weighed 6 pounds and came home the next day. Only a light case of Jaundice, and was normal up until a 1 1/2-2 years his attitude started. His speech was bad, he had bowed legs and wore leg braces for a year, started ECI for speech when he was 2. Gave a break because I did not like the school district telling me he was "disabled" because of his braces, which were able to come of if need be, he was not potty trained(they wouldn't take him anyway cause of not being toilet trained) and because he was screaming he wanted to play with the toys there when we left. I started him back in Speech later that year from a regular therapist office. Ok, during this time, he was having violent tantrums lasting up to three hours, started biting himself leaving his teethmarks on his arms with bruises-also on us. He would get mad over me moving his cup over 2 inches to clean the counter, knowing I was cleaning,watching me the whole time. He can get mad over something simple, has to remake his food if we didn't do it right or something. For two years I talked to his Dr, the Dr at the night clinic if we went, teachers, family etc. They said be firm, your the parent its normal. Well, Another Dr that his regular Dr works with, listened to me and sent me to a psychiatric Dr? ( Never found his card-he was awful so i wanted to forget him). Anyway, on the first visit, he said, "Sounds like Oppositional Defiance Disorder with some Anxiety" . Yeah, we are getting help! Ok, next visit, we showed his arms again,talked about his behavior and he stuck with the same diagnosis and said" possibly another issue-maybe we will try a a low dose to get him to listen to stop the violence". Ok, third time we were there, he did that play cognitive test, he passed flying colors! He came out and said" Your son is a very smart boy, let him grow and I honestly cant remember the other, -I have to look at my past posts-maybe get him doing things? He was in all day school, then that didn't help, so we added a one day a week -30 minute sport practice with one game a week, still didn't help, continued to take him on outings,play dates, in our yard etc but that wasn't enough? So I started to cry and the Dr said" You need the help not your son! Well after 2 years of violence and no control over him, ya,I cried! My daughter was even trying to tell the Dr her brother was not normal, and the Dr or the Pediatrician did not want to hear it or watch the video of him in his tantrum! He even hit the gerbil cages and threatened them before. Not recently thank goodness!He calmed down for a few months,-violence only which was so nice! Ok, for insurance, my kids have medicaid, Im staring to look for a job again and in school, again! The speech therapist said he can and does understand how to explain himself.My family wants me to lay down the law, but when I punish them they throw tantrums, gets my family upset to hear their ongoing rage or complaining.My grandfather says let him play outside in the front yard and down the street and shut the door, for real! He says he should of gone out by himself a t least a year ago like my neighbors kids! A 5 then 4 year old? No way! Thanks, hope u are doing well.

 

[Confused]

oops im tired, i re-read it and i meant no violence( only verbal) at that time

 

[buddy]

Wow, you sound like you are in this alone! When typical parenting doesn't work then we really have to look elsewhere. If I would have heard the ODD ****-ola at that age I woudl have laughed in this guys face. I am an early interventionist and even with that, it was hard for me to accept some things. I knew that he probably had delays due to a brain mass/surgery. But when i adopted him, I was told he had a great prognosis. I thought (wonderful me, lol) that I had all the connections and experience to get him thru this.


The self injury, rigid thinking (the movement of the cup, etc) wanting certain things HIS way and only his way, etc... can be many things, usually the "ODD" is just that they dont have the coping ability, often due to a neurological issue. This level of behavior can be due to several conditions, I am most familiar with autism and kids with autism are often cognitively FINE (as your son is) and even very bright (though many are delayed too, mine is but has great strenghs). They can't be in groups well, they have a hard time playing with others well, are overwhelmed when there are changes in the environment or schedule.

medications help some things but it is really matching the teaching and parenting to the learning style of the child. If you can get a neuropsychologist evaluation, those are the people who connect behaviors to how the brain works. They can help you sort through what might be going on and get past the snap judgement labels that doctors often give.

(another option is a developmental pediatrician, there is one mom here who is referred to that kind of setting, I have a pediatrician. who is similar to a developmental peditrician, and also use neuro psychology, I also have my son go to private therapies...on and off thru his life)

As I said, I get how hard it is when you are doing it mostly alone.... and I realy hope for you that someone will help you sort this out. It is really unfair to a child to be mislabeled, and it will happen in the schools even if you dont want them to label him.... the coffee room talk will be that he is a behavior problem (at best). It is so much better to have a correct diagnosis/label.

Of course you know your child, and if this seems off to you, please ignore, it is only out of support I share because now being further down the road, it is hard to feel regrets. the ONE thing that is undesputed, early intervention is correlated with better long term outcomes. You still have an amazing chance to have him not develop more mal-adaptive behavior. Strict parenting only works if the child can process it and is not wired in a different way. I have said a million times, if it would work, it would have worked LONG ago. IT only takes a few weeks to months to tell if a behavior intervention is working. IF you are being strict and he is still overwhelmed and having meltdowns/tantrums he needs a different method of intervention. Probably more to do with arranging his world to match how he sees things (nto sayng give in, I mean like for my son, I know first times of doing things is hard, changing without a lot of prep is hard, etc. He is also more visual when upset...so we write the ruies or changes down... like 3 minutes and we leave... or a little story about going out to the store, in pictures only when he was young). He also needed testing for how he used his fine motor skills and visual processing... (Occupational Therapy) which would maybe help with your son too, if he is struggling with reading/writing in school.... Please dont assume it is willfull until you check it out (if you haven't aleady that is) because again, it feels AWFUL to find out you were punishing something that ended up being beyond their ability to control. They often do have on purpose inappropriate behaviors, but they are in response to not being ABLE to do better. Does that make sense? This is NOT a criticism, please know I am just sharing from my past regrets and having been in similar shoes. You have my full support in any decision because YOU live with him.

 

[SRL]

How long has it been since either of them have seen that pysch?

 

[BusynMember]

Have you ever taken him for a complete evaluation? I don't think he doesn't learn because he has "too much going on." Many kids have much more going on. He may have some learning problems or other disorders that are making it hard for the little guy to both behave and to learn. in my opinion he needs interventions at school. If he is at a private school though they don't have to do it. Public schools do.

Do you live with your family? If so, although I'm sure they are VERY nice, I would stop listening to their opinion of w hat is wrong and take him for testing and help by experts.

Keep us posted

 

[Confused]

Hi buddy,
No worries you have great advice! The other members have mentioned Autism, but he I believe he is not as the Dr's. They say nothing is wrong but my parenting skills. So, I know I have tried the timeouts,counting,warnings,games to get him to clean up or go places,study etc. I have tried taking away his extreme favorite activity:the outdoors! I do not get mad with his grades, I just talk to him in his terms, "show him in pretend play" to raise hands, how to answer, what to do in different situations. Also, with his anger I tried the screaming into a pillow,color,dance, clean,how to "express his feelings verbally in instead of using his hands". The Dr's just said he is also all boy and just needs more time. He does not bite himself anymore( yeah!) He does play well and is fine in large or small groups. He does not like changes unless it benefits him! So basically, I have to wait it out and see if he gets "bad" at school. They want the teachers word for it not mine. My family supports me,but we all have different views on how to raise the. Yes, I live with them. Those were good ideas with your son, your son is lucky to have you! His Pre-K teacher he acted well with, so no issues, his Kinder teacher now as I mentioned he gets warnings/timeouts. They have worked with many types of kids and can handle him, but he has never been violent or nasty talking at school,but we do work together.

 

[Confused]

Hi SRL,
Its been a while since I talked with you! Hope you doing better as well, I need to read the posts here and reply soon! My daughter never had that appointment with the psychiatric but went to talk about her brothers behavior if needed. It has been since April or May when I joined here. He did calm down and only was verbal and not listening( the usual but no violence) for the summer but as slowly started back up. The Dr's don't want to hear it. It is not the school because he loves going and being with his friends and teachers.

 

[Confused]

Hi MidwestMom,
Its been a while since I talked to you to! Hope things are better for you to! Yes, he is still in a private school, but I wouldn't have it any other way. He doesnt act up at school the way he does at home or in stores. Thats why everyone says its all my fault. He did get this way with my sister and brother-in-law before they moved, as well started a little bit with his dad. But there are days that as soon as he walks down his school hall, you can see in his face, he has anger built up and gets attitude like don't touch me while walking to the car, then in the car he lets lose.. So even if he gets angry at school, he hasn't shown it yet. His teachers are very good with him and we work together on his not finishing work/talking during class. They do keep an eye for him. Yes, still live with family and they support me, ( well, except how to handle it) but we all gave up fighting with the Dr's because the Dr's say until the teachers complain they don't want to help,its my fault only.

 

[TeDo]

Then you need different doctors. There IS something wrong and you are not the problem. You have other adults in the house that spoil them so the kids are "trained" to do certain things to get what they want. It works for the others so why not on you? Because you are doing the parentling the RIGHT way. You seriously need to find a new psychiatrist. For evaluation purposes, a neuropsychologist would be better but I know how difficult that can be. You need one that will LISTEN to YOU. Your son holds it together at school but then takes it out at home because it is safe there. As for the males in the dad's side of the family, behavior like this CAN be learned but since your son doesn't spend much time (if any) with him it tells me it is something hereditary.

Glad you came back but very sorry you had to.

 

[buddy]

It is great school is not a big issue right now. One thing I will share as a case manager for kids for years... when they are little the demands for socialization are smaller and even in strong identification areas like where I live, private doctors and schools miss the really high functioning and boarder line kinds of kids until little by little the demands increase. I would just encourage you to keep an open mind so that he does not have to suffer from self esteem issues if he is expected to do things he can't do.

In the mean time, YOU!!!! I do not like your doctor. I think to say it is all your fault (and it seems you may be buying into that???) is not fair since it is clear you are trying to do so many things. (smile)

I suspect people here have mentioned the book "the explosive child" to you before? If you have not read it, it is really good and helps with kids where traditional parenting does not work. It really is different. And for us, it has been a huge help even with my son's special needs. It is not a special needs book per se. It is for just what I said, kids who dont respond well to traditional methods of parenting.

I would also say that for kids who have "issues" that overlap with Autism, (like the on and off transition thing, and that is typical....transitions go smoother if it is their agenda, lol) there are some great idea books..... I use books from different disabilities for kids without those labels because the ideas work! if you look at some books about Asperger's syndrome.... these are smart kids who have some rigid ideas and tricky moments. There are methods there that can help many kids and my sisters use them with their sons...one has one with anxiety and one with adhd/organization issues. Lots of ideas for preparing kids for transitions and handling meltdowns. etc.... can't hurt to try since the things and guilt from the doctors is not helpful!


Keep hanging in there! I would still suggest the neuropsychologist evaluation, what can it hurt??? Doctors are not special needs diagnosticians. I have worked in this field for a LONG time and I promise you that there is intensive training and workshops and grants in special education geared at inservice and training for pediatricians and family physicians (even neuro's) because they miss early diagnosis so much of the time. Just please keep open to options, you do not deserve blame and guilt. Luv, Buddy

 

[buddy]

"His speech is still in progress, and probably has another year or two to go. His report cards are graded by:E for Excellent which he gets for class discussions and asking/answering questions. G-Good for religion,P.E. and misc. S-Satisfactory and N-Needs Improvement. Well, he can only read a few words because he will not listen to us, the teacher, or practice like he should. He Needs improvement on finishing his work as well. He has had some good weeks with no warnings or times outs, but he get them for not listening/settling down etc.

This sounds like to me things are not as great at school as the doctors are saying.... Or do I misunderstand???

 

[Malika]

Hi Confused. I do sympathise with the confusion (good choice of name) you are experiencing -is he or isn't he, as it were? Normal or neurological?? I too have some people pouring doubt on the notion that there is anything wrong with my son other than my parenting and the fact that I am on my own with him, with others pointing to neurological or other difficulties. Basically you have to get to a point of certainty in yourself, I think, because the experts, so called, are perfectly capable of remaining divided among themselves. From what you have described, your son is not the way he is because of you or other environmental factors. The fact that he is okay at school also doesn't mean so much in itself, I think. Some children with diagnoses love routine and thrive on that structure. I do wish you clarity (much as I wish it for myself).

 

[BusynMember]

I agree that he needs another evaluation and my pick is a neuropsychologist. Maybe he saw the pediatrician...they can not assess good/bad parenting vs. a disorder. It is probably some disorder. Even spoiled kids can behave and learn. He doesn't sound happy...that's the main thing. We all want our little peeps to be happy, and I know you do too. I would not feel guilty. None of this is your fault. You are getting bad advice and it sounds like perhaps a therapist (like maybe a social worker) or a teacher or somebody else who is not qualified to diagnose is telling you that all would be well if you could just modify your parenting. We have probably all heard this, but most of us have moved on as we realize that it isn't us...it's the kids themselves who are not responding as other kids do to normal discipline. I am NOT a fan of behavior therapists as in my opinion they are the worst offenders of this. Then when their ideas fail, again, they blame us. And we blame ourselves.

A lot of kids who are troublesome at home behave in school, which makes us look like the offenders. They can maintain to a point, but then they get home and, after holding the stress and hype in all day, they REALLY let it go on the ones who love them the most...the ones they know will accept them no matter what. Unfortunately, often school behavior becomes a problem after a while too. Your sweet little guy needs help and nobody should expect you to be able to do it yourself. It's not fair.

It is up to you, but sounds like his bio. dad had some serious issues and these are often inherited. Even if he never sees his bio. dad, he has his genes.

Keep us posted and let us know how he is doing and what you decide to do

 

[Confused]

TeDo,
I agree but its hard to switch Dr's to find one that will help. Sadly I am still on Medicaid for them and the new rule says to stick with one Dr. But I am hoping for a Teaching, or heck any job at this point and I can see what doors open for him. Yes, his Dad,dad Half-Brother and father( father is hear say from his family because father has passed on) are all violent that I know of. Women,Alcohol and Violence. So it just scares me! Ya, its hard when no one listens to us in the medical field! Thanks!

 

[Confused]

buddy,
I know, I do keep a close eye on the school with him.Yes, I am buying into its all my fault, their dad had said that and made a comment before he married his fourth that" if him and I were together he maybe wouldn't act that way". Uggh exs are full of it! Yes, I do have and am reading that Explosive Child. I'm glad these methods are helping with you and your sisters children! Gives us hope! I know about the public schools Special Education, I was Special Education! I believe they called it BIC AND BAC, I went in because I refused to go to school in the fourth grade due to the teacher constantly putting me down,embarrassing me etc. She did this to most kids throughout many years, I just couldn't handle it! Yes, that was private school1 So any who, I went to public but still have been in out all these years! I want help for my son, but public schools here "jump and label kids quickly" and some of those children should not have been! Also, in Pre-K, my son missed from bacterial infections( several) and many,many,many tardys due to tantrums in the mornings which he should of failed. They understood his issue, and passed him because he knew the material for Pre-K. In a public school, he would have repeated the grade. So far, only a few very light,non-violent tantrums before school this year! Anyways, thank you!

 

[Confused]

bUddy,
I was going to include this response in my other post but forgot! So, although he has his timeouts and he can improve in the grades, the teacher still says he is doing ok, and nothing to worry about yet. All kids are different, mine is a little more active but nothing out of the ordinary. The Dr's say unless a teacher writes a note to the parent saying the child is having too many problems, they will wait.

 

[buddy]

Funny you say that, I think so many here feel like they have to fight to get any label or help. I do think kids get mislabeled though. That has always been a huge concern. If you come from a place of feeling mislabeled yourself, I can see that would be a fear. Laws are very different from when I first started in Special Education. If you ever come to a place where you feel he needs support (and you can get sp ed support while he is in private school, just not AT the private school, like if he needed speech therapy you can get it free by driving him to an agreed upon site) the laws are very strict about privacy and Special Education files are kept separate from cummulative files. You have to give permission to let anyone see them much like medical files, and the only ones allowed to look are those on a "need to know" basis and they must sign in and say what and why they looked in the file. I love private schools for many kids. I went to one for a few years and was bullied. But for my friend's son it is a wonderful option. They are amazing with him. dont fix what aint broke as they say, lol!

 

[Confused]

Malika,
Hello! Yes, I love that name! I agree, when my son had that "Strep Bottom", they treated him but since then (First month of Pre-K now middle of Kinder) he has had that bathroom issue, forgot the name now. Where he gets constipated and then"has accidents even while constipated" and I kept asking the the nurses and another Dr there and they said feed him rite, it will pass, give him this or that! Well, is main Dr at that office when I brought the actual name to his attention,explained symptoms and guess what? I WAS RIGHT ! So thats another battle I still go through with him, Dr says this issues he is "scared to go because of the pain before".Uggh. I hope your son is doing better today! Thanks!