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difficult child ultimate defiance like i've never seen
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 382770" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>With your posts, a lot more subtle information is now coming through and the jigsaw pieces are starting to fall into place.</p><p></p><p>Your exH sounds like a major drama queen. King. No, queen. No sexuality issues implied. But he comes across as a squealing little girl. But with the health component of this crisis developing over the weeks before her current placement, he was much more involved, making his presence very definitely felt in your household. The more she didn't eat, the more he and you were both focussed on the one thing - eat, darling. She was giving you both the same interest and at the same time, making herself seem important enough to care about. ExH's wife not being around on the visits - now there's an explanation that is more palatable in difficult child's mind, she can believe that it's because there is still a chance you and he will get back together.</p><p>On those nights when you lie beside her in bed, she's fantasising that her daddy is lying on the other side and you are all one family. Just the three of you.</p><p>The problem is, this develops into a physical habit that can't be broken, and then she gets genuinely scared at what is happening. This is not all pretend, but it started a bit that way, with her believing that she is worth nothing if she hasn't got her two original parents. Viiting here and there has for her been making her feel as if she herself is fragmented. ExH's behaviour won't be helping - she sees him misbehave but get away with it, so maybe it's OK to throw hissy fits because hey, HE'S an adult and doesn't get called on it!</p><p></p><p>Those times when exH invaded your space and you didn't call the cops to get him out - it tells her 9with that tiny flame of hope) that perhaps it's because you still carry a torch for him. And his wife never being around - of course she will see that as new wife hating the child from the former marriage. And of course a kid that age will blame herself - they always do. So again, she has to make herself feel loved again, to compensate.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes you can do your utmost and it still is not enough, if in her own mind she is insulated from the therapy, and also if her deep-seated beliefs are stronger than the therapist is aware.</p><p></p><p>Then it has all led to her being in this hospital, and wow, you and exH and she are all there together, in therapy together! The beginning of a marriage all over again... And all the grandparents are all there, all at the same time. That's suddenly a lot of attention being focussed on her, all because she began to have difficulty eating. </p><p></p><p>The trouble with hysteria - it might begin with a short-term tantrum, or a short-term "I don't feel like doing this," but you can quickly get backed into a corner. It can be very hard to climb down from a high horse. The more attention they get from ANYBODY with that initial 'issue', and they get very quickly painted into that corner. Even if you didn't react with the wrong response to begin with, I'm betting her father did. And it may not have initially been the eating thing, it could have been anything at all. For years, she's been playing you both one against the other, not even realising she's doing it. Whatever kind of attention she craves, she knows the shopping list she has to choose form - you, or him. So she gives each of you what will trigger the item on her shopping list that she feels is closest to what she wants. Neither of these items is a perfect fit, but she will compromise. </p><p></p><p>And now it's all been blurted out at last.</p><p></p><p>What she now has to learn, is to not push other people's buttons to get the attention she wants. She has to find it for herself, appropriately. There are a lot of bad habits she has to unlearn, and it probably goes way back to before you and exH split up. You did not have a perfect marriage and then one day wake up and say, "I think it would be fun to split." So whatever bad habits are there now in her environment, were probably there from her birth.</p><p></p><p>I'm not blaming you, please realise this. What has happened is a curious mix of her basic personality plus the odd combination of exH's extreme behaviours plus your own learned behaviour in response to exH. You've learned for those years to placate and be the peacemaker, while he still enjoys being the causer of chaos. Daughter has learned that to a certain extent, causing chaos gives her a payoff - in your home. And with exH, she has to behave somewhat differently, but it takes a lot less to get the hysterical reaction from him. What is wrong here, is the combination. If it was just you, she would have developed differently. If it was just him - ditto (although from what you say, it would have been a rough ride for her).</p><p></p><p>I think what has come out now is just the tip of the iceberg. She is still very young, but there are already a lot of bad mental habits to change. As to her diagnosis - I'm wondering how much of this was simply her behaviour copied form dad, trying to emulate a parent she wanted you to love once again. Maybe once she's come through all this, it might be time to revisit her diagnosis, get her thoroughly re-evaluated. She's got a bit of an alphabet soup at the moment and I'm wondering if there's not something else there instead, that explains much of it and covers it under one umbrella.</p><p></p><p>This kid has been trying to make sense of the world with difficulty, given a bad set of operating instructions to begin with. Kids can be amazingly inventive in how they develop their coping skills, which is why it can be so difficult making therapy work. Sometimes it takes an extraordinary leap of logic to be able to work out what is going on.</p><p></p><p>She needs you to a large extent, but she also needs (at an earlier age than usual, sadly) to work things out for herself and not rely on you to have all the solutions. At some level she is still the 2 year old wanting Mommy to make the problem disappear, whatever the problem is. But she has to learn to own her part in the problems and to learn to solve things for herself. This is a problem pretty much of her making, so she needs to work out how to fix it. Only then will she learn how to fix her future problems too.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there, it will be a rough ride. But I do think you need to make it clear to her - not a chance, you and exH finished years ago and have both moved on permanently. Even if you had not remarried, you would never have gotten back with exH. You need to let husband off the hook as the bad guy - it is not your marriage standing in the way of Happy Families with exH, it is you and exH yourselves. You are not puppets to be shaped at the whim of your daughter.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there. I keep saying it. Stand strong, find your strength and use it.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 382770, member: 1991"] With your posts, a lot more subtle information is now coming through and the jigsaw pieces are starting to fall into place. Your exH sounds like a major drama queen. King. No, queen. No sexuality issues implied. But he comes across as a squealing little girl. But with the health component of this crisis developing over the weeks before her current placement, he was much more involved, making his presence very definitely felt in your household. The more she didn't eat, the more he and you were both focussed on the one thing - eat, darling. She was giving you both the same interest and at the same time, making herself seem important enough to care about. ExH's wife not being around on the visits - now there's an explanation that is more palatable in difficult child's mind, she can believe that it's because there is still a chance you and he will get back together. On those nights when you lie beside her in bed, she's fantasising that her daddy is lying on the other side and you are all one family. Just the three of you. The problem is, this develops into a physical habit that can't be broken, and then she gets genuinely scared at what is happening. This is not all pretend, but it started a bit that way, with her believing that she is worth nothing if she hasn't got her two original parents. Viiting here and there has for her been making her feel as if she herself is fragmented. ExH's behaviour won't be helping - she sees him misbehave but get away with it, so maybe it's OK to throw hissy fits because hey, HE'S an adult and doesn't get called on it! Those times when exH invaded your space and you didn't call the cops to get him out - it tells her 9with that tiny flame of hope) that perhaps it's because you still carry a torch for him. And his wife never being around - of course she will see that as new wife hating the child from the former marriage. And of course a kid that age will blame herself - they always do. So again, she has to make herself feel loved again, to compensate. Sometimes you can do your utmost and it still is not enough, if in her own mind she is insulated from the therapy, and also if her deep-seated beliefs are stronger than the therapist is aware. Then it has all led to her being in this hospital, and wow, you and exH and she are all there together, in therapy together! The beginning of a marriage all over again... And all the grandparents are all there, all at the same time. That's suddenly a lot of attention being focussed on her, all because she began to have difficulty eating. The trouble with hysteria - it might begin with a short-term tantrum, or a short-term "I don't feel like doing this," but you can quickly get backed into a corner. It can be very hard to climb down from a high horse. The more attention they get from ANYBODY with that initial 'issue', and they get very quickly painted into that corner. Even if you didn't react with the wrong response to begin with, I'm betting her father did. And it may not have initially been the eating thing, it could have been anything at all. For years, she's been playing you both one against the other, not even realising she's doing it. Whatever kind of attention she craves, she knows the shopping list she has to choose form - you, or him. So she gives each of you what will trigger the item on her shopping list that she feels is closest to what she wants. Neither of these items is a perfect fit, but she will compromise. And now it's all been blurted out at last. What she now has to learn, is to not push other people's buttons to get the attention she wants. She has to find it for herself, appropriately. There are a lot of bad habits she has to unlearn, and it probably goes way back to before you and exH split up. You did not have a perfect marriage and then one day wake up and say, "I think it would be fun to split." So whatever bad habits are there now in her environment, were probably there from her birth. I'm not blaming you, please realise this. What has happened is a curious mix of her basic personality plus the odd combination of exH's extreme behaviours plus your own learned behaviour in response to exH. You've learned for those years to placate and be the peacemaker, while he still enjoys being the causer of chaos. Daughter has learned that to a certain extent, causing chaos gives her a payoff - in your home. And with exH, she has to behave somewhat differently, but it takes a lot less to get the hysterical reaction from him. What is wrong here, is the combination. If it was just you, she would have developed differently. If it was just him - ditto (although from what you say, it would have been a rough ride for her). I think what has come out now is just the tip of the iceberg. She is still very young, but there are already a lot of bad mental habits to change. As to her diagnosis - I'm wondering how much of this was simply her behaviour copied form dad, trying to emulate a parent she wanted you to love once again. Maybe once she's come through all this, it might be time to revisit her diagnosis, get her thoroughly re-evaluated. She's got a bit of an alphabet soup at the moment and I'm wondering if there's not something else there instead, that explains much of it and covers it under one umbrella. This kid has been trying to make sense of the world with difficulty, given a bad set of operating instructions to begin with. Kids can be amazingly inventive in how they develop their coping skills, which is why it can be so difficult making therapy work. Sometimes it takes an extraordinary leap of logic to be able to work out what is going on. She needs you to a large extent, but she also needs (at an earlier age than usual, sadly) to work things out for herself and not rely on you to have all the solutions. At some level she is still the 2 year old wanting Mommy to make the problem disappear, whatever the problem is. But she has to learn to own her part in the problems and to learn to solve things for herself. This is a problem pretty much of her making, so she needs to work out how to fix it. Only then will she learn how to fix her future problems too. Hang in there, it will be a rough ride. But I do think you need to make it clear to her - not a chance, you and exH finished years ago and have both moved on permanently. Even if you had not remarried, you would never have gotten back with exH. You need to let husband off the hook as the bad guy - it is not your marriage standing in the way of Happy Families with exH, it is you and exH yourselves. You are not puppets to be shaped at the whim of your daughter. Hang in there. I keep saying it. Stand strong, find your strength and use it. Marg [/QUOTE]
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