Does this sound like Op/Defiant????

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by scardycat, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. scardycat

    scardycat New Member

    My child is 5, almost 6. Female. Very intelligent (not gifted, just bright). Early talker. Spoke extremely well very early.

    Tantrums - 30 min - 2 hr over stuff like tater tots, milk, tv, getting dressed. - we have never given in to a tantrum, do not know what she gets out of it

    Has tied up her barbies since she could figure out how. Loves to "imprison" things.

    Spanking - does not work - she laughs (even when we know it has to be hurting pretty bad) Has been known to stick but up at me and tell me "spank me, I like it"

    Tried putting soap in mouth for sassy talk. She requested to taste each kind of soap in the house and seemed to enjoy it.

    Does not like to be told what to do. Often says"I wish I didn't have parents or teachers so I can do what I want to"

    Can go from full blown temper to sweetest child in 0.3 sec.

    She has kicked me and hit me during tantrums. She bangs on the walls, stomps, slams things, throws things.

    When she's not behaving like this, she is funny, sweet and a joy to be around. She is a very pretty girl and is always being told by people how beautiful she is and I get told she should be in modeling probably 2x per week by strangers. I wish the inside was as pretty as the outside.

    She also does not listen in school, does not willingly obey and interrupts people. Not shy. Will speak her mind.

    She also likes to pretend she doesn't know things that she knows. Like, alphabet, numbers, etc.

    I just don't get it. I don't know where we went wrong, if we went wrong, or if she is just this way.

    As a baby, she was very persistent. Would do things over and over until she mastered it. Still is that way about things.

    Help!!! We went to child psychiatric but he has not seen her enough to diagnose.

    Any help or advice appreciated. (We are very consistent with rules and discipline, so I know it is not a problem with that)

  2. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Welcome to our forum!

    What's her speech like now in comparison to her peers now? Does she talk like a typical 5 year old or like an older child or adult?
  3. julieb

    julieb New Member

    I too am dealing with this with my son. I am new to the forum and have read and had lots of great advice. It was recomened to me to read the book "The Explosive Child" while I have not had the chance to run out and get I plan to do so on Friday. I have heard noting but wonderful things about it.

    Just know that you are not alone and that there are tons of other parents just like us out there to help:D
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I would want her evaluated by a team of experts: A Multi-Disciplinary Evaluation or just a private neuropsychologist. This behavior is "different" and she could have one of many disorders. ODD rarely stands alone anyway.
    Do you have any psychiatric, neurological or substance abuse problems on either side of the family tree? Can she make good eye contact? Socialize with peers appropriately? Transition from one activity to another without a rage? Does she go up to strangers and start to talk to them about whatever's on her mind? How does she sleep? Any sensory issues--sensitivity to fabric, foods, textures, loud noise, strong smells, etc.
    Welcome :)
  5. Lulu

    Lulu New Member

    We are in a similar boat with our 4yo. I recognized so many of the things on the list you wrote! I second getting Greene's The Explosive Child. That helped me understand (somewhat) why my difficult child 1 was doing the things he was, and also gave me a better "big picture" of disciplining him. Conventional discipline/consequences rarely work with miine, and often just serve to escalate the issue until someone hurts himself (difficult child 1's usually end with him biting his arm HARD, then crying hysterically for ten minutes, and then telling us he thought it was OUR arm or hand).

    So, yes, you are in the right place, and these ladies have some good ideas about evaluations, family history, etc. Welcome, but wish you didn't have to find us!
  6. scardycat

    scardycat New Member

    Thanks you everyone for your responses. I am going to look for that book.

    She does not have sensory issues. She does speak very well for her age now, but is in line with her peers. She sleeps really well. Makes great eye contact. Transitions well for the most part. She does talk to strangers and is very charming to them (I never let her out of my site because she will just talk or walk off with anyone) She socializes ok with peers. If they are compliant - it's great. If they are strong willed, not so good. She tends to befriend girls who behave like she does. I've been told she is a ring leader by her after school teachers.

    My side of family has history of depression, one uncle who is manic depressive - dad had major depression along with both his sisters. My brothers have not had problems (thanks to God). I would not wish mental illness on my worst enemy.

    Husband's family - none that I know of. He is one of 4 boys. All who had lots of energy.

    I have major depression. Started as post partum depression. Never had problems before that. I am pretty stable unless medicine is not working (digestive problems) I've been hospitalized 2x in past year.

    No substance abuse by father or myself.

    Hope this answered all the questions. Thanks SOOOO much for your response. Just being able to talk about it is good. I used to think it was just that she was strong willed, read Dobson and other books, however, those "strong willed" by his terms have nothing on my girl.

    Lulu and Julieb, hang in there too. Midwest - what is a neuropsychologist? She is just now seeing a child psychiatric that was recommended to me. He gave me and her teacher a Conner's evaluation. He's really booked so we have not seen him since getting this.
  7. betdan

    betdan New Member

    wow scardycat...I feel as if you are talking about my daugher...same EXACT age and everything...please if you ever find anything that works please do let me know and I will do the same. I am curious...does she have siblings?
  8. IHaveTwo

    IHaveTwo New Member


    This may sound weird, but thanks for your post. It is good to know from your original post and the others after it that I AM NOT ALONE. It's embarrasing and frustrating and heartbreaking all at the same time when your own child acts inappropriately -- especially a child who can be the sweetest and most charming five year old you have ever met! Part of you wants to melt into the ground or shout to everyone watching, "HEY, I AM A GREAT MOM!"

    I could have written your note (with some exceptions -- but your situation clicked with me). My 5 (almost 6) year old son has most of the same behaviours (thankfully not the tying up Barbies one!), but has also now taken to stomping up the stairs to his room and slamming the door when he doesn't get what he wants, followed by a loud bout of crying for a couple of minutes (then opening the door ajar so it's very loud in the house -- like I couldn't hear it before??) and saying, "You aren't being FAIR! You hurt my feelings. HMPH" (Someone please tell me I'm not the only one!) I don't know where he gets that/got that from, because I definitely am not like that. When I ask him "How do you think we could do it differently to make it fair?" He suggests something that is clearly unfair and only benefits him. I don't get it, and I honestly don't know how to handle it.
    Then, when my 5 year old says, "WHY, Mommy, WHY can't we [whatever]?" I respond, "Because I told you that if you continued to do [whatever], there would be [whatever] consequences; and that is what is happening. You are getting the consequences. *I* didn't decide to HAVE the consequences, YOU decided to have the poor choice that resulted in the consequences." Then he says, "WHY, Mommy, WHY can't we [whatever]?" And we go full circle. Argh. (Again, someone please tell me I'm not the only one!)
    It doesn't help that I'm in the middle of an ugly custody-battle divorce and his dad's girlfriend moved in to his place at the end of last year with her two kids (1 and 5) after less than a year of separation -- but that's a different story. (Yes, I do believe these things are related, but not according to his lawyer.)
    I am anxiously looking forward to any advice (other than the book which I'll try to find online tonight, and other things that I'd rather go into a different time) about how to help him through this. I don't want him to grow up to be a bully or get into trouble. I am also, like Scardycat, consistent in rules and disipline.
    Scardycat, I support you. I know it's hard but try this:
    We/I will ..... (My favorite saying today ;)) We/I will <insert word here> Succeed? Win? Accept? Love? We/I will <insert word here> Cherish, Give Gratitude? Support? We/I will <insert word here> Love? Honor? Respect? We/I will <insert word here> Blame? Hurt? Punish? I think We/I will Support, Respect and Be There for Those Who Need It. I pick the last one today.
    That may sound like a bunch of hooey to a lot of people, but it has great meaning to me.
    Sorry for the length of this. I guess I was on a roll....
    I'm new here, so "Hi, everyone! Nice to meet you."
  9. budk-XT

    budk-XT New Member is my first post within ConDis. Scardycat, and others, my wife and I are going thru this same issue with our 5yo lil man. He has an older brother (7yr) who has challenges but he is not nearly as strong willed/defiant as Lil Man. The Thinker (7yr old) has matured a bit so his behavior is somewhat controlled at this moment. ScardyCat could have been writing about Lil Man except for the gender and dolls. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    Lil Man can be very charming, has been speaking very well since the age of two and is constantly being told that he is so cute (which may be going to his head). He is in no way, shape or form shy and must be the center of attention. He is also a very bright boy but not gifted. All the other children in his class/school look up to him which is not all good. I forgot to mention that he is a habitual fabricator of the truth:sad-very:. You could watch him do something and he will strongly deny it to the point you have to question if you even saw him do what you KNOW you saw.

    The behavior he has exhibited lately has gotten worse in the last year or so but mostly rears it's "ugly head" at pre-school. We have some problems at home but there is structure, boundaries and expectations outlined. He is aware there will be immediate consequences at home. Nothing seems to bother him as punishment for his behavior at school though (toys taken, discipline, no tv...etc).

    He has always been a slow eater but we must put him on the "clock" so that he finishes his breakfast/dinner when the rest of the family does.

    At school he refuses to take a nap even though he may be a walking zombie. Its like he is gonna miss something by taking a nap at school. Nap time for him is huge because if he doesn't take a nap his activity level is raised even higher. He also will disturb the other kids at nap time which contributes to chaos (see earlier ring leader statement).

    We have kept him up on purpose 2hrs past his normal bed time thinking that he will take a nap the following day. Each time he just laid down at nap time and shook himself back awake when he was almost sleep. The teacher was surprised as she had never seen a child do that before.

    He is the brightest child in the class but can't sit still all the time and complete his tasks. We want him to do well when he enters K this school year but we also want him to exhibit some self control.

    My wife and I adopted both he and his brother after having them in our home 2yrs so we know a little about their background (some drug use and possibly alcohol). Right now we are at our wits end on what to do to help Lil Man and The Thinker. We want the best for both of them. We are torn between medication and Feingold at this point.

    Lil Man - ODD and ADHD according to psychiatric evaluation but tough to diagnose at such an early age. evaluation was done at age 4.

    The Thinker - ADHD tendancies but demonstrates more self control now. The classroom environment is tough as he wants to talk or "help" his classmates with their work.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is leading to very hi stress levels in our home.
  10. SRL

    SRL Active Member

  11. claire

    claire New Member

    Hi, i'm married with three children. Our 5yo seems to have ODD. We are now waiting for the rubber stamp seal of approval from the pead, which is taking forever.
    My husbang and i are lost. We are trying to encourage our other 2 children not to follow in their bog brothers footsteps.
    We know little about this condition and dread public places.. Help. Any ideas?
  12. robinesk

    robinesk New Member

    This sounds a lot like my 4 year old. Have you considered the effect of sugar? I have just noticed that if my daughter has any sugar before noon she will go crazy at some point in the morning. If she has a good amount of protein in the morning she is even tempered all day. I don't understand why this is the case and I am here trying to figure out why she is obsessed with tying up her toys but I just thought it might help a little.