easy child is moving out

[StressedM0mma]

Well, difficult child has finally done it. easy child decided last night that she is moving out, and into a friend's home. And, I am so ****** off right now. difficult child got what she wanted.
Last night difficult child was ridiculous last night. We told her that she could not have phone/computer past 10pm. So at 8 she asked for it. husband put it on her bed while she was in the shower. Well, at 10 I asked for both and she had a fit. She said she didn't know it was on her bed, and now she would never be able to talk to her friends. I didn't cave, went in picked up the computer and phone and went to bed. difficult child threw a temper tantrum any 4 year old would be proud of. She started by setting her alarm to go off and locked her door so we couldn't get in to turn it off. then she went downstairs and turned the TV up as loud as it would go. husband turned off the alarm and unplugged the TV. Then it was the stereo. Unplugged that. Then she went around turning on all the lights. husband turned them off. She defluffed one of the couch cushions (that the dogs had already ruined) I left the fluff all over the floor. She can clean it. husband took all of the lightbulbs out of her room. He never raised his voice. This went on until 1am when she realized her ipod was in her room and she got that got her dog and went to sleep. A three hour temper tantrum because she could not have her computer. But we did not give in.
And not that this is wonderful, but she didnot scream, and she did not destroy any property. I was expecting holes or writing on walls, things broken etc. So, maybe the police helped some.
But, I am so angry that easy child is the one that has to leave. That should not have to happen. And, there is nothing that we can do. We told difficult child this morning that easy child was leaving and her answer was "So?" And husband asked her if she knew why easy child was leaving. "Because she is ungrateful!" Where does this messed up thinking come from? UGH!!
So, we shall see if maybe NOW they will help with a mood stabilizer! GRRR

 

[TeDo]

You really had a rough night and I can totally understand easy child's decision. It is so sad that the "good kids" suffer at the hands of these illnesses. I know you are doing all you can and I am VERY proud of you and husband for the way you handled things last night. Now tonight, you'll have to think ahead and do all the removing and unplugging BEFORE you take away the computer/phone.

{{{{(((HUGS)))}}}}

 

[Bunny]

If my easy child chose to move out I bet that my difficult child would have exactly the same reaction. Either that, or he would say, "Good. No one wants him here anyway." I know how you feel, and it is really sad that the PCs seem to have to suffer.

I'm so sorry that easy child is leaving. I wish I had some words of wisdom to make you feel better about her choice, but I don't. I would be heartbroken is easy child left because of difficult child.

 

[confuzzled]

sorry to hear it was such a rough night--it sounds horrid. i hope today is better for all of you.

i'm not sure if you are aware of this, so forgive me if you already know, but i just wanted to let you know that a MS is anything but a quick fix--if its what she truly needs, it is wonderful, but they often have a very long titration schedule or multiple bloodsticks to check theraputic levels. and sometimes things get worse before they get better until you get to where she needs to be.

maybe its me, but i feel like i'm missing something in your story--i was orginally under the impression her difficulties started in nov @14/8th grade and that she leaned toward the perfectionist side and couldnt cope well anymore. when you mentioned in the other thread that she was on medications at 7 i was surprised (again, could very well be ME)...but that fact alone shows there is some background and that something was going on historically.

i can only speak for myself, but i feel terrible that you kind of get "generic advice" on things like "maybe she's tired in the am because she's up on facebook all night" which probably isnt exactly helpful if there are more layers to the situation. i dont recall you mentioning a full blown awake rage (i know you've mentioned mornings on wakeup with exhaustion, in my mind, thats sort of different) so my first thought was flat out, "brattiness" over not getting her stuff, but clearly, there is more to it.

i know its the internet and loads of things get lost in translation so maybe it would help us help YOU if you kind of did a post with a bit more of history in it--i'm sure it must be frustrating to you. couple that with a nagging, vague familiarness to your story i just hate to see you not get the support *you* need....

but (((HUGS)))

 

[buddy]

Sorry about that. If easy child is safe and close enough to visit, maybe this could help a little for now (not fair, but??)...because it is one less variable for you to negotiate around.

You guys did great sticking with that. Not as much a consequence, but she needs to get on a healthy schedule and so it is like giving medicine they dont like the taste of...right?

Do you have zoned circut breakers in your home? Can you just cut off the electric to her areas of the house? Just curious. May just push her tantrum closer to you.

Have you now made it clear that you will tolerate NO abuse and that includes verbal so you will call the police and press charges next time she does all of that? She seems to know what is what but has some total rage issues which just have to include an underlying problem. She seems like she has developed some amazing manipulation skills. But that does not mean it is where it all started.

I think a second opinion, a full neuropsychologist evaluation is really in order.... I agree with Confuz. that there is such a history and even if there were spells of relative calm, puberty could be triggering a whole new level of issues. To take that full history along with the current problems and bring it to someone outside to help puzzle thru this could really help you.

Have you done that before? I know..... ONE more thing! sorry... you know I care.

 

[StressedM0mma]

We haven't done a neuropsychologist evaluation. I do not even know where to look to find one. ANy info would be appreciated. She has had a long history with anxiety when she was younger. That was the beginning of the celexa. She was also somewhat depressed. She has always had problems deflecting issues. Looking for someone else to blame, but she seemed to have gotten better around 5th grade. She was mostly ok through middle school with just a few problems. We thougt those were mostly typical teen behaviors. Like I said previously we never had any typical teen stuf with easy child she has always been super easy going. Then this school year everything fell apart. I am at the point where I have no desire to even interact with difficult child any longer. I do not even want to ask how her day was or how's the weather. Driving easy child out is/was the last straw for me. She is with a neighbor so I can still see her, and she can come over to eat and things but it isn't the same thing. This is easy child's senior year, and I only have a few more months with her before she leaves. At this point I am so angry at difficult child I do not even want to look at her.

 

[buddy]

first: you can call your insurance and tell them you are looking for a complete neuropsychologist evaluation for your child and you want to know which facilities they cover. If you have in and out of network places still check into all.

you can also call universities and children's hospitals to ask for neuropsychological clinics/evaluations.

second: you have only just started treatment, it will be worse before it gets better, so this may just need to be a month for your easy child to have a break while you help difficult child get on her feet. BUT if she does not show improvement in a month or so.... (ask your counselors what they usually see) then maybe it is time to look at residential for her. She needs more then, and probably a wake up call to what REAL rules look like... not that yours aren't real but face it, at home we can be flexible and bend to them and they get rewards easier.... at a place like that it is not going to happen. I know my son would hate that part.

(of course, I do realize this is not about rules, I am just talking about her recent upset.... the bottom line is much deeper, I do get that, smile)

 

[pepperidge]

grr...time for difficult child to move and easy child to move back in. The impression I get from your story--as another poster said, its just what comes through is a very bratty entitled kid. By the way, anti depressants made my kids temper tantrums like your daughters much worse--. Lexapro (like Celexa) had my child overturning desks in teh classroom, literally. While she may need better medications, I think she needs a big wake up call with a out of the home placement. And during that time it would be good for you and husband to get some help. You are doing a great job not giving in.
With my son I found it hard having dealt with depression for so long and real fear about the depression not to be a bit of a soft touch. When he tanked, we had to get outside help and now that he is home (and much better) I am working on not giving in to his fits of depression. It can have a manipulative side.

I am really sorry about easy child.

 

[AnnieO]

From what I've had to deal with - and it is super similar - she can be labeled unruly. She IS hurting others in the house, other CHILDREN - easy child is not yet 18!!! - and losing sleep because of difficult child's defiant behavior is hurting her...

I'm sending you my spare set of Warrior Mama Armor. It's got some scratches and isn't as shiny as I'd like, but those are battle scars... And and extra set will help!

As for a neuropsychologist - call the psychiatrist and tell them you want a referral. If they don't know? Call the closest Children's - you do have one I think.

Sooner or later (though I know it feels like later!) she will do something that will have severe consequences for her. I hope it does not also have the same for you...

 

[confuzzled]

i would think that her php could adminster some testing under the diagnostic umbrella, cant they? i've never walked that road so i dont know what the scope of a partial program is, but it would seem they should ferret out diagnosis's so they are sure they are treating the right thing (too logical, i know, lol!). it was your therapist that set the wheels in motion to get her in, right? or was it the school?

if not, at a bare minimum the social worker associated with the program should be able to find someone for you....what your insurance will/wont pay for during a private assessment is a different story.

 

[buddy]

OK, this is going to sound mean.... and I am mean along with you if you do it because I have thought of it... (for me I know it wont solve any long term problems, but for an ace in the hole kind of thing to stop a behavior if it slips by all of my -ahem- extraordinary parenting measures, lol....

I told Q I was going to get papers to have signed so if he hurts me again I can make going to the police faster. As much as I said I knew I owuld be in trouble if I went down that road, I did have to use it recently and it did stop the stomping, tipping chairs, pounding on me, charging me and faking aggression etc. Of course I tried other things first, and before...but he came in the house loaded for bear so not much time to be proactive.

So, what if blank papers were to show up on a table that she happened to see... papers from a police department given to people who are filling out a complaint on someone. What if she saw that sitting there to know you are willing to go there and as a follow up to your police call...

A little manipulative I know, but I would not say to do it if you didn't really mean it. Or you can even admit you just were curious how to fill out a complaint if you needed it. I would not do such a thing for someone who randomly blows up..could be a trigger. But if she is really just blowing up over losing preferred things and avoiding non preferred things, then it might just reinforce the calling the police thing.

I know it is not very Ross Greene, but I am an eclectic kind of intervention person.... I dont just use one thing for all issues.

 

[confuzzled]

oh and dont underestimate what anxiety looks like....its not always traditional heart palpitations and panic attacks. it often looks really different in kids than adults. i sometimes feel that is one of the most debillitating diagnosis's.

and right now, yours must be in anxiety overdrive with everything thats going on--just the simple change from school to program could easily set her teeth on edge, let alone someone who's very bright, was doing very well and tanked to epic proportions. it might seem logical to a grown up that she's sick, but in her head, she might be seeing an awful lot of failure, disappointment, loss of approval from people, etc....heavy stuff for an anxious kid to deal with, no matter how smart they are.

 

[StressedM0mma]

I think husband is considering pressing charges. He really wants her to learn her lesson. And Step, I need to update my signature. easy child is 18 now. She turn 18 at the end of Dec. I think easy child is going to be gone for at least a week. SHe has midterms next week, and I do not want her to have to deal with all of this at the same time. I understand what you all are saying about her being bratty, but there is something else going on with it. She has not been on this little medication in almost 7 years. And, I think that is a part of it as well. I am not defending her behavior at all. I am so done with her that I am ready to turn her over to CPS. I want her to realize what she is doing to our family.

 

[confuzzled]

stressed--i think i said it wrong with the bratty part--the magnitude of the tantrum made it look more bratlike, i didnt mean to imply SHE was being a brat. i dont necessarily think it was something even conscious...i think the response eventually spiralled into looking like it, but i think there was a very real visceral anxiety reaction to the removal of her "stuff"....thats her social outlet, and its almost like it was a very physical response to being cut off from it. its something that sounds absolutely ludicrious to an adult, but these days, kids are so tied in electronically its almost addiction like.

i also still have a sneaking suspicion that it would somewhat explain complete exhaustion in the morning and marathon sleep events--you'd be amazed at what happens on line in the middle of the night.

i can imagine how frustrated you feel right now, but honestly, from what you say, i dont get a sense of manipulation. (self entitlement, certainly--not for nothing, at 14, OF COURSE THE WORLD REVOLVES AROUND HER! DID YOU NOT GET THE MEMO!!)

i'm sure every single thing feels uber magnified for you right now--i'm so sorry for all of you.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Technology is the most anti-social form of communication ever created. It is completely artificial, unnatural, and goes against every instinct built into us since we came to walk upon the earth.

Convenient. Practical for some things.
But... when it comes to "socialization" - it destroys way more than the good it does.

Her so-called friends? are not friends at all, if the only form of communication is electronic.
(phone-calls do not come into this category... text messages do, along with email, face book, BBs, etc.)
It is so far removed from reality, that it can feed (not necessarily create) mental health issues like depression and anxiety.

The fact that she can't handle being "unplugged"... is a serious issue in and of itself. Its an addiction, and probably needs to be treated as such. What you saw last night was "withdrawal symptoms".

Maybe?

 

[StressedM0mma]

Confuzzled I think she is very anxious about everything. I have panic attacks with the heart palpitations and excess worry. I also get involuntary muscle twitches. I had forgotten about the twitches until they started up again recently. She has those the entire time she sleeps. I originally thought they could be from the zoloft but have been considering recently if they are from anxiety/panic. Up until recently she had been wanting me to lie down with her at night until she fell asleep. That is how I knew about the muscle twitches. I know she is a perfectionist. I can't imagine what it feels like to her to be failing. Bit I am still so angry with her that easy child is moving out. Beyond mad.
IC I agree with you about the technology. I hate that the only way kids communicate is through texting and FB. I will say that I know difficult child's best friend does not have a phone so the only way to contact her is through FB. Her friends mom limits telephone time, and friend doesn't like talking in front of mom. I am in no way defending difficult child. She was home at 4 last night, and didn't even ask for her computer until after 8. She likes to be on it at night. I do agree that she spends too much time on it playing games. We have been trying to get her out of the house to do things with friends, but we think she may have isolated herself from most of them with all of this behavior. We are not sure. So, please send some prayer our way that we have some peace at home tonight, and that at tomorrows psychiatrist appointment. things go well.

 

[AnnieO]

I'm hoping you have peace at home and a complete meltdown at psychiatrist's... If all is calm at psychiatrist's, means nothing's wrong...

 

[StressedM0mma]

Thanks Step. I won't be at the psychiatrist appointment. only husband. I have my own therapist appointment. at the exact same time. So I told him to just go off. And maybe then difficult child will too. She normally just sits there and says nothing. We emailed them about easy child having to move out, and all they said was it was good that husband and I were on the same page about everything. REALLY! I have a child ******* moving out and all you have to say is good you were showing a united front!! And her therapist said she minimized what happened. Said there was family conflict but not that she is forcing her sister out. I think they should have called her to the carpet on that one during group.
Her therapist did say we needed to bring up bipolar tomorrow during the appointment. So I told my husband he needs to. His mom is bipolar. difficult child should be home in about 30 minutes. I do not know when easy child wil be home to pick up all of her stuff she needs to go stay at friends house.

 

[confuzzled]

her perspective is not the same as your perspective....just try to remember that, no matter how annoying that sounds.

 

[myeverything04]

Hugs to both You and your husband!! I think I would have flown off the deep end had my daughter done that, but we aren't past 8 years of age yet so only time will tell. Right now she is playing Lego's as the TV was taken away!