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Family of Origin (FOO) Support Thread Part 2
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 662902" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Thank you SWOT and Cedar.</p><p></p><p>My son has acted like a horrible asssssshole. Some of it could be interpreted as manic or hypomanic, but not all. A lot seems chosen, some less so.</p><p></p><p>SON has been deliberately degrading us. SWOT, you are protective of him. Believe me, he is either psychotic or he is choosing this. I prefer choice. If I have to face psychosis I will but not today.</p><p></p><p>SON started off Thursday afternoon about my neighbor who just moved (she was the lady involved in the gossip about me being a not good enough mother, based upon stuff my son told another neighbor). Actually, it still infuriates me that that latter neighbor has a son who was in jail facing 150 years of charges from various counties and the FEDS.</p><p></p><p>Why would SON start in with these women after 6 years??? I know that these women undermined me in a cruel game based on envy and ganging up, using my son. At that time I was working and earning very good money. I have mobility and freedom that neither has. People have a right to judge me or reject me if they choose but I had supposedly been their good pal. Until the gossip started.</p><p></p><p>SON, you are free to have opinions about me but I would feel better if you ask me what I did or did not do or say, before you judge me based upon what others say about me to you in a private conversation without my input. It does feel bad SON to have my own child take the side of another person and not give me the chance to explain.</p><p></p><p>My son on Thursday night asking me if it might be the case after all that I never forgave her because of racism. Later he said it was a joke.</p><p></p><p>Again after 5 years telling me that it was my fault because I never confronted with her my feelings and thoughts about her betrayal. (Because she told him I had not--more gossip about me, again.) I had attempted several times to speak with her. She was not open to it.</p><p></p><p>SON mad at M because he brought up to SON how he was making filthy everything and disregarding anything we asked him about house, and doing the opposite. SON will not tolerate being told one thing and turns everything around to criticize, target and educate us as if we are heathens and go poo-poo in our pants (well, some of us in extreme circumstances may, but it is an accident.). Then son explodes violently (and snapped in pieces my mother's wooden broom) which he excuses as a necessary means of anger management. ( Yes, I did explain forcefully that destruction of property is not an allowable anger management strategy.)</p><p></p><p>Everything, I mean everything he turns on us, me and uses it in a hostile, challenging and disrespectful manner.</p><p></p><p>I want to stress this was the worst time together I have ever experienced with my son including the time he broke my foot in Rio, ending my dancing there.</p><p></p><p>He did at some point speak what seemed to be earnestly with me that he lacks control. That he acts impulsively without thinking no matter what he tries.</p><p></p><p>I told him that he is absolutely responsible to seek and use remedy for same, so as to not target innocent people. Including me and M.</p><p></p><p>He justifies not taking medications because of side-effects, including no SSRI's, especially to male libido.</p><p></p><p>I counter that everybody has to go through a process of trying and fine-tuning medications, of acclimation for a few weeks, until one finds a regimen that works or a medication or medication combo that works. That there are medications for bi-polar or depression that have no significant or general side effects. And that often, perhaps usually in life people do not get choice 1 or 2 or 3, and have to choose between alternatives that are the best of options. i.e. when all options are undesirable to one degree or another.</p><p></p><p>And again no one has to suffer his outbursts, disrespect, aggression.</p><p></p><p>He is arrogant, uncaring and hostile. M thinks he chooses to do this to us or around us. That he controls it. I do believe this is true, to an extent. There was a period in the trip when he chose to act sweet and reasonable and charming.</p><p></p><p>On the trip to BIG CITY I heard an emergency call for conductors to the dining car. Thought a minute and realized I needed to go.</p><p></p><p>There was son surrounded by large male conductors ready to eject him from the train right then because he had verbally targeted the nice man behind the food counter.</p><p></p><p>It was terrible. I explained he was mentally ill. They asked me "can he make it to the big city without acting up again?"</p><p></p><p>Ask him, I responded, if the train needs to stop (middle of nowhere) or if he can contain himself.</p><p></p><p>My son said yes,he could contain himself for the rest of the trip (M is convinced son only did this because he knew I was with him on the train. I am not so sure). Son contained himself on the train for the rest of the trip to the BIG CITY, and on the trip back. In fact we made some nice friends (he a girl) and he acted positively charming to all on the trip back.</p><p></p><p>And again like a monster in the house when we got home.</p><p></p><p>I think M could not believe why I brought son back here. I kept thinking that he did not have money or food. And that one more night could not be worse than it already had.</p><p></p><p>When we got to the BIG CITY I was such a mess that by the time I descended into the Metro I had horrible stomach cramps I was afraid I would lose control of myself as in soiling. (I had gone to the bathroom just 10 min before.)</p><p></p><p>The idea at this point had been still to go the Hospital for the appointment to show respect to the doctor (he had been fit in and somebody else did not get an appointment slot) and get his blood work done, even if the doctor would not see him 3 hours late.</p><p></p><p>I told him I needed to stay where I was (at a coffee shop nearby). I was too ill to go. And he needed to go to the hospital without me. I got tea and read my Kindle while I waited.</p><p></p><p>The back and forth and minimum trip for him get to the hospital would have taken an hour and a half.</p><p></p><p>About 45 min later a man seated next to me said, "your son is here." I looked up.</p><p></p><p>My son insisted upon shouting at me from 12' across the cafe, with dozens of people present, and not coming closer. I was not mortified. I was furious but too defeated and sick to do much of anything at all except to tell him I would not yell to him across the cafe and if he wanted to talk he needed to approach the table.</p><p></p><p>He is acting out with me some theater with me of humiliation, distance, retribution, vengeance and disrespect.</p><p></p><p>I do not want to be a part of it. But I feel I must.</p><p></p><p>From what I can gather, he left the treatment program only because of foul ups with his Medical Coverage which are remediable. From what I can gather he is considering returning for at least a 4 month program. I think he has been spoken to about getting subsidized housing in that city which he is a very good shot at due to his SSI.</p><p></p><p>This morning he did confess he was given Vistaril for anxiety (but it also is mildly anti Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and mildly anti-psychotic. But was not taking it. He did take it (for effect) after another completely horrible exchange. more to put me in my place, I think. He said it makes him feel groggy.</p><p></p><p>I believe him but so what? Better that that exploding at people, degrading them, antagonizing them....</p><p></p><p>If you comply with the medication regimen there is a good chance your body will adjust, and you will not feel the grogginess, I said. Or there are so many other options to try. No, he lectured me there are not.</p><p></p><p>I told him at some point if he goes around treating people as does he is at risk of prison or of being harmed, even killed. No one has to accept this treatment, nor will I.</p><p></p><p>M is absolutely furious. He thinks my son deliberately does this to us to hurt and degrade us. Neither of us have ever experienced anything quite like this with my son or anybody else. This is not the son I have ever known.</p><p></p><p>My son wants to move back in with us and asked if he showed me he had 4 or 5 classes in which he was already enrolled if I would assent. (I honestly do not get how he could be so completely disengaged with reality that he could think we would shelter and reward him for the way he is treating us.) </p><p></p><p>He seems to be doing OK with the lady he is paying to stay with and she has welcomed him back several times. She is only charging him $200 a month and will not allow the marijuana at all. He now says the marijuana is not a priority although he continues to extoll its wonderfulness and assert that this is all he needs to control any psychiatric symptom he may have.</p><p></p><p>For a moment last night (I had gotten up in the night and he was locked in the master bedroom with the private bath, with the bedroom door locked) I thought I had smelled marijuana. I feared that when he had left me sick in the BIG CITY he had used the subterfuge of going to the doctor as a cover to go to the medical marijuana clinic. But his eyes did not look pink. I am divided. Because he did come up with a story that it might be old marijuana smell from his pack. Yeah right.</p><p></p><p>But that illustrates currently the nature of the relationship between us. He sees me as somebody to lie to, deceive and fool. I fear that he may do so. At any opportunity. Where did the trust go?</p><p></p><p>Somehow the part about his asking to live here got lost.</p><p></p><p>WHAAAAAT? No.</p><p></p><p>I told him this: You have to get on psychiatric medications. I will go with you to a town an hour away where there is a satellite clinic of this BIG CITY hospital. I heard the Psychiatry Dept is good. He agreed to an evaluation. Whether or not he consents or complies with medications I have no control over, but I must at least try.</p><p></p><p>I fear somebody will kill him or he will go to prison for a long time if he keeps this up.</p><p></p><p>He was evidently throwing or smearing cut oranges all over the floors and walls in the kitchen. M was beside himself when he came home.</p><p></p><p>I am overwhelmed by what I went through. I am appalled by the risks posed by his behavior, which I fear are greater and more imminent.</p><p></p><p>Nothing at all got done of Friday except a disaster. 14 hours. I came home with the most searing pain in my abdomen, like doubled up. An abdomen that was perfectly fine in the morning. It got better with tea of Aloe Vera and Mint and locking myself in my bedroom.</p><p></p><p>So what is better? I am absolutely clear he cannot be near my house. That is clear.</p><p></p><p>I am absolutely clear that any help to him beyond connecting to treatment would be to get in the way and enable him. He has a clear route to subsidized housing and supports in the BIG CITY. He is connected to treatment there. If he decides to change there is everything there in that city he would need in order to do it.</p><p></p><p>I am absolutely clear that the best thing for me and for him is that I cross the country.</p><p></p><p>M says he thinks my son wants to go too. He may but he would have to take a cut in SSI of $200 and I doubt if he would consider this. But it seems clear he looked into the benefit amount. I do not want my son anywhere near me in an urban metropolis where he baits people and does not control his behavior.</p><p></p><p>I am absolutely motivated to go cross country (without son and without son in my house) and the last of my doctors' appointments is 9/18 so I do not see a reason for not leaving by the end of that month.</p><p></p><p>There are so many different kinds of pain that I feel now. Fear and concern for my son, central.</p><p></p><p>There is also shame and confusion how I could be so out of touch with his condition, motivations, conduct.</p><p></p><p>There is shame and confusion about what I did to him to cause him to engage in this vendetta of control, domination, vengeance, towards me and M.</p><p></p><p>After he left here (finally) he called a bit later and told me he never, ever wanted to see me again and this time he would follow through.</p><p></p><p>10 minutes later he called back and said he did not mean it.</p><p></p><p>The idea is that (my idea) he call and try to straighten out the two hospital bills, and call the liver doctor to get paper work for blood draw to do here, and get another appointment.</p><p></p><p>I am beginning to think that I cannot participate with him in liver treatment. He will do it or not.</p><p></p><p>As far as psychiatric treatment (medications and an evaluation) I think that it is so urgent that it justifies my enduring anything to help him address this.</p><p></p><p>I am not interested so much in diagnoses of my son. His diagnoses are difficult at best to determine by those who know him.</p><p></p><p>I am most interested in what my proper and best role is right now.</p><p></p><p>I cannot tell you how furious is M. I think he is mad at me too, and holds me responsible. I think he thinks that I allow my son to tyrannize us. And no matter how angry I get and how insistent with my son that he reverse his behaviors toward us or leave, M thinks I have not acted strongly enough.</p><p></p><p>The one thing I am coming to that might be good is that I am seeing that my unhinged behavior towards my son is and was quite likely the response that would be elicited in anybody that was treated as my son is treating me and M.</p><p></p><p>So, that was my Happy 2 days.</p><p></p><p>M is furious with me, too. And I with him. I think he sees himself as the victim in all of this. I kind of really am hating him. I think he thinks I am self-indulgent. I feel like ending the relationship. And that is the truth. I feel so outraged that M can blame me. I feel like blasting him back with all the things I hate about our situation that he caused. But even I see this may not be the best strategy right now.</p><p></p><p>PS The reason M feels so convinced that everything is my fault is because I let the cat dominate me.</p><p></p><p>PSS This is how alone I feel right now: If you all knew my sister, you would side with her. Against me.</p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 662902, member: 18958"] Thank you SWOT and Cedar. My son has acted like a horrible asssssshole. Some of it could be interpreted as manic or hypomanic, but not all. A lot seems chosen, some less so. SON has been deliberately degrading us. SWOT, you are protective of him. Believe me, he is either psychotic or he is choosing this. I prefer choice. If I have to face psychosis I will but not today. SON started off Thursday afternoon about my neighbor who just moved (she was the lady involved in the gossip about me being a not good enough mother, based upon stuff my son told another neighbor). Actually, it still infuriates me that that latter neighbor has a son who was in jail facing 150 years of charges from various counties and the FEDS. Why would SON start in with these women after 6 years??? I know that these women undermined me in a cruel game based on envy and ganging up, using my son. At that time I was working and earning very good money. I have mobility and freedom that neither has. People have a right to judge me or reject me if they choose but I had supposedly been their good pal. Until the gossip started. SON, you are free to have opinions about me but I would feel better if you ask me what I did or did not do or say, before you judge me based upon what others say about me to you in a private conversation without my input. It does feel bad SON to have my own child take the side of another person and not give me the chance to explain. My son on Thursday night asking me if it might be the case after all that I never forgave her because of racism. Later he said it was a joke. Again after 5 years telling me that it was my fault because I never confronted with her my feelings and thoughts about her betrayal. (Because she told him I had not--more gossip about me, again.) I had attempted several times to speak with her. She was not open to it. SON mad at M because he brought up to SON how he was making filthy everything and disregarding anything we asked him about house, and doing the opposite. SON will not tolerate being told one thing and turns everything around to criticize, target and educate us as if we are heathens and go poo-poo in our pants (well, some of us in extreme circumstances may, but it is an accident.). Then son explodes violently (and snapped in pieces my mother's wooden broom) which he excuses as a necessary means of anger management. ( Yes, I did explain forcefully that destruction of property is not an allowable anger management strategy.) Everything, I mean everything he turns on us, me and uses it in a hostile, challenging and disrespectful manner. I want to stress this was the worst time together I have ever experienced with my son including the time he broke my foot in Rio, ending my dancing there. He did at some point speak what seemed to be earnestly with me that he lacks control. That he acts impulsively without thinking no matter what he tries. I told him that he is absolutely responsible to seek and use remedy for same, so as to not target innocent people. Including me and M. He justifies not taking medications because of side-effects, including no SSRI's, especially to male libido. I counter that everybody has to go through a process of trying and fine-tuning medications, of acclimation for a few weeks, until one finds a regimen that works or a medication or medication combo that works. That there are medications for bi-polar or depression that have no significant or general side effects. And that often, perhaps usually in life people do not get choice 1 or 2 or 3, and have to choose between alternatives that are the best of options. i.e. when all options are undesirable to one degree or another. And again no one has to suffer his outbursts, disrespect, aggression. He is arrogant, uncaring and hostile. M thinks he chooses to do this to us or around us. That he controls it. I do believe this is true, to an extent. There was a period in the trip when he chose to act sweet and reasonable and charming. On the trip to BIG CITY I heard an emergency call for conductors to the dining car. Thought a minute and realized I needed to go. There was son surrounded by large male conductors ready to eject him from the train right then because he had verbally targeted the nice man behind the food counter. It was terrible. I explained he was mentally ill. They asked me "can he make it to the big city without acting up again?" Ask him, I responded, if the train needs to stop (middle of nowhere) or if he can contain himself. My son said yes,he could contain himself for the rest of the trip (M is convinced son only did this because he knew I was with him on the train. I am not so sure). Son contained himself on the train for the rest of the trip to the BIG CITY, and on the trip back. In fact we made some nice friends (he a girl) and he acted positively charming to all on the trip back. And again like a monster in the house when we got home. I think M could not believe why I brought son back here. I kept thinking that he did not have money or food. And that one more night could not be worse than it already had. When we got to the BIG CITY I was such a mess that by the time I descended into the Metro I had horrible stomach cramps I was afraid I would lose control of myself as in soiling. (I had gone to the bathroom just 10 min before.) The idea at this point had been still to go the Hospital for the appointment to show respect to the doctor (he had been fit in and somebody else did not get an appointment slot) and get his blood work done, even if the doctor would not see him 3 hours late. I told him I needed to stay where I was (at a coffee shop nearby). I was too ill to go. And he needed to go to the hospital without me. I got tea and read my Kindle while I waited. The back and forth and minimum trip for him get to the hospital would have taken an hour and a half. About 45 min later a man seated next to me said, "your son is here." I looked up. My son insisted upon shouting at me from 12' across the cafe, with dozens of people present, and not coming closer. I was not mortified. I was furious but too defeated and sick to do much of anything at all except to tell him I would not yell to him across the cafe and if he wanted to talk he needed to approach the table. He is acting out with me some theater with me of humiliation, distance, retribution, vengeance and disrespect. I do not want to be a part of it. But I feel I must. From what I can gather, he left the treatment program only because of foul ups with his Medical Coverage which are remediable. From what I can gather he is considering returning for at least a 4 month program. I think he has been spoken to about getting subsidized housing in that city which he is a very good shot at due to his SSI. This morning he did confess he was given Vistaril for anxiety (but it also is mildly anti Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and mildly anti-psychotic. But was not taking it. He did take it (for effect) after another completely horrible exchange. more to put me in my place, I think. He said it makes him feel groggy. I believe him but so what? Better that that exploding at people, degrading them, antagonizing them.... If you comply with the medication regimen there is a good chance your body will adjust, and you will not feel the grogginess, I said. Or there are so many other options to try. No, he lectured me there are not. I told him at some point if he goes around treating people as does he is at risk of prison or of being harmed, even killed. No one has to accept this treatment, nor will I. M is absolutely furious. He thinks my son deliberately does this to us to hurt and degrade us. Neither of us have ever experienced anything quite like this with my son or anybody else. This is not the son I have ever known. My son wants to move back in with us and asked if he showed me he had 4 or 5 classes in which he was already enrolled if I would assent. (I honestly do not get how he could be so completely disengaged with reality that he could think we would shelter and reward him for the way he is treating us.) He seems to be doing OK with the lady he is paying to stay with and she has welcomed him back several times. She is only charging him $200 a month and will not allow the marijuana at all. He now says the marijuana is not a priority although he continues to extoll its wonderfulness and assert that this is all he needs to control any psychiatric symptom he may have. For a moment last night (I had gotten up in the night and he was locked in the master bedroom with the private bath, with the bedroom door locked) I thought I had smelled marijuana. I feared that when he had left me sick in the BIG CITY he had used the subterfuge of going to the doctor as a cover to go to the medical marijuana clinic. But his eyes did not look pink. I am divided. Because he did come up with a story that it might be old marijuana smell from his pack. Yeah right. But that illustrates currently the nature of the relationship between us. He sees me as somebody to lie to, deceive and fool. I fear that he may do so. At any opportunity. Where did the trust go? Somehow the part about his asking to live here got lost. WHAAAAAT? No. I told him this: You have to get on psychiatric medications. I will go with you to a town an hour away where there is a satellite clinic of this BIG CITY hospital. I heard the Psychiatry Dept is good. He agreed to an evaluation. Whether or not he consents or complies with medications I have no control over, but I must at least try. I fear somebody will kill him or he will go to prison for a long time if he keeps this up. He was evidently throwing or smearing cut oranges all over the floors and walls in the kitchen. M was beside himself when he came home. I am overwhelmed by what I went through. I am appalled by the risks posed by his behavior, which I fear are greater and more imminent. Nothing at all got done of Friday except a disaster. 14 hours. I came home with the most searing pain in my abdomen, like doubled up. An abdomen that was perfectly fine in the morning. It got better with tea of Aloe Vera and Mint and locking myself in my bedroom. So what is better? I am absolutely clear he cannot be near my house. That is clear. I am absolutely clear that any help to him beyond connecting to treatment would be to get in the way and enable him. He has a clear route to subsidized housing and supports in the BIG CITY. He is connected to treatment there. If he decides to change there is everything there in that city he would need in order to do it. I am absolutely clear that the best thing for me and for him is that I cross the country. M says he thinks my son wants to go too. He may but he would have to take a cut in SSI of $200 and I doubt if he would consider this. But it seems clear he looked into the benefit amount. I do not want my son anywhere near me in an urban metropolis where he baits people and does not control his behavior. I am absolutely motivated to go cross country (without son and without son in my house) and the last of my doctors' appointments is 9/18 so I do not see a reason for not leaving by the end of that month. There are so many different kinds of pain that I feel now. Fear and concern for my son, central. There is also shame and confusion how I could be so out of touch with his condition, motivations, conduct. There is shame and confusion about what I did to him to cause him to engage in this vendetta of control, domination, vengeance, towards me and M. After he left here (finally) he called a bit later and told me he never, ever wanted to see me again and this time he would follow through. 10 minutes later he called back and said he did not mean it. The idea is that (my idea) he call and try to straighten out the two hospital bills, and call the liver doctor to get paper work for blood draw to do here, and get another appointment. I am beginning to think that I cannot participate with him in liver treatment. He will do it or not. As far as psychiatric treatment (medications and an evaluation) I think that it is so urgent that it justifies my enduring anything to help him address this. I am not interested so much in diagnoses of my son. His diagnoses are difficult at best to determine by those who know him. I am most interested in what my proper and best role is right now. I cannot tell you how furious is M. I think he is mad at me too, and holds me responsible. I think he thinks that I allow my son to tyrannize us. And no matter how angry I get and how insistent with my son that he reverse his behaviors toward us or leave, M thinks I have not acted strongly enough. The one thing I am coming to that might be good is that I am seeing that my unhinged behavior towards my son is and was quite likely the response that would be elicited in anybody that was treated as my son is treating me and M. So, that was my Happy 2 days. M is furious with me, too. And I with him. I think he sees himself as the victim in all of this. I kind of really am hating him. I think he thinks I am self-indulgent. I feel like ending the relationship. And that is the truth. I feel so outraged that M can blame me. I feel like blasting him back with all the things I hate about our situation that he caused. But even I see this may not be the best strategy right now. PS The reason M feels so convinced that everything is my fault is because I let the cat dominate me. PSS This is how alone I feel right now: If you all knew my sister, you would side with her. Against me. COPA [/QUOTE]
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