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Family of Origin (FOO) Support Thread Part 2
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<blockquote data-quote="BusynMember" data-source="post: 662955" data-attributes="member: 1550"><p>Copa, this is something you need to hear as we share a common bond of adopted children, older than infants. It is not the same as giving birth or adopting an infant.</p><p></p><p>My son Goneboy was the best behaved, nicest mannered, sweetest boy I'd ever met until he wasn't. This occurred when he met his current wife and happened rather quickly and I believe it was because she was the only person he felt safe talking about his anger to. This was a good thing for him, even if it did not turn out the way I would have liked it to have turned out. He did need somebody to talk to. He was very, very close to Princess in t he way of doing social things with her. He liked her pep and happy demeaner and friendliness and they were together a lot. But he did not talk to her about anything. Princess tells me now, and even used to tell me way in the old days, when she was still a teen and he was in his early 20's, "Mom, I know you don't think so, but something is really wrong with Goneboy."</p><p></p><p>"What?"</p><p></p><p>"He has no emotions. He is very cold. He's a robot."</p><p></p><p>Me laughing. "Oh, come on. He's very kind to you."</p><p></p><p>"Not really. He's not mean, he's not anything. He's dead inside."</p><p></p><p>I wish I had listened to her warning. I did not see this part of him because he hid it from me, but she was around him much more than I was and she knew.</p><p></p><p>After he met his wife, I am just going to assume he started letting his anger out. His anger was that he was thought of as such a nice guy and everyone thought he was so swell and so great and so mannerly and so smart. I'll never forget the day he gave me a smirk and said, "But that's not the real me. I'm not nice."</p><p></p><p>I think I humored him and made a joke, but don't remember exactly.</p><p></p><p>He said, "I'm not. You just think I am, but I'm not nice." The way he said it the second time, dead on eye contact, I knew he meant it. Soon after he started telling us about the things we had to do in order to be able to be around him, in his life, including severely restricting contact because he was a Christian and his wife was No. 1 and we did not really matter that much anymore. He did not speak those words exactly. But that's w hat he meant.</p><p></p><p>He was never nice after that. He never explained anything to any of us beyond what I just typed, including my ex, who he still sees, but in limited time blocks. He dumped his sister first, the person he had depended on the most and perhaps that was because he hinted at them getting married, and Princess thinks he meant it, and she turned him down. Apparently he thought they could marry because they were not biologically related. He did not see her as a sister. He did not see us as his family, not really. But he did not tell us until about the same age as your son is.</p><p></p><p>Maybe if he had fallen in love with somebody who was not as hostile toward all of us, including ex, as his wife is, things would have been gentler for all of us, but it is what it is. This sweet little boy, with a twinkle in his eyes, great jokes, an enormous IQ and so incredibly handsome (really, he is still so handsome last I checked his FB). He told us he is not nice. He never was nice. It was an act to please us because as a child we did have control over him and he had learned in the orphanage how to get favorable treatment from adults. He was way smart and he knew.</p><p></p><p>His wedding was a nightmare of her relatives telling me what a wonderful job I did raising him, what a NICE man he was.</p><p></p><p>Now he was playing to them as he wanted his wife's family to accept and like him and he knew how to do it. And, as things were going south in our relationship, everyone was telling me in the receiving line how wonderful a mother I am, as if I had one thing to do with who Goneboy turned out to be.</p><p></p><p>I had nothing to do with it, Copa. He does not have my DNA. He did not meet me until he was six years old. That's six formative years we did not have together. He had often said, "I was already myself before I came here. I am who I am because of me, not because of you or dad." He said it without emotion. Looking back, Princess was right and he said many very emotional things without any feeling. He'd just say it, no expression, no inflection in his voice. He could be charming and friendly and lovable when he wanted to be, but that was not the real him.</p><p></p><p>To this day he is not THAT close to his wife. On FB, until I stopped doing FB, she would lament, "He is always at work." "He works twelve hour days. I miss him so much. Honey, I love you."</p><p></p><p>Copa, it is impossible for you to have planted the seeds that made this son of yours the person he is. He had the beginnings of his formative years before he met you and probably never felt soft hands and kisses and normal baby love that normal parents bestow upon their children. He had his birthparents DNA and they were not too stable. He had a nervous system that was damaged from drugs and alcohol even before he was born. Goneboy did NOT have that and he STILL had problems. Serious ones, now that I look back. His birthfamily, who he knows now, is intelligent and stable. They are all brilliant. There is no mental illness. They are healthy and alive. Yet he was unable to form normal connections with adults because of the orphanage. And he hid it for as long as he wanted to hide it. It is significant when a parent is cut out of his parent's in his infancy and developing years and if his birthparent takes care of herself during her pregnancy.</p><p></p><p>How on earth can you blame yourself for how he is? As a child he was happy and you kept him busy and when school got tough you changed schools. Did he have many friends? Bond with people easily besides you? Did he have any red flags before this?</p><p></p><p>Listen:</p><p></p><p>As an adult, he wants to know his identity. Adopted kids may love us to death...I am sure Jumper and Sonic and Princess live me totally. But I am not their identity. I raised them. But their identity is who their birthparents are. Goneboy, more than the others, was obsessed with his ethnicity and after he was meanly dumped by a white girl that he had a huge crush on (and it destroyed him) that is when he got even more interested in his own ethnicity. He never dated another girl who was not Chinese. Ever.</p><p></p><p>I think Goneboy, at his age and with his contacting his birth family, is probably over his identity issues, but your son can not do much to learn about his identity if his parents are dead. Have you ever traveled to take him to his country of birth? I know Goneboy goes to China a lot. He can afford it and does business there too. His wife is from China. He is not, but it is a close match to where he was born and he has been there too.</p><p></p><p>Copa, do what you want to do with your life. Enjoy it. Don't let ANYONE blame you for your son. They don't even need to know about him. It's your private business. Did you ever call to maybe see a therapist for yourself? That bed is your enemy. If you don't get out of it, depression will eat you up in it's giant jaws. It's the bed taking away your identity.</p><p></p><p>by the way, I learned that an identity can include, but is is not limited to "I am a mother." That is actually temporary in a way. Our kids grow fast and we need to think beyond them. Some leave home for other countries. Some join the service. Some don't like us. Some just get busy with life and we don't see them much even if they are close to us geographically. Our identity needs to be more than "I am a mother."</p><p></p><p>I know you are bright and talented. That is who you are. The mother part, yes, you will always be a mother. But your MOTHERING days...days of actively mothering....are over as are mine. Those early busy days of running the kids here and there and everywhere are gone when they grow up.</p><p></p><p>Copa, Jumper has been home all summer and pretty quiet at first and we did a lot together. I relished it. When a child is 19, it can always be the last time you are THAT close. Her friends are in another city, but then she met a boy and she is never home again. And she reconnected with her "close by" friends too. And the second half of summer, she is not here. She is good about texting us where she is out of courtesy, but it is no longer my job to tell her she can or can not go out. At least, I don't think it is. So the only time I'm doing some mothering is when I'm with my grands and that's not too often. And I don't want to 100% mother again so I'm glad. I so enjoy them and love them when I see them. I'm so happy I can return them and enjoy them rather than angst over them.</p><p></p><p>One day you may be a grandma. Your son could find somebody and she may like you and that can change everything and often does. A very kind child can turn mean if her/his spouse doesn't like you and she/he loves the spouse enough to turn away from you. Or the opposite. There is hope.</p><p></p><p>Where there is life there is hope.</p><p></p><p>Your son was very formed as a person before you met him at age two. He had been abused by his birthmother in her womb and probably neglected in the orphanage. Princess was lucky. She had as very loving foster mom. I remember going to an adoptive parent meeting of mothers mostly who'd adopted babies from Korea. We were sitting on the floor and our little toddlers were playing and we had a long discussion about how much better socialized and reactive the kids who had been in foster care (which in Korea ia only bestowed upon the very best mothers and it's a paid job) as opposed to those who came from orphanages. I wrote a thank you letter to Princesses foster mom because Princess came to us fat, spoiled and all smiles and she bonded right away, cuddled right into me. Apparently that is not what happened to the orphanage babies when they came.</p><p></p><p>Maybe they were stiff, like I was when my mother tried to hold ME.</p><p></p><p>"When I first held you, I felt nothing, absolutely nothing."</p><p></p><p>Maybe the babies felt the same way. If they were older, it is hard to know how they felt. Goneboy hugged us when he first met us. He knew how to be charming. He smiled and started doing a silly dance. Bart was desperate to get attention from him. Goneboy had so much charisma. How much was real?</p><p></p><p>Ok, so I wrote a novel.</p><p></p><p>I just hate how you blame yourself when, if you think rationally, it doesn't make sense. It makes sense that your son is confused and angry right now and possibly wishing he had a firmer grip on who he was, where he came from, how he got from here to there, and why his birthparents didn't take better care of him.</p><p></p><p>I'm very grateful that Sonic is my only adopted kids with no interest in his birth family and no anger toward them either. All of my other adopted children did care and asked questions and at times were sad about the abandonment. Just because adoption was not spoken about does not mean that the child, now adult, did not/does not think about it and have many questions. And this is not your fault either.</p><p></p><p>It's just the way it is.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BusynMember, post: 662955, member: 1550"] Copa, this is something you need to hear as we share a common bond of adopted children, older than infants. It is not the same as giving birth or adopting an infant. My son Goneboy was the best behaved, nicest mannered, sweetest boy I'd ever met until he wasn't. This occurred when he met his current wife and happened rather quickly and I believe it was because she was the only person he felt safe talking about his anger to. This was a good thing for him, even if it did not turn out the way I would have liked it to have turned out. He did need somebody to talk to. He was very, very close to Princess in t he way of doing social things with her. He liked her pep and happy demeaner and friendliness and they were together a lot. But he did not talk to her about anything. Princess tells me now, and even used to tell me way in the old days, when she was still a teen and he was in his early 20's, "Mom, I know you don't think so, but something is really wrong with Goneboy." "What?" "He has no emotions. He is very cold. He's a robot." Me laughing. "Oh, come on. He's very kind to you." "Not really. He's not mean, he's not anything. He's dead inside." I wish I had listened to her warning. I did not see this part of him because he hid it from me, but she was around him much more than I was and she knew. After he met his wife, I am just going to assume he started letting his anger out. His anger was that he was thought of as such a nice guy and everyone thought he was so swell and so great and so mannerly and so smart. I'll never forget the day he gave me a smirk and said, "But that's not the real me. I'm not nice." I think I humored him and made a joke, but don't remember exactly. He said, "I'm not. You just think I am, but I'm not nice." The way he said it the second time, dead on eye contact, I knew he meant it. Soon after he started telling us about the things we had to do in order to be able to be around him, in his life, including severely restricting contact because he was a Christian and his wife was No. 1 and we did not really matter that much anymore. He did not speak those words exactly. But that's w hat he meant. He was never nice after that. He never explained anything to any of us beyond what I just typed, including my ex, who he still sees, but in limited time blocks. He dumped his sister first, the person he had depended on the most and perhaps that was because he hinted at them getting married, and Princess thinks he meant it, and she turned him down. Apparently he thought they could marry because they were not biologically related. He did not see her as a sister. He did not see us as his family, not really. But he did not tell us until about the same age as your son is. Maybe if he had fallen in love with somebody who was not as hostile toward all of us, including ex, as his wife is, things would have been gentler for all of us, but it is what it is. This sweet little boy, with a twinkle in his eyes, great jokes, an enormous IQ and so incredibly handsome (really, he is still so handsome last I checked his FB). He told us he is not nice. He never was nice. It was an act to please us because as a child we did have control over him and he had learned in the orphanage how to get favorable treatment from adults. He was way smart and he knew. His wedding was a nightmare of her relatives telling me what a wonderful job I did raising him, what a NICE man he was. Now he was playing to them as he wanted his wife's family to accept and like him and he knew how to do it. And, as things were going south in our relationship, everyone was telling me in the receiving line how wonderful a mother I am, as if I had one thing to do with who Goneboy turned out to be. I had nothing to do with it, Copa. He does not have my DNA. He did not meet me until he was six years old. That's six formative years we did not have together. He had often said, "I was already myself before I came here. I am who I am because of me, not because of you or dad." He said it without emotion. Looking back, Princess was right and he said many very emotional things without any feeling. He'd just say it, no expression, no inflection in his voice. He could be charming and friendly and lovable when he wanted to be, but that was not the real him. To this day he is not THAT close to his wife. On FB, until I stopped doing FB, she would lament, "He is always at work." "He works twelve hour days. I miss him so much. Honey, I love you." Copa, it is impossible for you to have planted the seeds that made this son of yours the person he is. He had the beginnings of his formative years before he met you and probably never felt soft hands and kisses and normal baby love that normal parents bestow upon their children. He had his birthparents DNA and they were not too stable. He had a nervous system that was damaged from drugs and alcohol even before he was born. Goneboy did NOT have that and he STILL had problems. Serious ones, now that I look back. His birthfamily, who he knows now, is intelligent and stable. They are all brilliant. There is no mental illness. They are healthy and alive. Yet he was unable to form normal connections with adults because of the orphanage. And he hid it for as long as he wanted to hide it. It is significant when a parent is cut out of his parent's in his infancy and developing years and if his birthparent takes care of herself during her pregnancy. How on earth can you blame yourself for how he is? As a child he was happy and you kept him busy and when school got tough you changed schools. Did he have many friends? Bond with people easily besides you? Did he have any red flags before this? Listen: As an adult, he wants to know his identity. Adopted kids may love us to death...I am sure Jumper and Sonic and Princess live me totally. But I am not their identity. I raised them. But their identity is who their birthparents are. Goneboy, more than the others, was obsessed with his ethnicity and after he was meanly dumped by a white girl that he had a huge crush on (and it destroyed him) that is when he got even more interested in his own ethnicity. He never dated another girl who was not Chinese. Ever. I think Goneboy, at his age and with his contacting his birth family, is probably over his identity issues, but your son can not do much to learn about his identity if his parents are dead. Have you ever traveled to take him to his country of birth? I know Goneboy goes to China a lot. He can afford it and does business there too. His wife is from China. He is not, but it is a close match to where he was born and he has been there too. Copa, do what you want to do with your life. Enjoy it. Don't let ANYONE blame you for your son. They don't even need to know about him. It's your private business. Did you ever call to maybe see a therapist for yourself? That bed is your enemy. If you don't get out of it, depression will eat you up in it's giant jaws. It's the bed taking away your identity. by the way, I learned that an identity can include, but is is not limited to "I am a mother." That is actually temporary in a way. Our kids grow fast and we need to think beyond them. Some leave home for other countries. Some join the service. Some don't like us. Some just get busy with life and we don't see them much even if they are close to us geographically. Our identity needs to be more than "I am a mother." I know you are bright and talented. That is who you are. The mother part, yes, you will always be a mother. But your MOTHERING days...days of actively mothering....are over as are mine. Those early busy days of running the kids here and there and everywhere are gone when they grow up. Copa, Jumper has been home all summer and pretty quiet at first and we did a lot together. I relished it. When a child is 19, it can always be the last time you are THAT close. Her friends are in another city, but then she met a boy and she is never home again. And she reconnected with her "close by" friends too. And the second half of summer, she is not here. She is good about texting us where she is out of courtesy, but it is no longer my job to tell her she can or can not go out. At least, I don't think it is. So the only time I'm doing some mothering is when I'm with my grands and that's not too often. And I don't want to 100% mother again so I'm glad. I so enjoy them and love them when I see them. I'm so happy I can return them and enjoy them rather than angst over them. One day you may be a grandma. Your son could find somebody and she may like you and that can change everything and often does. A very kind child can turn mean if her/his spouse doesn't like you and she/he loves the spouse enough to turn away from you. Or the opposite. There is hope. Where there is life there is hope. Your son was very formed as a person before you met him at age two. He had been abused by his birthmother in her womb and probably neglected in the orphanage. Princess was lucky. She had as very loving foster mom. I remember going to an adoptive parent meeting of mothers mostly who'd adopted babies from Korea. We were sitting on the floor and our little toddlers were playing and we had a long discussion about how much better socialized and reactive the kids who had been in foster care (which in Korea ia only bestowed upon the very best mothers and it's a paid job) as opposed to those who came from orphanages. I wrote a thank you letter to Princesses foster mom because Princess came to us fat, spoiled and all smiles and she bonded right away, cuddled right into me. Apparently that is not what happened to the orphanage babies when they came. Maybe they were stiff, like I was when my mother tried to hold ME. "When I first held you, I felt nothing, absolutely nothing." Maybe the babies felt the same way. If they were older, it is hard to know how they felt. Goneboy hugged us when he first met us. He knew how to be charming. He smiled and started doing a silly dance. Bart was desperate to get attention from him. Goneboy had so much charisma. How much was real? Ok, so I wrote a novel. I just hate how you blame yourself when, if you think rationally, it doesn't make sense. It makes sense that your son is confused and angry right now and possibly wishing he had a firmer grip on who he was, where he came from, how he got from here to there, and why his birthparents didn't take better care of him. I'm very grateful that Sonic is my only adopted kids with no interest in his birth family and no anger toward them either. All of my other adopted children did care and asked questions and at times were sad about the abandonment. Just because adoption was not spoken about does not mean that the child, now adult, did not/does not think about it and have many questions. And this is not your fault either. It's just the way it is. [/QUOTE]
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