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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 661555" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>What was the fit about, Lil?</p><p></p><p>What does that look like, when he is having a tantrum?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am sorry, Lil. I think D C does understand, and that his words regarding the grands' reactions are a manipulation designed to inflame the mother heart in you and get you on his "side".</p><p></p><p>It worked.</p><p></p><p>D C knows the bewildered-child words to say. In telling you that whatever he undeniably did do was not his intention, he is excusing himself and blaming the elderly grands for overreacting.</p><p></p><p>He is telling you he is a good guy, their reactions are out of line, and none of this is his fault.</p><p></p><p>Another word for fault: responsibility.</p><p></p><p>Until he takes responsibility Lil, your D C cannot choose a different path.</p><p></p><p>Your D C is triangulating with masterful skill, Lil. He wants you in warrior mom mode and on his side.</p><p></p><p>I think there is more to this story.</p><p></p><p>You can try to learn what it is. If it were an easy thing to explain, someone would already have told you. There is fear there, Lil.</p><p></p><p>This is your child. Whether he understands why family feels this way or not (and I'm sorry Lil, but I think that he does), something has changed to the point that their feelings for D C have changed and you were not there to see it <em>but your </em></p><p><em>D C knows what it is</em>.</p><p></p><p>Unless Jabber's family is dysfunctional in the sense that my FOO is, not a one of them wants to hurt you or to see your D C hurt. In my family of origin, mine and D H pain and confusion were interpreted as vulnerability and things progressed from that point. In a healthy family, your reaching out for the truth together can result in a source of strength and support for you and Jabber. If you feel the family is healthy, this would be a time to come together to figure out what happened. Who heard what, who saw what, how they feel about that.</p><p></p><p>Then you will know what they know.</p><p></p><p>There is no other way to know what they know.</p><p></p><p>And I think you and Jabber need to know what changed the family's response to your son.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is not taking responsibility; this is blaming and justification. </p><p></p><p>This is triangulation.</p><p></p><p>Everything is not better. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"...the girl has given him money for a taxi and hotel...."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am sorry, Lil and Jabber. Your son needs to understand that <em>he</em> has betrayed the family's trust. It isn't about whether he feels loved or accepted. It is about what he did.</p><p></p><p>Lil and Jabber, these are the consequences that happen to our D C in real life. </p><p></p><p>It hurts to be the parent when our children run up against people who, though they love them, do not love them as parents love ~ blindly, with belief and sincerity and great fondness and hope.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It would be best to learn the why behind these behaviors, Lil and Jabber.</p><p></p><p>I am deeply sorry for the pain of it. Neither of you deserves what is happening.</p><p></p><p>But it is happening. </p><p></p><p>There is something here you are not being told. You cannot proceed correctly ~ not with your family and not with your son, either ~ until you know what it is.</p><p></p><p>There is something hitting me wrong about how little your son understood about why his grandparents were upset; how he could not understand they were afraid for their money and maybe, their lives. It bothers me how willing D C was to let bygones be bygones as long as he got what he wanted and that what he wanted was to get to the girlfriend's...but now he would have to go there with no money because bad family made him leave for nothing he understands. Suddenly, out of a clear blue sky, they don't like him; they don't treat him like family. It bothers me that you could not talk to the grandma at length because D C kept popping up. </p><p></p><p>You need the whole story, Lil and Jabber.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>D H family was off in ten thousand directions over the mother's illnesses, manipulations, doctor's visits, diet, who did what to whom and who did more and on and on it went. We started a family email. Everyone knew how everyone else felt, straight from the horse's mouth. Two of the sibs began corresponding separately with one another. All the other sibs knew and called them on it. </p><p></p><p>The two who were building an alliance on the side were the ones with the biggest mouths and the least practical input in money or time.</p><p></p><p>Over time, that changed.</p><p></p><p>So, that might be a way for you to learn what the family knows that you do not know.</p><p></p><p>It would be important that you two come at it together, and from the same page. The question is what happened with D C to change their feelings toward him. You are looking to fill in the pieces, because the things that happened hurt and surprised you and the situation is so unusual for this close family that you know there has to be more to the story. That you need to know what it is, and that you have all come through worse things in the past, so tell us what you know or what you heard. It would be best not to come at it from the position of having been wronged or hurt. </p><p></p><p>Unless the family is dysfunctional, something has happened with D C that you know nothing about.</p><p></p><p>And in "popping up" through your entire conversation with grandma, D C made sure grandma would not tell you.</p><p></p><p>You two can meet this challenge beautifully if you stay on the same page and hold the correct attitude.</p><p></p><p>It will be a hard thing.</p><p></p><p>You can do it.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 661555, member: 17461"] What was the fit about, Lil? What does that look like, when he is having a tantrum? I am sorry, Lil. I think D C does understand, and that his words regarding the grands' reactions are a manipulation designed to inflame the mother heart in you and get you on his "side". It worked. D C knows the bewildered-child words to say. In telling you that whatever he undeniably did do was not his intention, he is excusing himself and blaming the elderly grands for overreacting. He is telling you he is a good guy, their reactions are out of line, and none of this is his fault. Another word for fault: responsibility. Until he takes responsibility Lil, your D C cannot choose a different path. Your D C is triangulating with masterful skill, Lil. He wants you in warrior mom mode and on his side. I think there is more to this story. You can try to learn what it is. If it were an easy thing to explain, someone would already have told you. There is fear there, Lil. This is your child. Whether he understands why family feels this way or not (and I'm sorry Lil, but I think that he does), something has changed to the point that their feelings for D C have changed and you were not there to see it [I]but your D C knows what it is[/I]. Unless Jabber's family is dysfunctional in the sense that my FOO is, not a one of them wants to hurt you or to see your D C hurt. In my family of origin, mine and D H pain and confusion were interpreted as vulnerability and things progressed from that point. In a healthy family, your reaching out for the truth together can result in a source of strength and support for you and Jabber. If you feel the family is healthy, this would be a time to come together to figure out what happened. Who heard what, who saw what, how they feel about that. Then you will know what they know. There is no other way to know what they know. And I think you and Jabber need to know what changed the family's response to your son. *** This is not taking responsibility; this is blaming and justification. This is triangulation. Everything is not better. "...the girl has given him money for a taxi and hotel...." I am sorry, Lil and Jabber. Your son needs to understand that [I]he[/I] has betrayed the family's trust. It isn't about whether he feels loved or accepted. It is about what he did. Lil and Jabber, these are the consequences that happen to our D C in real life. It hurts to be the parent when our children run up against people who, though they love them, do not love them as parents love ~ blindly, with belief and sincerity and great fondness and hope. It would be best to learn the why behind these behaviors, Lil and Jabber. I am deeply sorry for the pain of it. Neither of you deserves what is happening. But it is happening. There is something here you are not being told. You cannot proceed correctly ~ not with your family and not with your son, either ~ until you know what it is. There is something hitting me wrong about how little your son understood about why his grandparents were upset; how he could not understand they were afraid for their money and maybe, their lives. It bothers me how willing D C was to let bygones be bygones as long as he got what he wanted and that what he wanted was to get to the girlfriend's...but now he would have to go there with no money because bad family made him leave for nothing he understands. Suddenly, out of a clear blue sky, they don't like him; they don't treat him like family. It bothers me that you could not talk to the grandma at length because D C kept popping up. You need the whole story, Lil and Jabber. *** D H family was off in ten thousand directions over the mother's illnesses, manipulations, doctor's visits, diet, who did what to whom and who did more and on and on it went. We started a family email. Everyone knew how everyone else felt, straight from the horse's mouth. Two of the sibs began corresponding separately with one another. All the other sibs knew and called them on it. The two who were building an alliance on the side were the ones with the biggest mouths and the least practical input in money or time. Over time, that changed. So, that might be a way for you to learn what the family knows that you do not know. It would be important that you two come at it together, and from the same page. The question is what happened with D C to change their feelings toward him. You are looking to fill in the pieces, because the things that happened hurt and surprised you and the situation is so unusual for this close family that you know there has to be more to the story. That you need to know what it is, and that you have all come through worse things in the past, so tell us what you know or what you heard. It would be best not to come at it from the position of having been wronged or hurt. Unless the family is dysfunctional, something has happened with D C that you know nothing about. And in "popping up" through your entire conversation with grandma, D C made sure grandma would not tell you. You two can meet this challenge beautifully if you stay on the same page and hold the correct attitude. It will be a hard thing. You can do it. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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