Finally Some Help!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Mac&Cheese, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. Mac&Cheese

    Mac&Cheese New Member

    Hello to all, I have been reading posts here and realize the folks here may know more than anyone else I have talked to or read so far! Obviously I am new to this site but sure have appreciated the knowledge from the parents posting here! My husband & I have 2 bio sons and adopted 3 little ones 3 yrs ago. The youngest came into our home at age 2 1/2. He has been a challenge from day one, very strong willed and active. I am puzzled because he knows his boundaries at home and is for the most part a great kid at home, (he does have moments). Our problem is he is so defiant in other places. Was kicked out of daycare last spring, doing better in a smaller home envir. for summer. He is in K this year and is a terror! His teacher is calling me and sending home notes on his behavior. We have had to punish him for how he behaves at school almost daily. This same thing happened with the day care, husband & I were always punishing him for his behavior outside home. Been to councelor - playtherapy was a waste of time. Took him to psychiatrist last fri gave diagnosis of ODD/ADHD. I gave him one 10mg dose of Metadate...WOW became out of control 3 hr post dose - suicidal, angry, crying, unable to control. Go back this friday probably to try something else! I have placed in writing a request for IEP. Why is this kid good at home and a terror in other settings?
    I appreciate any input for this group of experts. I do know that Metadate is a Cerebral stimulant but don't know what his bad reaction to it indicates. Thanks for reading this, all help is greatly appreciated!!!
  2. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Hi and welcome! Love your screen name! ;)

    I'm just a mom, but I wonder if Metadate has the same potential for provoking raging in bipolar kids as Ritalin? (I'm sure some of the moms with better knowledge of medications will pop in with opinions on that.) We tried 2 doses of Ritalin on my son when he was 6, fortunately on a weekend, LOL. The first one provoked mega raging within 20 minutes. We thought it might be a fluke and tried 1 more time a week later - same response except this time knives and cut phone lines were involved. When I discussed it with his psychiatrist, she told me that was not an unheard of response in kids with bipolar, especially since the onset of raging was pretty promptly after the dose of Ritalin. Just a thought based on our own experience - could mean nothing in your kiddo though. Do you know history of bio family at all? That probably would help a whole lot if it is available.

    I have to say, the usual MO is for kids to have more problems at home than outside home, at least initially. I wonder if it's because you have an excellent grasp on how to manage his behaviors, while school staff.... not so much. I think it's very good you've request IEP evaluation because daily phone calls wear thin and are terribly unproductive in the long run. You're not at school and they really need to learn how to manage his behaviors. I would strongly recommend requesting a functional behavioral analysis (FBA) as part of IEP evaluation. The FBA tries to target behaviors and triggers, and then should be used to come up with a behavior management plan (BMP).

    One thing I would stop for now, and I know and totally understand that it probably runs against every parenting ideal you hold near and dear (it did for me), is punishing at home for school behaviors. Number one - it's a delayed consequence. Our kids, especially at age 6, need immediate reinforcers and consequences. If you punish at home 5 hours after the behavior, it kind of gets lost in translation. Also, school needs to deal with these behaviors, not call you about them so you can "fix" it. Number two - if his behaviors do start to cross over to home you may find yourself endlessly handing out consequences. It can get to be pretty ugly. School stuff needs to stay at school and they need to handle consequences - home stuff stays at home.

    Anyway - glad you found us!!!
  3. jal

    jal Member

    Hi and welcome Linda. You have found a great place here. The first stimulant my son trialed was Metadate and he went balistic on it. He destroyed a huge preschool classroom in a major fit of rage. He had issues before but I had never seen anything like it. My difficult child has always had problems at home and in daycare/school. My difficult child has also trialed 7 different stims: Metadate, Ritalin, Ritalin LA, Vyvanse, Adderrall...All made him much more agitated and aggressive. My 6 yr old finished a 3 week psychiatric hospital stay this summer where they also trialed Ritalin again to our dismay, but they saw within a 3 day trial just how it set him off. He currently is on an older class anitdepressant that used to be used for ADHD, before stims were developed. This is not to say that is what your child should be on, but just that some children cannot handle a stimulant at all. It took us almost 3 yrs to discover that this actually works for him.

    Our original dr told me that because difficult child could not handle Metadate that he was bipolar. After many different dr's, evaluations and medication trials difficult child's current diagnosis is ADHD (severe) and mood disorder not otherwise specified. They can't truly call it bipolar because of his age, but they cannot rule it out either.

    Is it possible that school and/or daycare provides an unusual amount of extra sensory stimulation that agitates your child? I know that mine has problems with extra stimulation which almost disorients him to the point he cannot control any of his actions/impulsivity.
  4. Mac&Cheese

    Mac&Cheese New Member

    WHOO, HOO, YOUR RESPONSES ARE AWESOME:D! I have wondered if he is bipolar or depressed. From your experience Jal, I don't intend to let them try another cerebral stimulant. We don't know any fam history, mother was very young, father unknown. Slsh, I have often been upset with the idea of punishing him at home after a school day...but they certainly expect us to!!!! Threaten to suspend him if we don't "fix it". So If I don't punish him a home, (reward NEVER Works) the school suspends him! Then what do I do??? I hope the IEP will help. I had never heard of a FBA OR BMP, THANK YOU. Knowledge is power~the more I have when I meet with the school, the better! Boy, is this a learning experience. I have a whole new respect for parents that have a child like our difficult child....seems that school adm & teachers expect kids to fit in their "round peg" no exceptions!!! Yes, Metadate and Ritalin are very similar. he does get agitated in group settings and with a larger group of kids. The FBA should help point that out! I love the term "Warrior" I sincerely feel like I am at war with the school!!! Thanks Again!
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Did he come from foster care? Many of those kids were born drug affected--that can make a big difference. I adopted a kid like that. Also, has he had a neuropsychologist evaluation?
    How is his early development? How is his speech and motor skills? Does he make good eye contact, play well and appropriately with toys, socialize well with peers? Does he freak out during transitions and if things are changed in his room or in the house? Does he crave order? Have an obsessions? It sounds like more than ADHD to me and I'd look into it further. NeuroPsychs do a lot of testisng and are way better than other professionals. What do you know about his birth relatives? Stims will not help every disorder. Have you thought of Aspergers/high functioning autism? It's another possibility, which is why I'd go to the neuropsychologist. Welcome :)
  6. house of cards

    house of cards New Member

    I would look into sensory issues, if you see your difficult child in any of the symptons, O.T. can be very helpful. Sensory issues can be a part of another diagnosis like mood disorder or autism but it can also stand alone.
  7. Mac&Cheese

    Mac&Cheese New Member

    His speech is excellent, very fluent and talks way above his age. He is very social with neighbors and friends. To his aunts & uncles he is soooo adorable and fun to spend time with. I have seen the defiance at home but again, he knows his limits! Its just at school or daycare where he is the worst. Kathy are you saying he could have sensitive hearing or something that causes exaggerated behavior? He was in foster care for most of his life, all but the first 6 months during which he suffered extreme neglect. Where do I find a Neuropsychologist? I can't find one listed in our area. Who else does neuropsychologist evaluations? Thanks Again! You are more help than you know with your ideas and suggestions!
  8. Lillyth

    Lillyth New Member

    I agree about not punishing him at home for school stuff. We made that mistake & it only made him worse.

    Also, my son deliberately got himself kicked out of a setting he hated, so that may be something that is going on too. Perhaps you could try asking him if that is what he wants, not like in a mean way, but in an info-gathering kind of way.

    Welcome to the board.
  9. Mac&Cheese

    Mac&Cheese New Member

    Lillyth, I think he does misbehave especially in environments he doesn't like but he has got to learn that he has to make compromises in life and getting kicked out of K is not a good option! What makes you suspect your son has dylexia? He is 8 now, can he read outloud to you? Thanks
  10. Pookybear66

    Pookybear66 New Member

    Mac&Cheese-Sounds like if he were my kid I would take him out of K and homeschool if that were an option. He definitely needs some kind of plan to be discussed with the staff as to their actions regarding his undesirable behavior. I also wonder if its not a sensory thing. However, it could be the noise level, the amount of people, the cluttering of posters on the wall, etc. Or even all of it. Ask him what makes him get "crazy" he might be able to provide some insights.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    WELCOME!!! I am so sorry the school is threatening you to get you to "fix" your son. Clearly SOMETHING in the school environment is not meeting HIS NEEDS.

    Knowledge IS power, and there is a LOT of both here on this board. I hope you can ask for an Occupational therapy assessment (school one may help, but private will address ALL the needs that may be there) so that if he has Sensory Issues they can be addressed. There is a therapy called brushing that is for Sensory Integration problems that can be very very helpful and is NOT a medication. medications DO have there time and place, my oldest has been on them for years, don't get me wrong. But non-medication interventions can also be powerful.

    If you go to the FAQ/Board Help part of the forum you will see a thread for a Parent Report. It is a great way to get all the info about your child in order so you can use it effectively to get help for him.

    Hugs, support, and so glad you found us!

  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to lend support.
    Sounds very frustrating. Poor kid. Are the lights too bright? Is there too much noise? Do you know exactly what it is he doesn't like? Maybe you can alter the situation a bit for him. I realize he has to learn--we all do--but there can be some accommodations.
    Let us know how it goes.
  13. Mac&Cheese

    Mac&Cheese New Member

    The info provided by all of you is for lack of better wording...AWESOME! I feel less alone and more empowered by your advice and support. I intend to look into many of the suggestions you have given me and I intend to hold the school more responsible! I especially wonder if he is in sensory overload or his anxiety level raises in the group settings.....Thanks Agagin
  14. house of cards

    house of cards New Member

    Sorry for the long time in replying, Yes, I was wondering if the lighting, the amount of people and activity, the sounds like the intercom and fire drills, the hard seats... anything that is just pushing him past his tolerance that he doesn't have to contend with at home. Does he search out quiet places? Does he react to loud noises? You mentioned that he did better in a small home like day care so I would think it is the enviorment, not that there isn't the possiblity of other problems as well, just that the different atmospere is what pushes him over the edge. If he does have any Sensory troubles an O.T. evaluation and treatment can help alot.