Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by GoneCamping, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. GoneCamping

    GoneCamping New Member

    This is my first post. I have been reading other people's posts and it feels like I'm reading my own story. My 6yo daughter had been diagnosed with ODD and mood disorder. This has been going on for some time. Her behavior only happens when she is with me. She is fine at school, friends houses and when she is with her dad. Her sister as told me it would be better if she wasn't around sometimes which breaks my heart. The little one is verbally and physically mean to her sister. We are in counseling and the therapist seems to be on this kick of offering her rewards which the moment she has a melt down the reward system goes out the window and she doesn't care. I took her to a psychiatrist and they prescribed Abilify. She said it would help with the mood swings. After a few days it seemed to be working. We had 2 really great evenings and it felt like I had my baby back, then they went with the ex. The exDH sees the girls once a month and 6 weeks out of the summer. When they are with him it's fun time. They are hold up in a hotel away from friends and stuff so they don't have the expectation of going to friends house when we get home in the evening. They go to all the theme parks and fun time. I'm the bad one who tells them they are grounded and can't play. He isn't in that situation and only sees the youngest as just having a bad day. I have a family history of mood disorders, a nephew who has Asbergers. I had severe mood swings in late teens early twenties but have gotten over those. Now the exDH doesn't want to give her her medications when he is with them. He said only if the therapist thinks it is a good idea then he is ok with it. Well she wasn't so he thinks he has the final say. He says he doesn't see the behavior and thinks she if fine. I have sent him video of her meltdowns and have asked him to talk to our 9yo. We have had some knock out drag out tantrums. It is so tiring every night. I drive home from work wondering what mood I will find her in when I pick her up. Then what mood will she be in when we get home and find out what is for dinner. The wind could change and **** her off and her mood changes just like that. She is physical with her sister and me. She grunts when she is in one of her moods. Won't talk, just grunt her answers. She just gets nasty and mean to me and her sister. There are time during the weekend I wish it was Monday so I could go to work. I hate feeling that way and I know she can't like feeling this way. Before she left to spend time with her dad Saturday I felt so hopeful that the medications were going to work along with the counseling every week. She was actually happy. Now I don't know what is going to happen. Can he get a court order to stop me from giving her medications?

    I'm sorry but he doesn't go through the temper tantrums, the screaming of "I hate you, You're stupid and I want to kill you" and doesn't see it hurt our 9yo. She can't be happy feeling this way, all this anger and from what the therapist says she is really angry at her 9yo sister. It hurts to see her so unhappy and angry. I just so want to help her feel better.

    What happens if the ex won't give her the medications while they are with him. How will that affect her in the long run. What recourse do I have. I am the custodial parent and the girls are with me 90% of the year. He lives in another state than we do.

    I finally feel like I'm not alone after reading other posts. It's not just my imagination that her behavior is like that. Sorry I feel I'm all over the place.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi. Glad you came here, but sorry you had to.

    I have a few questions that can help us help you.

    1/Can you tell us a bit about her history and your family situation? When did you divorce and when did you remarry? How does she like your husband? Was there a lot of chaos in her very early life? See or experience physical abuse?

    2/Did she have any delays?

    3/Any strange quirks? How does she relate to her same age peers?

    4/Has she ever been evaluated? How is she at school?
  3. GoneCamping

    GoneCamping New Member

    difficult child: She has always been a headstrong child. From the time of conception she had me on my toes. The Dex is in the military so he was gone off and on during her early years. Would be gone for weeks at a time and then when she 1 1/2 he was deployed to Iraq for 6 months so it was just me and the girls. Then a year after he came back from Iraq in 2008 we seperated and I moved across the US back home to be near family and bigger support system. We have been divorced for 3 years now. We are not married, we had a commitment ceremony and he moved in with us 2 years ago. She loves him to death. Sometimes she is his shadow. Both the girls adore him. There was a lot of seperation anxiety on her part from me after we moved back home. Not so much with preschool, just if I needed to leave the house for an errand and she was with someone. The only chaos I can think of was the move back home.

    The only delay she had was she did not speak until she was 3 and I had her in speech therapy from the age of 2. She would grunt and point her needs and desires. That was her way of communicating back then. I would say she is a little behind in 1st grade with her reading. She is very stuborn and when she doesn't want to do something everything just shuts down. So homework is hard to do sometimes. I have talked to her teacher about it already.

    Don't think she really has any strange quirks. Just don't know what mood she will be in from one minute to the next. We started calling her grumpy cause that how she was all the time. It soon became a term of endearment for me but we quickly put an end to it, realizing it wasn't going to help anything. She is just real moody. She seems to do ok with her peers. I think when she has tired of playing with someone she will get a little mean to them and leave. Like I'm done with you, by. But she is so sweet and polite when she is at other peoples houses. They call my girls cookie cutter girls. But it is just when she is at home. She doesn't show any behavior like this at school. Her teacher has mentioned that she notices her looking sad sometimes. She is all about play. If she could play 24/7 she would be happy. But when she has to do school work sometimes it's rough. She never has liked loud noises and it seems to bother her. I'm noticing that with me now.

    She was evaluated by a psychiatrist and she diagnossed her with ODD with mood disorder. I have a family history of mood disorders and a nephew who has Asbergers. My mom has social anxiety issues. I have that sometimes. When I brought her to the therapists office almost a year ago I suspected ODD. Every point of it was like I was reading her life. He therapist suggested a reward system. That worked for like a week and then she didn't care about rewards. She doesn't care about rewards when she has her melt downs. We stopped therapy for 4 months while her therapist was on maternity leave and started back up. We are back to the reward system. She just doesn't understand that it does not work with difficult child. Once we are full blown histerics it's game over. We will see how the reward system goes now that she is on the Abilify. I just feel she doesn't hear what I'm saying and she doesn't think difficult child has ODD or mood disorder. I'm not crazy, I know my daughter and how she is and what she can tolerate and what not. Why don't people listen to us. There is something wrong with my daughter and I'm not crazy.

    There has never been any physical abuse in our house. husband and I do not fight or argue. If we disagree we talk about it calmly. There is no reason to yell or anything. So she doesn't see any of that except when it is directed towards her. Her father and I did argue a bit when we were still together after we seperated. But I don't argue with him on the phone or anything so there isn't anything like that there.

    I think that is about it.
  4. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Your mommy gut will be right on this - and you'll find people on this board REALLY back mommy gut.

    Having said that - my experience with an ODD diagnosis? It's just a placeholder. It acknowledges that the behaviours are not normal, that this child does have a problem. But... an ODD diagnosis gives you nothing else. There are no interventions, accommodations or medications that are known to help kids with "ODD". BUT... there are a whole raft of potential reasons why a kid would act that way, and if you can find out what those are for your child, THOSE will give you guidance on interventions, accommodations and/or medications.

    Here's one clue I found in your post:
    There's at least a couple of possibilities...
    1) Sensory issues - has she ever had an Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation for sensory and motor skills challenges? If not, it would be worth doing. Anything the Occupational Therapist (OT) finds, there will be interventions and accommodations and therapy (Occupational Therapist (OT)) to help.
    2) Auditory issues - some kids don't like loud noises because they can't hear over the noise. Some can't handle noisy environments in general. It could be a hearing problem, or one of a number of auditory processing disorders. Hearing testing can happen at any age. They usually don't test for APDs until about age 7 or so, and not until ADHD has been ruled out or medicated (because the difficulty in managing focus makes it impossible to test for APDs). But you can start watching for it - does she do better in a quiet environment, or in a noisy one? does she do better after a quieter day? does a noisy day seem to trigger more melt-downs?
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I would have her evaluated. I agree that something is going on more than just being moody and I agree that ODD is sort of a useless title that gets a child exactly NO interventions or help and doesn't have any real meaning other than what we already know...the child is defiant. But it doesn't explain why the child is defiant. I am a great believer in neuropsychologist evaluations so I would recommend one (you can find neuropsychs at university hospitals). Her early speech delay and sensory issues certainly do mean something, but it is best to have her evaluated by a good professional (a plain therapist isn't proficient enough).

    Although there was no real abuse in your home, thankfully, she DID have a few intense changes in her young life. Her daddy left her a few times then left for good. Is he in her life at all? Then you remarried somebody new and even if they like him it's a giant change for them. So she has also had a lot of stuff happening in her six years.

    Personally I don't think it will get has to be addressed. Early intervention is the key to a good outcome for our differently wired children. Again, I recommend a neuropsychologist. I am thinking that perhaps she is somewhere on the spectrum...maybe a little unattached too due to her father's leaving. Without a doubt she has some sensory issues, but sensory issues very rarely stand alone...there is usually a bigger diagnosis causing the sensory issues. Example: My Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) son to this day can not handle loud noise. When he was little, he would cover his ears. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and sensory integration disorder are common co-diagnosis.

    Evaluate her. Better to be safe than sorry if my motto :)
  6. GoneCamping

    GoneCamping New Member

    Yes their dad sees them once a month and 6 weeks during the summer so he is involved. We are at odds with her treatment. After reading your last post I have found 2 doctors in our area that provide that type of testing and will call them tomorrow to make an appointment. Thank you for your input. It helps to see other peoples thoughts. I really appreciate it.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We are very happy to help. Post often :)
  8. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    With the Dex, mine went through a "there is nothing wrong with him and I'm not giving him these medications" as well. We took him to court and got a court order that he will give him medications that the dr prescribes. Now X says he gives difficult child 1 the medications but sometimes will and sometimes doesn't. Yes, it hurts difficult child 1 in the long run, but there isn't much else I can do about it. I do try to get difficult child 1 to be responsible for remembering his medications. As yours is so young though that might not work. I have also been diligent about countering X's thinking that there is nothing wrong with difficult child 1. difficult child 1 and I go over why he needs the medications and what behavior (right after he has done the behavior) the medications are supposed to be helping. After years of working with him difficult child 1, mostly, doesn't believe x.

    At 6 years old we didn't know what was wrong with difficult child 1 either. But with a lot of testing and book reading and therapists and psychiatrists and ect.... he is doing better now than when he was 6.

    Good luck and welcome.
  9. GoneCamping

    GoneCamping New Member

    Haven't decided if I'm putting difficult child back on Abilify yet. I finally found someone in our area that will do neuropsychological evaluations. Watiting to get our first appointment. Had a lengthy talk with Dex and he still doesn't think there is a problem. He see's some behavior but not the knock out drag out fights and tantrums and the name calling and the way she gets physical with her sister.

    I think I will wait till we do the neuro evaluation. She has been back 2 days and so far she has been good. Loving and not defiant. We started the token system. She started the week with 4 tokens and each night she will get another token if she hasn't had any tantrums or has been cooperating. Once she gets to 12 she will get a treat, her choice. So we will see how this works in the mean time.

    Will be seeing a new therapist tomorrow for both girls. Old therapist only has one evenings available and they fill up before we can get our appts. So this new one has more nights available for us. If the other could guarantee a night for us we will stick with her. Dex seems to have this thing for her therapist, somet type of loyalty thinkg going on. Again he lives in another state, close and doesn't interact with therapist but on the phone mostly. Doesn't like that I want to take her somewhere else. Told him it's not what is best for difficult child to only go once a month if lucky. We will see how this goes.

    Last few nights have been great. No fighting. Gives me hope.
  10. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Hope this new therapist is a good one. How long until the evaluation?
  11. GoneCamping

    GoneCamping New Member

    We have our initial appointment with the neuropsychologist doct on the 24th and then she will make an appointment for the actual evaluation. We see the new therapist tonight. Last night was a good night. We had her Daisy GS meeting and then the night was mostly over by then. So no problems. I take one day at a time. So we are doing good.
  12. GoneCamping

    GoneCamping New Member

    Well the second therapist said she doesn't feel difficult child had ODD with-mood swings. She said she feels she is at the lowest point, having disruptive behavior. Had both girls in the initial consultation and what annoyed me even more the Dex wanted to be on the phone during it. After I said what I had to say he basically said he doesn't see her behaviors. I asked her if we have to have him on the phone everytime the girls are there. She said no it was up to me and the girls. Why would he want to be there listening? I feel if they know he is there, they might not want to talk and be honest. He just annoys me.
  13. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    difficult child 1 wouldn't talk to his therapist with anyone else in the room. I won't talk with x anywhere within the building. How we handle this is that x calls the therapist and gives his input (poor therapist). I call or e-mail what I see to him and difficult child 1 is supposed to be talking to him. Once in a blue moon I do sit in on a session. Mostly when difficult child 1 is trying to leave or there is a pressing issue that therapist can't get him to open up on. (I know which buttons to push to get difficult child 1 to talk.)