Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by wincha, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. wincha

    wincha New Member

    We went over my daughters evaluation. No surprise no obvious learning disabilities and she scores high on the tests. She doesn't meet their criteria for her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) since she is still learning. We can meet with another person to set up a 504. We are the only city in the US that has special school as a seperate entity. Of course like before the teacher ect... gives us smoking mirrors like we will all work together. The counselor and psychologist stress how my daughter is "at risk" for depression ect... 3 areas and has poor self esteem, low confidence, perfectionist so with her anxiety will either not turn in work or not do it if she is nervous about it. The way the teacher handles things makes my daughter freeze also. Then at the end the teacher AGAIN states she sees this as a behavorial problem.

    So on Friday after the meeting we get my daughters work returned that was turned in late. The reports were downgraded by one letter grade for being late. The next thing is yesterday my daughter got in trouble during recess(the situation is that the consequence was appropriate so we are not having a problem with this) however we found out due to her late work she has not only been down graded but required to stay in for both recesses for over 2 weeks. The teacher has funny money and my daughter was in the hole since the teacher gives for good things and takes away for not doing your work. Well now if you are minus money you must either do tasks to earn money which my daughter has been doing AND stay in for recess and read ect.. UNTIL you don't owe the teacher any funny money. So my daughter and her friend were goofing off in the class while the teacher is eating outside of the class and checking in some. Basically the kids are unsupervised however I will let that go for now.

    So my husband talks to the teacher this morning. She keeps referring all of this to my daughters behavior.
    I talked to all involved before school about her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) causing her to shut down on some school work especially written assignments that make her put her thoughts or opinions down. Then she froze twice and the teacher considered her reaction defiant and my daughter ended up in the principals office twice in a week. So I met with the principal, teacher and counselor. They listened and basically blew me off. So after the teacher kept calling me about what I think she should do we requested the evaluation. Then she tried to work with my daughter. But how she did this was not making her write her reading response journal which my daughter was unable to do. She told me that she didn't want to cause a power struggle. The entire term I was unaware she wasn't doing this even after the progress report and phone calls almost weekly. So in this area of reading she gave her 0's and lowered her A to a C.

    The counselor and principal do agree my daughter's inability or slowness to perform has to do with her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD). However they ackknowledge the teacher is not on board and considers this behaviorial. Now that my daughter got in "trouble" they will have the FIT team meet but this is a behavioral team.
    I requested to meet for the 504, I need something in writing. My daughter now doesn't like to read(which she loved before) doesn't like school, thinks she is a bad kid.

    I need some ideas and support. 3rd kid who needs something extra from school and they still jerk us around. I have had to fight for each one of my children.

    Should we request an IEE for a 504? I want to get the 504 done now if and if need be push for the IEP later.

  2. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I'd push for the IEP now. I wouldn't waste time doing the 504 first, they are just stalling you.
  3. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    There is no IE provision for a 504. Request a full IE for an IEP--if they don't qualify her then the same evaluation can be used for a 504 plan--which is not USUALLY worth the trouble in my opinion.

    Some people have had good results with 504s but since there is no enforcement, it means that the school's compliance is VOLUNTARY. Reading your post about this being your 3rd child with special needs suggests to me that the SD is unlikely to be very compliant to a 504.

    I would take offense personally that Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) is being treated as a behavioral problem. We have had our differences over Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) as an emotional disorder--but ED a WHOLE lot better than BD. I have been there done that several times with an ED kid who NEVER evidenced the "typical" types of behavior problems, e.g., he was never sent to the office in 9 years of public school for any behavior problems--while he was suicidally depressed. Depression is not a behavior problem--at least not in an 8 year old. I won't go on.....However, Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) is a lot closer to ED than BD if you cannot get OHI.

    I sent a child to KDG who loved school--by 2nd grade he was close to school refusal. The school did that--specifically his teachers in first and second grades. Teachers can really ruin school for bright kids and then blame the kid because based on testing, he/she COULD do the work. Well duh--without the teacher's put-downs, demeaning and punishing, maybe, but certainly not with it.

    Send your IE request by CERTIFIED mail and be prepared for a BIG fight. This teacher does not want to help.

  4. wincha

    wincha New Member

    We don't have BD or ED its all lumped into ED. We were told she doesn't meet criteria for either so how do we fight this. I don't care anymore as long as we can work to keep my daughter from being punished. Do we request the IEE to prove she needs the IEP and go for the 504 while we get the IEE?
    How can we prove she needs the IEP. We are told she is still learning and grades have nothing to do with it. However AFTER the meeting we find out that she has been kept in from recess for 2 weeks. Now remember its my childs word against the teachers she can always LIE!

    If the counselor and principal are on board, why can't they get the teacher on board. The principal is a straight up guy also and helped us with our last child to get what he needed for his IEP.
  5. wincha

    wincha New Member

    Clarification she had a full evaluation for an IEP and they did not qualify her. Are you saying to request an IEE for us to try to get the IEP?
  6. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Wincha, it sounds like you could use some help with this locally to push for that IEP. Have you looked into an educational advocate who knows the law and the system to work with you? It would be a whole lot less costly to invest up front than to deal with the consequences later of not getting appropriate measures into place now. My son has had an IEP since day 1 and while it's not always been a cakewalk (especially during his serious anxiety phase) having a mountain of reports from various outside specialists and their own staff recommendations has certainly helped "legitimize" what issues my son has. Now when I have to deal with issues like the recess detentions (which I detest) if the teacher won't work with me then I have a channel in which to work through. In fact it did happen that my son's teacher gave him a recess detention at the beginning of the year. He's never not turned in work--what had happened was he was so overwhelmed by a huge leap in expectations in terms of managing his materials and homework. I didn't think it was right that he be punished for that and if the teacher wouldn't have agreed we would have been in a full IEP meeting within the ten days.

    Good luck wiht this.
  7. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    I suppose she had her psychological and medical degree with her for you to review?!?!

    I'd also ask for the IEE in writing and send it via Certified Mail.

    I'd get a letter from difficult child's doctor reflecting the Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) diagnosis and submit it to the Special Education Department.

    Additionally, you may also want to consider getting difficult child out of this classroom and into another. Ask for transfer to another teacher.

    My difficult child has a lot of problems, but the most difficult to deal with is his school anxiety. I can't say that my son has ever had an educator with bad teaching skills, but he has had some that are ignorant of neurological disorders and how they present in children. It's a disaster.
  8. pepper

    pepper New Member


    I feel your frustration. I don't know how the State school board is set up in Missouri but there should be available a mediator to come in and mediate between you and the teacher, principal, and MDT. Start documenting each and every instance with the teacher and your daughter that is resulting in negative learning experiences. The school's tend not to respond until they have enough 'anecdotal evidence' that there should be a change. It sounds like the teacher has a personal conflict with your daughter. The teacher's consequences for the class should be the same and keeping her in from recess for two weeks does nothing to help create better study habits, or to teach responsibility. Something I did when my son did not want to complete in class work was to create a behavior chart that he could mark himself. Each subject or work period had 3 smiley faces. If he worked 5 mins. he got to color the face in himself, if he worked 10 mins. he got to color in the second one if he completed his assignment he colored in all three. the number of smiley faces was totaled up at the end of the day. 1-4 earned a little toy, 4-8 earned 10 mins free reading time 8-12 earned 10 mins on the computer. This way the focus isn't on negative reinforcement it is on positive and it involved him and made him a part of his success. And if he didn't do any work, he didn't get anything taken away from him he just didn't earn anything and he had to bring home seat work to complete. I learned that when you are fighting the school system the more evidence that you have that you are the one coming up with suggestions and anecdotes and can show them that you know the law and what is legally mandated for your kid, the school's become much more compliant and easier to work with. Good Luck!!

  9. wincha

    wincha New Member

    Husband is an attorney and has done Special Education law.
    They have her official diagnosis of Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) from her doctor and have since the beginning of school.
    Mediators have to do prior to due process.
    I am considering sending a letter, hubby writes them well,
    1. we did not get our 10 business days notice by mail to prepare for the meeting.
    phone call friday before, official letter the tuesday before, requested a copy of the results to go over so we would be prepared and were denied as the psychologist doesn't write the report until after the meeting.
    2. we did not have the op to talk about all of the instances that my daughter was pulled out of class, calls to me ect... i have a wonderful memory and am writing all details down
    3. we were totally UNAWARE of her being kept in for recess for the last 2 weeks this was found out AFTER the meeting.
    4. i was talking to the teacher weekly and was not told she did not do her reading response journal, not allowed to bring it home, got a zero that brought down her reading grade from an A to C, plus it was not mentioned in her progress report.

    All of these details will be noted...should we put them in the letter to meet with the team or just request to meet again, we are going to request an IEE. Does the IEE do academic testing again? as she scored very high in all areas(no big surprise for me) she can write at home where she feels 'safe". She is supposed to be at risk for 3 indicators for depression. I am not waiting until she gets there.
  10. wincha

    wincha New Member

    Now I got a call after my husband went in and talked to the principal. We have a meeting to see if she qualifies for a 504 and a meeting for the FIT team to focus on her behaviors! UGH! I told my husband now they are treating her as a behavior problem. So we are going to request for an IEE at their expense in writing. Can we do this if we disagree about her eligibility?

    What are the next steps if you don't agree with the decision of that she doesn't qualify for an IEP.

    Right now I think our tactic is that we were not fully prepared to be full participants of the meeting because notice wasn't given 10 days prior and we were refused any evaluation info prior to the meeting. Plus we found out some info about my daughter was kept in for recess for 2 weeks, having multiple consequences for not completing work. The teacher is insistent on treating her as a behavior problem. Where in the law can we go to for guidance?
  11. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    You can contest the school evaluation that they used to find her NOT qualified.

    Ask for an IE--qualification is one of the most often disputed Due Process issues with SDs. Anew evaluation is always the first step. Make sure the IE is really independent.

    YOU DISAGREE--that's all that matters. They either have to pay for your IE or go to Due Process to show cause why their evaluation is totally complete and correct (evaluations. are almost never complete or correct legally, so SDs would rather pay for an IE than have a H.O. go over their evaluation.) This is particularly true if they
    1) failed to consider outside evaluations you already have
    2) Did a sloppy "screening" evalaution that is not legally compliant.

    DO NOT accept a 504--with your husband involved, they will now SAY anything but DO nothing with a 504 in my opinion.

    Send everything certified mail and stay off the phone.

  12. wincha

    wincha New Member

    The IEE we are going to ask for. Just ask for an IEE? Then should we do a cognitive again? It appears to be right on mark. She needs some type of psychological evaluation to show how her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) is affecting her at school. They gave her 3 at risk categories one was depression. Also mentioned low self esteem, low confidence, perfectionism, anxiety. Who would the right person to pick for the IEE?
  13. wincha

    wincha New Member

    I finally got husband to write the letter. Its amazing that husband can help other people with their IEP's and puts his head in the sand about difficult child's need for an IEP. I have been bugging him this entire break to write the letter. His last statement is that we will then be adversial with the school and teacher and with an IEP we can't complain if she doesn't get good grades since an IEP will only give her accomodations. Where is his brain? I had to explain about a child's friend who has an IEP for adhd and is also in the gifted program. But he did write the letter. The school wants to have a FIT meeting now which is their behavioral team. After I heard this I demanded he write the letter. We are not on the same page. This is causing friction again with our marriage. I have fears that I will end up seeing bipolar symptons from her and can't go through this again. I have spoke to her therapist and she doesn't see this its just that I dread it. husband is always in some type of denial he is so passive aggressive. Every time we have followed his advice(do nothing) it backfires. We need to be proactive. What type of IEE would I now need to prove that she needs an IEP? I know she does't have any Learning Disability (LD)'s since nothing came up on testing and her most recent standardized testing was very high. We will end up having an IEP for ED if we get it but since the school is now turning her into a behavior problem thats not any better. How do you show a child with Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) needs an IEP who still makes good grades and is "learning" according to the school? She is unable or is limited in writing in her reading response journal due to her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), is as risk for depression, self esteem and something else, "looks" defiant when she can't do something due to her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and says "NO", has been kept in the last 2 weeks from recess because she didn't do her reading response journal and other written work, then had her "funny money" taken away, grades dropped, and can't go to recess until she pays back the "funny money". We found out this later. The teacher had called me prior to our request for an IEP to ask what to do for my daughter and left the meeting stating its behavorial even after the other experts says its her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) but its not enough for an IEP. What enough? I'm not willing to go there for whats enough for the school.
  14. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    An IEE is governed by the same requirements as the school district's evaluation. It should be more than just cognitive testing -- it's a multidisciplinary evaluation done in the private sector which results in a written report. The report should include a "Recommendations" section that is very specific to a student's needs in school.

    You might find the threads in the archives regarding adverse education impact helpful.