need of understanding!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Hoping4answers, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Hoping4answers

    Hoping4answers New Member

    Hi everyone!

    I have been on a search for the last couple weeks trying to find ANY info or just another person in my boat...

    I have an 11 yr old daughter who started telling her grandma (for now) that I abuse fact she has taken the stories straight from the book...A Child Called It by David Pelzer which her teachers said was fine for her. Most recently she told my mom that I dragged her up the stairs just for not going to bed when I said and subsequently told her that if I miscarried it would be all her fault. Mind you I am 5'3" and 90 lbs...she is 5'0" and 70 lbs. When in fact what happened was that I did what was recommended by a therapist...tell her you'll help her if she needs it if she can't be a big girl and put my arm around her and GUIDE her. She then put most of her weight on me and I had to get her up the stairs...she stayed shoulder to shoulder the entire time with her feet ON THE FLOOR! When she first mentioned this to my mom she would not give her details. When I explained the situation...that she had been beating up her sister and behaving very badly all day so I sent her to mom dropped it and brought it up to her again a few days later in which she again was unable to tell her what she meant. A few days ago with my husband we went over the situation with her and she admitted that it had in fact happened as I remembered. We then demonstrated how being DRAGGED is completely husband laid on the floor and I grabbed his hand and we specifically pointed out that his feet would never touch the floor in this case...this was a mistake!! We also asked "is this what happened to you and she said NO! On Thursday when my mom again tried to talk to her she gave her what we showed her verbatim! My next child is 5 years younger than her and difficult child has been beating her since she could move on her own. I foolishly believed it had stopped...6yr daughter was tested numerous times for Leukemia as a result of bruises that wouldn't go away or new ones that were unexplained. We found out a long while back that really she had just managed to keep 6 yr daughter quiet with threats. I have since caught her in act many times and put a video monitor in the room to keep watch. I recently caught her going after my 2 yr DS but until last night truly believed she was leaving my 4 yr DS alone...having wondered many times why...when we asked him and he said she slaps and punches him in the legs or kidney area. Last week my 4 yr DS had a bruise on his back and she was quick to jump in with an excuse about him having fallen on something and followed it up with a look to him and saying..."right, Ephraim?" When we asked why they don't tell every time they said it's because she tells them not to because she'll get in trouble and then we will they were bad...I am truly scared for them when she's around. On Thursday she went to stay at my mom's because no matter how hawk like I am she still finds a way to beat her siblings and this was the only way we could come up with to keep EVERYONE safe. Now that we're really confronting the issues there has been a long history of difficult children angry outbursts, lying, sneaking, stealing (just insignificant things), beatings and so on. Obviously atleast 6 yrs. From the time she was really young she'd get upset if you were smiling and she didn't want you to or if you were smiling at something she said or did she'd respond with a paranoid why are you looking at me? Last year she had tons of problems at school...lack of respect for the teacher, not turning in homework. She has never kept a friend longer than a couple months...until they realize that she's instigating fights between the others in the group and triangulating. When asked about any of this she will respond with you love Kendyll more or person A just doesn't like me anymore. She shows NO emotion and when she does it's purely superficial and has to revolve wround how someone did something to her. As far as she's concerned her hitting her sister is justified because she's annoying. Recently she's started to tell my mom (who is clearly who she believes is her confidant) that if any bruises were to surface on 4 yr DS that is was 6 yr daughter...that my husband and I are lying about her and it's really her sister. It all seems so premeditated and I am so afraid that this will lead us the DCFS which they'll find nothing (we don't even spank) but it only takes one person to believe her outrageous lies.

    She is a beautiful, smart, and capable girl. She can be so compassionate with the special needs kids at school...but also competitive for their attention. Around adults she's well mannered, polite, and very charismatic. Atleast until they question her about anything...then its war. I don't understand why a kid who is such a smart good at her core kid is behaving this way. Thursday was the hardest day of my parenting career...we love her sooo much and just want to be a whole family again. I feel guilty for what I've allowed her to do to my other kiddies out of pure ignorance and guilty for what she's going through. I know we have to keep doing family activities even if she's not involved because the others deserve that but it feels foreign. And yet my other children seem so much more at ease. My 2 yr DS is usually very clingy but in the short time difficult children been gone he's playing more and the other 2 are laughing more. My difficult child always seethes with anger it seems and with that lifted the others can breathe. I am so confused...I want to help everyone and I hate that to help the other 3 she can't be here. She starts therapy with the pyschologist today and the person watching her during the day when my mom works has a degree in psychiatric and used to run a school for emotional needs kids at one of our local hospitals so she's also been trying to talk to her. I just can't figure out how we've missed this for so long and what to do for her. Her biological fathers family has a long history of clinical depression...he himself has never been diagnosed but attempted suicide and self medicates with alcohol and drugs. His grandmother has attempted suicide over 20 times and is admitted yearly for a psychiatric evaluation. He has had no contact in 9 years so maybe that has changed...but either way what I'm seeing in my difficult child is like deja vu. She seems to be believing her lies and that scares me very much. I am so afraid that repeating over and over that I did not abuse my daughter makes me look guilty. I know that even if DCFS investigated they would find nothing but I want her to get the help before it goes that far.

    Thanx for listening to my long winded attempt at explaining. There's much much more. I just want to do what's best for her and everyone involved. We just want her happy and home...while still knowing that the others are safe.

  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi Hoping,
    You'll want to remove the kids' names to protect their privacy ... and add her diagnosis and medications, too, so we won't have to keep asking you for more info. :)

    My first thought is not what your daughter told your mom. It is the safety of your other kids.
    I would do something asap. Keep her separated. Never, ever, leave her alone, even if your bladder is ready to burst.
    I wish I had more advice but ... sigh. What is her diagnosis?
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    If her birthfather and grandmother have tried to commit suicide, I'd be looking into early onset bipolar. Rather than a psychologist has she ever seen a Psychiatrist (with the MD?) I would start there. They have more schooling and can diagnose. She has a lot of genetic baggage that could have been passed along and could explain her behavior. You want to catch whatever is wrong so SHE doesn't end up self-medicating, which is also a big red flag for a mood disorder, such as bipolar.
  4. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    Neurological disorders tend to be genetic. With suicide attempts and self-medicating on the paternal side, it's a place to start looking for answers.

    A pure guess of course, but suicide attempts leads me to wonder about depression. Depression can look very different in children compared to adults. But your difficult child seems to have a lot of aggression and fabricates outrageous stories. This makes me want to think it's more bipolar disorder. See if any of the bipolar symptoms at ring a bell for you.

    Like I said, it's just a wild guess on my part. There are so many "potentials" and coexisting conditions that a thorough evaluation would be required to sort things out.

    Welcome aboard.
  5. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hi Hoping! Welcome to a really great group. Don't feel guilty about what's been going on. We tend to expect kids to "outgrow" whatever is going on because kids "always adjust". Our kids don't.

    I agree that she should no longer be alone with any of the kids. She's dangerous.

    This is going to sound harsh, and it's not meant to be. The next she goes into a full-time rage, she needs to be hospitalized. She's a danger to herself and others. Personal opinion.

    If she hasn't got a diagnosis, you'll need one soon so that you're better prepared to deal with her issues. I would suggest a neuropsychologist, which you can usually find in a teaching or childrens hospital. This is basically hours of testing done over a few days (outpatient) where they can really take a full look at what's going on with her.

    MOST IMPORTANT: you've GOT to take care of yourself. If you don't, you're not going to be any good to any of the kids, including difficult child. I'm so sorry that you're going through all of this and are this far along in your pregnancy (Congratulations by the way!! :D) . I know you're in the "I'm exhausted 24/7 stage and this whole thing just takes the cake!

    Trust in the fact that you're among friends here. We're all going through a lot of these things, so you'll gain a lot of experience from the gang.

    I'd also like to recommend "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It's an easy read (not a bunch of techno-speak) and there are even parts that made me laugh because at times, it seemed that he was writing the book from my living room!

    Let us know how you're doing!

  6. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member


    I think you should keep her at Gma's house for as long as she will allow it or until you can get some help at your house. I agree she needs a thorough evaluation from a qualified psychiatrist.

    Not only is it good for the little ones to have her removed from your home at this time, but it is also good for her. She will have to live with the fact that she has abused her siblings. She may not feel it until she is 25, but to live with that fact is going to be difficult for her. Hopefully, by removing her you are preventing anything more serious from happening that she would have to live with for the rest of her life.
  7. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Welcome to the board!

    Whew, you sound exhausted. Grab a cup of coffee, pull up a chair, and join us. Nvts is right, you absolutely need to take care of yourself (especially in your delicate condition!) or you will not be able to care for your little ones.

    I am so very glad that your mom is pitching in and that she is on the same sheet of music as you are. So many moms on the board here do not have the support of their families.

    You found a great group. We all look forward to getting to know you.
  8. Hoping4answers

    Hoping4answers New Member

    So we saw the psychologist yesterday for the first went pretty well. She talked to me for most of the session getting background info and history and just pretty much touched base with difficult child. Psy D has already said anger management for sure and pointed out that her perception of reality is very out of whack but that she would know more next week seeing as there's a good liklihood that difficult child said whatever she thought she was supposed to say. She did however deny any abuse was going on...very small victory as I know that if it had been gma who took her a much different story would have been told. She was willing to talk to her school couselor to help get things situated and protect us from any false accusations so that's a bonus. I have spoken to other parents from our school and I am ecstatic to find out that they are exceptionally good at dealing with a situation like this! difficult child seemed less emotionless yesterday but I don't know if that's real or show. Psy also agreed that gmas house was the best place for her right now.

    I checked out the link Sheila attached and all 12 points describe my difficult child almost perfectly. There is no contact with biodad but I don't have a complete history for their family so I think I'm going to have to contact his family to get it...I'm afraid however that it may make the situation worse. As he is untreated other than self medicated. I'm afraid that as chaotic as her mind feels right now that additional chaos will make it worse but she seems to deliberately seek chaos so maybe it'll just feel normal??
  9. Hoping4answers

    Hoping4answers New Member

    Well were 2 sessions in to therapy so basically were still in the gathering stage. difficult child is still at gma's house but gma is a pushover who will buy her whatever she wants and allow her free reign for the most part. Her therapist suggested continuing her in dance but I'm worried that allowing this may hinder any progress. She doesn't love it by a long fact it has been our longstanding belief that she only continues so that her sister can't have the spotlight or have it for herself. I personally think that it only makes her angry and frustrated because she can't compete with her sister. difficult child has other talents but won't explore them because she can't see past her resentment towrads her sister.

    I made the mistake of confiding in a friend who believes she should be home instead with me on her 24/7. Never allowing her to be with the other kids (which is obvious) never allowing her to be anywhere but right by my side...including the bathroom. I agree that her being alone with anyone is a mistake but if I'm dedicating all my time to keeping her right next to me how will my other children get what they need?? Her sister wouldn't even move back into their room until all her stuff was gone and begs not to see her. The dynamic changes completely whenever difficult child's around...her anger ***** the happiness out of every situation. In turn her siblings become very agitated.

    I've been trying to continue taking the other kids to do fun things and maintain the family dynamic but of course I feel incredibly guilty for doing "family" things without the WHOLE family. difficult child is showing NO remorse of any kind and has started triangulating with her gma and the DOG! Is the need to be the center of attention so deep that any relationship is not ok?? The only thing she seems to feel is anger and the only time she has any feeling about the situation is when she heard we took the others bowling to which she complained it wasn't fair. Gma quickly reititerated that she had created the which she responded to by giving the silent treatment. When gma asks what her problem with siblings is she replies with "they need discipline and mommy and daddy don't discipline"...and she's right...if beating the kids black and blue is what she considers discipline then we DO NOT discipline!! Which is ironic as she's claiming we don't "discipline" at the same time that she's saying we abuse her.

    I am already unsure of the way I've handled difficult child and my friend just struck a nerve there and set me back 2 weeks in the dealing process. I was starting to accept that we had to continue our lives while helping her...getting the family pics with pregnant belly even if she wasn't in them, taking our long weekend, going to the zoo, ect...

    Thanks for listening!!!