He's back

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Signorina, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Guess who showed up? Apparently he was awoken by a text from his landlord stating he needed to come up with January and February's rent on Monday or he would be evicted. . . PC17 came downstairs and said "B wants me to let him into the garage, he's coming home"

    So he is sitting at our kitchen table with a smirk on his face telling us he is home and "this is how it will be" if he will be staying home ... LIKE HE IS DOING US A FAVOR!!!! And he ran the same line directed at me taking away his privacy, snooping, ruining his life, withholding his money from him, blah blah blah BECAUSE THIS IS ALL MY FAULT. Apparently, if I just send money, pay his bills, agree with his belief that pot smoking is harmless, and let him run the household while he is home - he will excel in school and in life. Furthermore, if we do it his way while he is home this semester, he will work over the summer, get a motorcycle, and go back to his former school in the fall of 2012 on OUR DIME while we look the other way and let him live his life. Basically, his threat is that if we don't agree to these conditions, he isn't moving back in.



    I sat and ate my soup and then I let him have it without losing it. (yay me) And I told him that if he is staying here he will go to school, maintain a because average, see a neurologist, BE CLEAN, get therapy and stay in most nights...and that WE WILL NEVER SUPPORT HIM -including pay 1 cent of his tuition so long as he is using any illegal substance and that my position has been consistent on that since he went to his first DARE class in 6th grade and that I would not be changing my position EVER. And that even if he had the opportunity to go back to his college in the fall on probation, that he would need to maintain a 3.25 GPA that semester just to bring his resident GPA (currently a 1.65) up to a 2.0 so that he could remain there. WHICH I FIND HIGHLY UNLIKELY. And that even so, he would have to maintain a 3.75 or above to get his GPA to a 3.0 by graduation. And a 3.0 isn't high enough to get into a decent grad school or land a 80K a year Chemist job. And I said it in a controlled manner. And I managed to get in a comment about him showing some humility for a change.

    Honestly, I DON'T WANT HIM HERE. HE IS LIVING IN FANTASY LAND. You should've seen the look on his face when I told him I used the balance of the unspent CD funds to pay back his college account for the spring semester. When I told him that I was not going to go to bed at 10pm every night knowing that I would be awoken by the security alarm a going off when he came home, he told ME I SHOULDN'T USE THE ALARM. HE WANTS MY LIFE to change to accommodate his life.

    H is trying to get through to him now. I may run away.
  2. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Oh so life threw him for a loop! Interesting. Guess business isnt doing so well. You have really done your homework well on what he has to do to get back on the right track and yeah that does seem like very hard work but if he wants it, he can do it because I have faith he is smart enough. It just means making choices. I hope he is smart enough to make the right choices.
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Go Sig!!! Awesome job of laying down the line and not getting all upset/emotional on him!!! I know that is so hard to do!

    Do you plan on telling him he cannot stay there tonight? he left, after all, taking EVERYTHING supposedly, while telling you and H that you are idjits. If he is SOOOOOO SMART then why is he back at your house asking to come in?

    Who does he think he is? I am rather angry that he actually thought he could waltz in, set the rules and have you jump to his tune. in my opinion that is just wayyyyyyyyy past arrogant and I probably would have told one of my kids that he was delusional if he thought he could get away with it.

    Can you tell him you hope he can figure out how to pay his rent since he moved out of your house, has no lease, pays no rent, and is not staying there tonight unless he makes major changes - and then follow through?

    IF you let him stay, can you get the police to bring a drug dog over to go through his stuff and his car and person BEFORE it comes into the house? I would probably refuse to let him bring all his stuff in and tell him he can probably find a storage locker to put it in while he finds a place to stay since clearly he won't follow your rules.

    Just don't say anything you don't mean or cannot carry through. You now know he will cry, beg for help, be oh so sincere and upset and in crisis just to get you to do what he wants. So his EVERY emotion has to be suspect from now on. Make him talk with his actions, not his tears or words or sob stories about being traumatzed. I am sure he was traumatized, but he is USING it and you to get what he wants and that is garbage.
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hang tough....you are doing amazing. So glad husband is taking over. I hope it ends calmly.

  5. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well, that didn't take long. It usually doesn't. Life has a way of biting difficult child's in the butt.

    Yes, I know that smirk well. It just makes you want to backhand him across the face, doesn't it? Not that you should . . .

    I disagree with letting him come back at all. in my humble opinion, he needs treatment and you have an opportunity here. I would tell him that you and husband will only support him if he is rehab or a halfway house that has a treatment program. Since he has no where else to go, he might actually agree to it. He could always take some college classes while he is living there.

    I know he will tell you that he doesn't need it but sometimes getting into a program can open their eyes. It worked from my difficult child. She went in saying she didn't have a problem and came out saying that she was an addict.

    I hate to be pessimistic but I don't think he is at the point that he will follow any of your rules if you let him live there. He will only make all of your lives miserable. been there done that


    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  6. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I think it's too late to not let him in. unfortunately. With my easy child's in the house, it was more important to me to protect them than to go head to head with difficult child. Maybe a tactical mistake, but they come first for now.

    H is still talking to him. H is usually pretty good at these things so I am hopeful. I think my calm lay down the law style was surprising (to me especially) but also crystal clear.

    When difficult child was coming in the house - I held my husband and said "I DON'T WANT these ups and downs, I can't deal with them, I married YOU because I wanted a calmer life... He's back but for how long? When does he storm out again?"

    (I think I mentioned I grew up in a loud, emotional household - no mental illness, no addiction, no excuse except OBNOXIOUS people)

    More than once difficult child got snippy with me and H said "young man, you will not talk to your mother that way" which was really affirming to me - we will need to remember to turn to each other and not on each other in the days, weeks, years ahead. This has all ready strained my marriage too much.

    I suspect I will be hanging about on the boards more often than not in the days ahead...I wish someone would give me a task to do here. Dust? Make dinner? Something?
  7. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Kathy - I posted before I saw your response. I agree 100% with your assessment.And it's going to be a bumpy ride. That's why I had to add the statement about him getting treatment. There's NO WAY I could get him to go to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) tonight. I wouldn't even know where to find one. And his friends are still home from school which would make balking so much easier. When I spoke to his counselor in the fall - he thought intensive therapy and not residential treatment was the best place to start. His experience with residential treatment centers is that they don't take marijuana use and/or non critical admissions very seriously and that difficult child would likely refuse to go or sign himself out and that he may not get any benefit even if he did stay.

    God help us.
    Lasted edited by : Jan 22, 2012
  8. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Sig, I don't want to add to your burdens but I seriously doubt your difficult child is only smoking pot at this point. He is also probably drinking and who knows what else.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm so sorry he came back and added "attitude" to his return. I really wonder...how do our kids come to feel so entitled?? Why do they think that when they turn eighteen they can magically do whatever they want? Do they not get that it's still OUR house, OUR rules?

    I am waiting to see how long difficult child can stay in your house before he causes too much chaos and/or leaves again. I mean, I hope it doesn't happen, but I've had one like him myself and she always blew every chance we gave her until she finally had to leave for good.

    I really do hope that things go better than expected though. Honestly, with these kids, you just never know...
  10. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Thanks MM - I am very jaded at this point. H made it clear that if he leaves again he is not welcome back- not for Christmas dinners, not for school breaks (he still thinks he is going away to school in the future) not for Sunday dinners. So, if he breaks the rules or gets po'd and storms off- we're done. And I think h made it clear that he had nerve showing up & moving back in without asking. H told him he could not unpack until he decided he was staying under our terms. Of course he has no where to go. And yes, I think he'll be out again.

    Kathy- I agree. Not sure if it's booze or drugs or depression or related to his trauma & head injury or everything. We will get to the bottom of it IF he stays/cooperates. Residential Treatment Center (RTC) may be in his future but I have nothing to go on right now. Hope the therapist has some concrete suggestions on what to do.
  11. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I hardly know what to say Sig. I don't want to add to your worries either but like Kathy I think he is involved in more than just pot also. Yay for your husband. The only time husband and I ever fought was over difficult child and how she treated me. At one point I threatened to leave husband if he didn't support me IN FRONT OF difficult child. He always supported me but was more of a keep peace kinda guy because he didn't think there was anything we could do to control her. He finally got it and laid down the law to difficult child about her treatment of me. It is so important for your husband to not allow him to treat you badly. If he has any hope in getting married and not being abusive to his wife he had better learn how to treat him mother, and it's husband's job to make sure he does.

    I think you are in for a rough ride here, I've been there. We allowed our difficult child to come back home and promise to follow the rules too many times and because she was using it was impossible for her to do so. I suspect he will try to for a short time but eventually his addiction to whatever he is doing will get the best of him. I know what you mean about the smirk on his face. When difficult child was at her worst her whole face changed, she didn't even resemble herself. I can't even describe what she looked like but she had this constant smirk on her face like distain for us. She looks completely different now. I look back on her fb pictures from her using days and it's not the same person.

    So pull up a chair and make sure it's an comfy one because it looks like you may be here quite a while. I think you should find an al-anon meeting for every day of the week and let difficult child see that you are working your program even if he isn't. So maybe he won't admit he's an addict but you will.

  12. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I know Nancy. <Le sigh> Since the day I started posting here and "met" you and TL, I've had the distinct feeling that difficult child was about a year or so behind your difficult child's on this road. And I know there are some hairpin turns ahead. And I am so not looking forward to it. In fact - h and I were confessing to each other that we were actually relieved that difficult child had left. Of course, difficult child showed up an hour later.
    I appreciate the meeting suggestion and will take it to heart. For now, I need to concentrate on my pcs & the carpooling pc14 needs and MY JOB which I have seriously neglected these past few weeks. I work from home & needed to buckle down last week - plans that were averted when h & started talking to difficult child on Tuesday and then I ran difficult child all over town on Wed & spent Thr dealing with "will he or won't he" and Fri I was dealing w his abrupt departure. Sat was pure exhaustion & today a total loss. I have Y/E tax deadlines that must be met by 1/31 for h's biz and YE billings & sales reports due for my own job by Fri & I am behind the 8 ball.

    I left a desperate "first appointment w Dr T anytime, any place" VM for the therapist. I will go alone or w h if he is available. It's not al anon but hopefully it's a start putting our lives in order including pcs. He is a no nonsense guy and I trust his advice and we will go from there.

    For now difficult child is in agreement & safe in his bed upstairs. It is what it is. Tomorrow; who knows?
  13. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest


    I haven't been here for a few days...dealing with my difficult child...and was so surprised to catch up on your situation. I am surprised you have ny sanity left.

    Maybe it is good you will be busy this next week or two. It might give you some relief from difficult child.

    I am like you....hoping for a miracle yet knowing anothe disaster is coming.

    Sweet dreams...hope you get some well deserved rest!
  14. pinevalley

    pinevalley Member

    Like Nancy said, it sure looks like it will be a bumpy ride for you from now on. You handled the conversation perfectly today with difficult child, and you should feel good about keeping calm in front of him (I know that is not easy to do!) I hope that the therapist has some good advice for you about the next steps for your difficult child. You are a very strong person, and it is so good that you can rely on your h to back you up. I have been saying the Serenity prayer a lot lately for my own difficult child, and I am wishing serenity for you too. HUGS...
  15. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Sig.....more thoughts tomorrow as i just got back but wanted to,let you know ia thinking of you.

  16. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Thank you all. It just hit the fan again and it's not looking good. He is either on something or completely out of his mind. H went to say goodnight & to firm up plans to register tomorrow & he started w the " I just want my money (5300 CD) & I am going back to college town." H wanted me to write a check for his rent just to get him to leave. Of course we both agree its ludicrous but h said that difficult child was giving him the willies. In the meanwhile as h & i spoke- difficult child had packed his backpack & put on a sweatshirt & was preparing to leave. We went to speak to him and his eyes were dead. Like two black holes boring into & staring at h. Managed to convince him to spend one last night in his bed & leave in the morning & if he leaves he may never come back. He has never been violent but frankly his demeanor scares me. In bed now, removed knives from kitchen, locked bedroom door & h is puttering around. It will be a long night. If it wasn't -5 & icy & pitch black, we would've let him go. I said a rosary - I don't know what to do. Pretty sure I want him gone
  17. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    Sig....please know I will be praying for all of you. I know how much this hurts. Hugs!!!
  18. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I know it is middle of the night and you need to keep calm because it is the only sane thing to do, but if he stays, GET A DRUG DOG IN THE HOUSE TO GO THROUGH HIS STUFF ASAP.

    He was being arrogant and an idiot but went to bed calm and then had the sudden change and the ONLY thing that causes that sudden a change is being stoned. This was NOT just him changing his attitude or losing his mind. This was him taking something - some type of pill or injected medicine because if he smoked you probably would smell it in his room and I am not sure he is so sure of you yet to actually smoke something in the house YET because he wants that money money money. The dead eyes, complete change in everything is ONLY caused by being high.

    He has drugs in his possessions. If he stays, go to the store (any drug store, Walmart, Target, etc....) and get the most complete drug test you can, and insist that if he will not give a sample with his father actually watching him urinate (I know, NOT FUN for h but you MUST be sure it is not coming from a balloon or condom tucked up in his underwear) and if he does the whole "storm out because you made the demand and come back agreeing and saying he is sorry he was a jerk" koi then you can be SURE he went and got something to help him fake the test and I KNOW it is hard to believe he could do these things but they learn this EARLY in their drug use. He MUST give a supervised sample WITHOUT storming out to calm down and then MAYBE you will get an idea of what you are dealing with. You also MUST go through his EVERY belonging - this means his bags, his ENTIRE room, his car, anywhere else he spends time and might hide his drugs. This would probably be a LOT easier if you call and speak to the police. Tell difficult child that he can either hand over ALL the drugs and paraphernalia he brought home or he can deal with whatever the police do. I do know how hard this will be, how much you want peace and to do toher things, but this is IMPORTANT, in my opinion. You can ask the police if it is possible to have them bring a drug dog through and use what they find if it is personal use amount/paraphernalia to help force your son into rehab and therapy and getting clean. If they have to arrest him what would be the possible charges and is it possible that if they did bring charges could they be dropped if he got into rehab and got clean?

    MOST of the time the first offenses may just get a ticket, depending on how much is found. Some of the time it can be more, but generally by the tme it gets to court the charges have been suspended pending rehab and if rehab happens then they are dropped/suspended for a year or two and then they can be expunged. I know quite a few parents who have done this.

    Yes, he will get angry. He will say you are making him a criminal and ruining his future. If he has trafficking weight (LARGE amount that if he doesn't sell it would probably kill him), the charges are more serious. As a first offender/early in the cycle offender, he is still likely to be able to get away with very little long term consequences - LONG TERM consequences - but the short term could be pretty hairy and stressful because there would be charges that were more serious. But if he has trafficking weight he is GOING to work and work and work and work on your 14 yo and 17 yo to not be "judgemental" and to "just try it before you say Mom and Dad are so right". He also could get a LOT of scary people coming to your house to either retrieve their drugs/hurt difficult child if he can't sell them and give them their money or to buy from him. Plus then addicts will know where he is living and that he has drugs there and could just come to rob you of the drugs and anything else they want.

    The ONLY way you are going to really be able to be SURE if there are drugs hidden is a drug dog, in my opinion. You can search but the hiding places a difficult child can find for drugs are astonishingly clever. A drug dog can search an area and if there are drugs in a sealed box with soemthing to hide the smell or air freshener or mint around it, the dog will still find it. These dogs are incredible in my opinion.

    I would see this as a deal breaker if it were my kid and we had that sudden change in his entire attitude/behavior last night. This is NOT pot use. I don't even think you are dealing with alcohol. This seems a LOT more like a harder drug of some kind. Pot and booze are scary enough, and you don't want they around the other kids but you also know that the kids have to make choices out at parties, etc.... on those things. But what difficult child is using seems a LOT scarier to me. That sudden dead eyed, demanding, give it to me NOW thing seems like high behavior or some type of serious, scary withdrawal that you likely would not get from pot or alcohol.

    difficult child could have gotten into another drug with-o knowing it and then been stuck. It is pretty easy to tell mom and dad you are doing pot/booze and have gotten over your head. Telling them the other stuff is happening is harder. It could have started with another drug mxed with his pot and then his body craved it and his addiction told him "what is the difference? what is the harm? just a little bit, come on, no big deal" and he got trapped.

    I am hoping you are asleep and see this in the morning. PLEASE at least search all his stuff that he moved back in, and check to see if he pulled up the carpet/flooring somewhere or put something between the mattress and box springs and other fairly easy hiding places. he is not going to expect this and will be FURIOUS, but when/if he storms out, to get back in ALL his clothing/belongings that he brings onto the property MUST be searched. IF the car is in your name, take the spark plug wires so he can't drive. IF it isn't, he can't park on the property unless you can search it.

    I KNOW you don't want to do this. I really do. I also KNOW you don't want him to bring meth or crack or oxy or heroin or ecstasy or other any other drug onto your property around YOU and around your other children.

    You DON"T have to search, or drug test him. (by the way, you can buy those instant drug test things the cops use online fairly easily. You can also send his hair away for a drug test and they can tell you the progression of what he used and wehn he used it because it all comes out in the hair - the longer his hair, the farther back they can tell what/when he used. It might help you to know the progression of his use, maybe. It does take time to get those hair tests back though.) You can only do what you can do. But please please please, understand that his sudden changes ARE from either getting high or hitting heavy duty withdrawal. It is ALL the addiction talking. ALL of it.

    I understand that this may be more than you are ready for right now. And that SOME of the problems are PTSD/Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) related. Those don't cause the sudden change though. I pray for your family that this can be healed fairly quickly and will not spread to your other sons. They ALL have so much going for them, such an unlimited future. (((((hugs)))))
  19. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Sig, we spent a lot of nights behind a locked bedroom door. Even sadder, our easy child often asked to sleep in our room and I found out later that difficult child had been threatening her saying she would do something while easy child slept if she told on her.

    Personally, I would have let him leave but I realize that you and your husband are not at the point yet. I think Susie is right. . . a sudden change like that can only be explained by drug use. I agree with getting a drug test or taking him to a lab that does drug testing. If he tests positive for harder drugs that would give you an argument for rehab.


  20. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    Oh my Sig,

    Sure does sound like a rapidly evolving situation...I will certainly stay tuned and be here for you.

    That concerns me that your husband had the "willies". Has husband been afraid of difficult child in the past?
    Please forgive me Sig, I don't know the history of your difficult child's bio-dad...can you tell me a bit about that? If you don't want to right now, I understand, cause you are obviously going through a very stressful episode in your family right now.

    I am here to give you support and sure hope there was no further drama in the middle of the night.
    Please take care of yourself too.