How do I prove difficult child is emotionally abusing me

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by FlowerGarden, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. FlowerGarden

    FlowerGarden Active Member

    difficult child is emotionally abusing me. He denies it to everyone and says that I am just trying to get him in trouble. When he is in a room alone with me, he will say horrible things to me and keep repeating them over and over. Here's some of the things he was saying to me this morning - "You are a c**t, A b****h," and more cuss names. "Dad is so fat that he is going to die. Just think of the fat building in his arteries. Think of it getting thicker and thicker. Picture his blood not being able to fit through his arteries anymore." He said much more.

    He whispered in my ear, "I am going to make it so that easy child 1 doesn't want to come here anymore." Said the same about easy child 2 and other relatives.

    I literally ran to husband who was in another part of the house. difficult child denied saying all that to me and said that all he said to me was that he loved me.

    It's as if he is trying to make it look like I am delusional when it is him. He keeps telling his clinician etc that I am saying things to get him out of the house. We had him approved to go to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) but in NJ he can say he doesn't want to and he doesn't have to. He's in partial right now but would not go today. Clinician still hasn't returned my call yet.

    How can I prove what he is saying to me because he does it when no one else can hear?
  2. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Tape recorder. Get one that fits in your pocket and have it recording anytime he is alone with you. Or hide a video camera.

    Of course, you may want to check into the legality of this if you intend to use it outside of just providing proof to your husband.
  3. ggluvbug

    ggluvbug New Member

    I was going to say the same thing. You can buy a small MP3 voice recorder and put it in your pocket.
    I am sorry that you have to listen to that.
  4. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Hugs. You should not have to listen to that at all.

    He says these things for a reaction. I am so sorry.

    Record it somehow, someway.
  5. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Record it but don't play it for your husband in front of him. Wait until you are alone with husband. You may not want to clue your difficult child into the fact that you are taping, you may need it again.
  6. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator


    Self-activating recorder.
  7. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Sorry... we have a self activating voice recorder from radio shack, didn't cost much... I use it for tapes for Grandma, Also our video recorder is small and we can hide it and turn off all of the sounds... it has a tiny remote that I put in my pocket... I have taped K many times without her knowing it.

    Good luck...
  8. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    Staples has some small tape recorder for 10 bucks. You shouldn't have to prove it to husband. Ignore it. Say...mmm-hmm. Tape it. Keep the recorder in your pocket. A child doesn't have to stay in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) if he doesn't want to? That's insane.-Alyssa I'm sorry he's acting like this.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Who do you want to prove it to? Just curious.
    To be honest, if he's that difficult, and refusing to get any help for his disorders, I'd be counting the days until he's eighteen and then give him a big ultimatum: He gets very serious about his treatment, is medication compliant, gets therapy, and tries to improve or he is out on his own.
    I can promise you this: WE BELIEVE YOU!!!!

  10. Dara

    Dara New Member

    ALl I can do is say I am sorry you have to listen to that. I am just sending hugs your way.
  11. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    He's wanting a reaction, so whatever you do - DON'T REACT!

    I know it's easier said than done, all you can do is keep telling yourself he's just putting on an act. An act not only for your benefit, but a different act for everyone else.

    Frankly, he sounds bored and trying to amuse himself by playing mind games. And it takes two or more to play.

    If he KNOWS you are likely to be taping him and he can't stop you (because he doesn't know where, or how) then he will be more careful about what he says to you. Win-win.
    The only problem with this - if he finds out you are taping him, even THIS is a reaction to him and he will then accuse you of being paranoid and spying on him.

    Me - I'd be leaving home for a holiday somewhere, for a few weeks. Don't say a word about wanting to get away from him. Instead, invent a conference somewhere, walk out happily leaving your darling men to look after themselves. be light, be happy.

    And while you're no longer there for him to get amusement from, wait for husband to discover his own version of purgatory. Or maybe, for difficult child to find another source of amusement.

    I'm not so sure about BiPolar (BP) - frankly, this sounds psychotic. And this isn't necessarily "run from the axe-wielding murderer," because most psychotic people are law-abiding (because they know that breaking the laws can get your liberty taken away). We have laws with deterrents purely for people like this, for situations when a person's conscience is flawed or lacking.

    Once you stop being his source of amusement, he will turn his attentions elsewhere. Or when he leaves home.

    On the hidden tape recorder topic, I've been wanting to check out iPod microphones. Since a lot of people seem to have iPods permanently attached, they tend to slip under the radar and not be seen because of their very obviousness. Hidden in plain sight. If you've got the ear buds draped round your neck also, then he mightn't even notice that the iPod happens to be wired for pick-up at the moment, and not merely output.

    You can also talk to various groups online as well as in person, who specialist in spyware. They could also advise you on the legality of what you are doing. I'm fairly sure there are still places which allow you to record minors on your own turf, unless you are recording indecent stuff such as upskirting, for example. Do check it out.

    But don't react. Tell him you're bored by these antics. You have better things to concern yourself with, such as what's for dinner, or the price of fish. Or what colour you're going to paint his room when he turns 18 and you can change the locks.

  12. FlowerGarden

    FlowerGarden Active Member

    I knew I'd get great advice from all of you. I am going to look into your suggestions and order something.

    I feel that some of the people at the partial program he is at do not believe me. I get the impression like I am making a big deal out of something little. It's not only what he says but the tone and way he says it (monotone & like trying to brainwash). He just keeps repeating it over and over also. If I walk away, he just follows. He is so good at not getting caught at doing it to me. The fact that he just comes up to me and whispers in my ear is chilling.

    husband believes he is doing this to me and has been taking off from work whenever he can. Only thing, he's using up vacation and comp time. difficult child is just so sneaky & good at it.

    I don't recall who asked, but in NJ, at about age 14, the kids have an unbelievable amount of rights! It takes about 12 hours to get a child involuntarily admitted to the Children's Crisis Intervention Services unit. Once there they are told their rights as a child. After so many days (off hand I think it's like 7 or 10), they can sign to stay in the hospital voluntarily. If they sign yes, they can decide to leave and must give 48 hours notice. If they sign no, then it goes to court. Most of the kids know the trick to get out if they want!

    If the doctor recommends residential, then it has to be approved by an agency that is state contracted. They have a certain criteria to approve residential. difficult child met that criteria,but at 16, he can refuse!

    We called two lawyers and both said that they could not help us. The agency contracted by the state told me that if we have a problem after he leaves, call the police. Well, I called the police to begin with. It's just a vicious cycle of calling the police, getting an ambulance to the ER, getting him involuntarily admitted to CCIS, getting an ambulance to transport him to CCIS, stays there about 3-10 days, gets released, and eventually we start the whole process over again.
  13. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Hi and Welcome,

    I would like to offer you some perspective (another) view. My son used to do the name calling, I hate you's, and when I would tell people his STANDARD answer would be to look at the psychologist and say "See? See what I have to put up with, no wonder I'm here talking to you." or "She's lying - Mom you KNOW I didn't say it that way." and my favorite "YOU ALWAYS blow things so far out of proportion THIS IS EXACTLY WHY we do NOT get along."

    So to prove my point - I got a little hand held pocket tape recorder and when the words were flying I recorded it and took it with us to the meetings with the psychiatric. I did NOT let difficult child know I had recorded him, I did NOT let the psychiatric. confront difficult child about it. It was for MY satisfaction to lay a foundation of trust with a psychiatric.

    Later on when difficult child started testing the waters for being physically abusive I set up a cam-corder and recorded the entire meltdown. You would think - that showing that to him when he was calm would help, or at least show him he was a major jerk. BUT (here's where my odd perspective comes in)

    HE looked dead at the tape SAW himself grab a bow and arrow, shoot the arrow at my chest, went past me hit the wall where the cam-corder was and DENIED that it was him - he swore to GOD on a stack of bibles we had the tape doctored. He kept screaming THAT IS NOT ME - and he BELIEVED it.

    I would tell you at this point that from PTSD at this point my son was so out of touch with reality that we didn't question that he truly believed it was someone else. I guess that is when we knew for sure he was in bigger need of larger help. At that point I think we had him on Adderal, Clonodine and Welbutrin. None of which would have made put him in a disassociative state. Kinda like when you have those mind leaving the body dreams. Due to his trauma he was there a lot to escape reality.

    One thing I KNOW FOR SURE as SURE as I have survived this child to date - if you and hubby don't show him a united front - you will NEVER EVER win this battle in your home. These kids LIVE to divide and conquer. At 4 years old - my son wanted ice cream. So he came to me and asked - I said fine with me if it's okay with your dad. He said I was Daddy's idea So we both got in the car and were almost to the Dairy Queen before we figured out that we had been bamboozled by a manipulative 4 year old.

    Explain this to your hubby and the next time that your son says awful things - maybe ask your hubby to stand in the hall and listen - then have him walk around the corner for shock value and tell your son that THIS behavior will not continue, that you are his wife, he loves you and respects you and HE doesn't treat you like that and he never wants to hear those words coming out of his mouth EVER again - or there will be severe consequences.
    (My DF used pushups and difficult child HATED them)

    Hope this helps - but seriously talk to your hubby about getting on the same page with you and show difficult child you are TOGETHER - it's a great start. Besides you're going to need to tag team each other if you are going to survive this.

  14. waytootired

    waytootired New Member

    We believe you...a lot of us have heard the same type things from our difficult child's... "Maybe if you didn't weigh 800 pounds I could get out the door." I was holding it shut while he raged. " I hate you ...your a F**K." "If you weren't such a b***h,....." on and on, you get the idea....

    It's tough to hear time-after-time but you really have to get a thick skin and know that they truly don't mean it, they are ill and this is a part of their illness. No it's not fair, but its reality for parents of a difficult child.

    Sending you big, big hugs.... :flower:
  15. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Flower Garden -


    Let us know -

  16. FlowerGarden

    FlowerGarden Active Member

    The partial program told me not to give him his geodon for Wed. AM because the psychiatrist wanted to see him without it before deciding what to do next.

    Well, the psychiatrist called me to tell me that she'd be discharging him from partial and said that she was stopping the geodon in the AM from now on because it was making him too tired. He should just take it in the PM now. He's still to take 500 of Depakote in the AM and 1000 at night.

    She said since he has such reactions to medications that she can't find anything to keep him calm during the day. He gets tired or hyper from the slightest amount of most medications or gets stomach problems.

    So, by the time he got home from the program he was in my face yelling and coming up behind me and screaming in my ear. husband came home and told me to get out for awhile. Went to back the car out and difficult child was standing in the road walking back and forth across the end of the driveway. husband came out and difficult child did move enough for me to back out. Gave husband a hard time for the hour and a half I was gone.

    Today he was in a good mood but he didn't have the program anymore and school isn't having him come back until Tuesday because his case manager wants to have meetings with his teachers to see if they want to modify his program anymore before he comes back.

    I did buy a voice activated recorder yesterday so I am prepared.

    Thanks for all the support. It's such a comfort having all of you to lean on.
  17. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    husband sounds well and truly on board; the school clearly have concerns, so I do think you are being heard. Maybe some people don't think it is as bad as you see it, but you are doing all you can to make it clear/

    Hang in there. let us know how it goes.

  18. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    You need to be aware that a voice activated recorder will start up because of ambient noises, like washing dishes or watching TV. Check it from time to time to be sure that you're not running it out.
  19. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Wow, Star! Yikes!

    FlowerGarden, glad you got some advice you like.
    I can't imagine why the therapist would believe your child over you, anyway. It's usually the other way around. Grrr.

    Good luck!