Hycodan ~ was I wrong?

[Kathy813]

difficult child called and said that she felt really bad and was getting her annual fall sinus infection. She and husband both get them like clockwork (husband had just been to see the doctor this week for the same thing).

I told her to make a doctor's appointment and I would meet her at the doctor's office with a check. I met her, gave her the check, and went shopping and told her to meet me after the appointment with a receipt. She did and we went shopping and had a pleasant evening.

Until . . . it was time to get the prescription filled. difficult child was in the car with me and she called the local discount store to get the comparative prices for the prescriptions so we could get them filled at our usual pharmacy at the discount prices.

Everything was fine until I heard her say Hycodan. I recognized the name and realized it had hydrocodone in it. I told difficult child that I couldn't believe that a doctor to whom she had supposedly told she was right out of rehab would prescribe a narcotic. difficult child claims that she learned in her rehab program that it okay to take things like that when you are ill.

My gut feeling was that I was being played. I told her that I just didn't think that was a good idea and she became argumentative to the point of being frantic. She asked me why I thought I knew more than a doctor. I told her that I might be wrong but the whole thing just wasn't making any sense. I offered to buy her the anti-depressant and antibiotic tonight and the hycodan after I talked to her counselor. She became mad and said that she just wouldn't take any of her medicines and stormed out of the store.

difficult child also claimed that some NA groups say you have to stay away from all narcotics but others say it is okay when you are ill.

So, was I wrong? Or is this a serious red flag?

~Kathy

 

[Nancy]

It's a red flag. No rehab center would tell an addict it is ok to take narcotics even if they are sick. They go out of their way to educated the addict that they must stay away from all medicines that contain certain ingredients, even cold medicine. We got a complete list, and it is pages long, of all the medications difficult child cannot take. In our family meetings we talked about this at great lengths, so that the family knows what to tell medical personnel in the case of an emergency. The people who are telling her it's ok to take this are not being honest. I will look for the information given to us and see if I can post it here.

When difficult child was living in the sober house she was not even allowed to take cold medicine and certainly not mouthwash, most mouthwash contains alcohol. She has to tell any doctor she sees that she is an alcoholic so they do not prescribe anythign that is narcotic.

Nancy

 

[HaoZi]

Red flag. I get sinus infections every winter, more often than not combined with bronchitis. Have since I was a teen. I've NEVER been given anything like this by ANY doctor I've seen for it, strongest was a steroid syrup because my throat was so inflamed. I get a Z-pack, a decongestant and cough suppressant, usually OTC. These days I'm advised to just use Mucinex Cough and no Rx except the Z-pack (which is because it's the only antibiotic that doesn't cause me a yeast infection).

 

[KTMom91]

Red flag. I've never been given anything but antibiotics for a sinus infection that wouldn't go away on it own.

 

[keista]

Her reaction was 100% difficult child and not one you would expect from a person in recovery.

Never heard of a drug addict being told that narcotics were OK even when sick. Especially this early in the recovery process. 20 years down the road? *maybe* In fact they are also told to stay away from alcohol even if alcohol is NOT a problem for them.

Sorry.

 

[Nancy]

That's right, most drug addicts are very surprised to find out they have to stay away from alcohol also. They think it's ok to drink because their drug of choice is not alcohol. It's all the same, it's a mood altering substance.

Kathy do a web search. You will find a lot of information about hycodan and warnings about drug addiction.

Nancy

 

[Suz]

Kathy, your instincts are right on. Good for you.

Suz

 

[Kathy813]

I was so taken aback by the whole thing that I wasn't thinking straight. I wish I had told her to call her sponsor on the spot and ask if he/she thought it was a good idea. I did call her on the way home and offer to go to an NA meeting right then and let them tell us if difficult child was right. She told me that she was "too angry to see me right now."

difficult child was on the phone immediately after she left the store. She said that she was calling the friend's mom that she was staying with. I doubt even that woman would have been stupid enough to buy her the hycodan since she knew she was right out of rehab. I have a feeling she was really on the phone with someone else.

There's more troubling news, too. She ended up finding a third halfway house that I don't think sounds like a good idea. There is no lease - - strictly month-to-month and the director was calling her after she went to see the place asking what it would take "to get her there." She claims that they do have curfews, do drug testing three times a week, have meetings on premises, and require them to get a job in 2 - 4 weeks. It just doesn't sound like a serious rehab facility. She said that they had to be out of bed by noon. Noon? She has pushed back going there until Monday.

The good news is that it is considerably less money and we would not be stuck with paying out a lease if difficult child ends up leaving.

Things don't seem to be going in the right direction. Looking back, difficult child and I had a conversation this week about her going to the dentist (which she really needs to do . . . it has been several years). She asked if she could still get nitrous oxide before she got a cavity filled. She said some at NA said it was a bad idea and others said it was okay since it was a medical reason. She still seems to have a need to find a way to get mood altering drugs.

Nancy, thank goodness for smart phones. I had pulled the research while I was with difficult child and read it aloud to her. She just told me that I wasn't a doctor and that she didn't have any refills so she would be taking it strictly for medical purposes.

 

[Nancy]

I'm really sorry Kathy. It sounds like she is trying to manipulate everyone. difficult child's counselor often told us addicts will do whatever they have to to get their drugs and we should not believe a word they say. She goes on the offensive when you question her, that's a common trait. I think it's time you step back. I know you are desperate and you want to fix this but it doesn't sound like she is ready to give up the drugs yet. I wish I could be more encouraging because gosh knows we need all the encouragement we can get when dealing with our addict difficult children. We need that hope that they will turn it around.

There is hope. I know it may not seem that way, but this is all a process. Each time they relapse they fall faster and harder than before. That's a good thing because they are also forced to realize the problem is much bigger than they admit. Of all the addicts we have come to know since difficult child's treatment, I don't know one who came right our of rehab and went into recovery without some serious setbacks.

But it's time for her to step up to the plate and I think you need to redraw the line in the sand. Be honest with her. Tell her that she is not acting like a person in recovery and you are gooing to start taking care of yourself and you love her and hope that she gets the help she needs, that this is her fight and you are there to support her but you are not there to enable her any longer.

Hugs,
Nancy

 

[Kathy813]

Pull how far back, Nancy? Should we refuse to pay for the halfway house? What do we say after we said that we would?

 

[Nancy]

I would pay for the sober house. I would not pay for any medications/drugs. I would not pay for a dentist so that she can get drugs from him. I would not cart her around. I would tell her she has to enter the sober house tomorrow.

You want her to know that you will support her if she is doing the right thing.

Nancy

 

[DazedandConfused]

difficult child also claimed that some NA groups say you have to stay away from all narcotics but others say it is okay when you are ill.

~Kathy

Just a FYI

NA is essentially a support group made up of former addicts. As a group, they do not have the medical expertise, or authority, to advise anyone regarding the use of narcotics in cases of illness or otherwise. I'm sure there are individual opinions, but I would be suprised if a recovering addict with some solid recovery time would ever endorse narcotics under any circumstances.

 

[Nancy]

Kathy I'm remembering all the things our counselor told us about relapse. She said when difficult child came home from rehab it was not our duty to follow her around and check up on her. She said that role was our old enabling role. Our addict knows what she has to do to stay sober and it's up to her to do that. I remember asking her how we should act then and she said we should question her about what she was doing but we shouldn't follow her or check up on her. And if we suspected or found that she was not following the program we should trust our instincts and call her on it. She said we needed to have our line drawn in the sand about what we would and would not accept. She said if nothing changes nothing changes. What she meant was if we don't change nothing will.

You told her you would pay for the sober house. Let her make those arrangements and tell her to let you know when she is going in so you can pay the rent.

Nancy

 

[DammitJanet]

I think Nancy is right. Even though I have never been there, I have a big feeling that this is the way to go. I believe you can get your daughter her medications on a drug assistance plan from the pharmaceutical companies. If not, maybe you could have them do a mail order to her every month so she doesnt have to go to the pharmacy and have a way to suck you in. As far as needing any pain pills for anything for a dentist or stuff like that, they have non narcotic pain relievers now. Ultram is one. It was invented to bypass the addiction issues. If she needs something more for a toothache, ketoprofen. Thats advil on steroids. Will not be anything addictive. No one really needs gas for a tooth issue. I am terrified by now and dont need it. Tony had never had his teeth done because his parents were dirt poor and he only saw a dentist once in his life when he was in second grade and a dentist came to the school to see the kids. His teeth were awful and he needed to have a ton of teeth pulled. He did it without gas. And he has a needle phobia. Im sure you are sending her to a regular dentist. Tony went to a ugly clinic that is cheap.

 

[Signorina]

You are not wrong. No way no how should anyone be taking an opiate for a sinus infection. I too get bad -often recurring- sinus infections and doctor always treats the pain with OTC medications. Usually mucinex plus sudafed plus Motrin -adding Tylenol if it's really acute pain. Motrin usually works aok for me alone. The mucinex keeps things moving, sudafed relieves the sinus pressure and Motrin treats the residual pain. Plus an antibiotic to treat the infection.

Interestingly enough, difficult child had a root canal last January. For whatever reason, he was not numb enough-felt the whole thing and never told the endo. When we brought him home, he was literally shaking and clammy and I was afraid going into shock from the pain. I took him back immediately & the endo wanted to give him vicodin and difficult child refused and said "no narcotics" so the endo re numbed the area to take the immediate edge off. Then, we were able to manage the pain with the Motrin Tylenol combo.

I would be afraid she could be dr shopping and I would let the pharmacy and her doctors know that she has a narcotic issue. They have a legal duty not to rx narcotics to abusers.

I am so sorry that it's another worry to add to the list. {hugs}

 

[CrazyinVA]

I think you did great, and I would have done the same thing. Oldest knows I will pay for antibiotics, but that I will not pay for any kind of prescription pain medications, ever. In this case, I'm guessing this was the hycodan that's a prescription cough medicine (I had to google it too), and that would make sense for a sinus infection. The doctor probably didn't even think about it if he didn't know she was an addict. But, my feeling is that most serious recovering addicts would have asked what was in it, and asked for an alternative or simply take over the counter cough medicine. Logic says that "prescription cough medicine" = heavy duty stuff. (and by the way, how come I have to beg my doctor to prescribe me that kinda stuff even when I have a horrible cough that keeps me awake all night? lol)

I think paying for anything that supports her recovery, is reasonable. Anything beyond that, is pure generosity.

 

[DammitJanet]

C, no joke! I cant get a doctor to prescribe me anything harder than Robetussin...lol. Instead I just use Nyquil and take my lortab with it...lol but that obviously wouldnt be good for an addict. Billy got something called Tussen pearls which actually worked quite well and they didnt have anything narcotic in them (I dont think) because he doesnt do well on anything with a narcotic because it makes him feel bad. These just made the cough go way down.

 

[buddy]

Ultram is one

This is what I take, one doctor said it was controlled, well it is a lower level of scheduled medication, not narcotic and it can be called in to the pharmacy and have refills. No other doctor I have ever had has said that about it being controlled and my new doctor. laughed.

Anyway it comes generic and I called around...walgreens it was like 50 dollars and Cub was 80 but walmart was 8!!! so I was at Cub and they will match and they only charged 8 dollars. Amazing how that can happen. Really a rip off.

I will say that i have become dependent and if I miss more than two doses, I do start to feel uncomfortable. you do have to go off slowly like for many medicines if you use them for a long time.

 

[toughlovin]

You definitely are not wrong. I have a hard time believing that NA would support taking any kind of narcotic except for very extreme health situations. I know someone well who is not at all connected to my difficult child or my situation who is recovering addict. We have talked a lot about her story and situation without her knowing much about my son. Anyway when she has had health issues she is very clear with tx providers that she is an addict and cannot take any sort of narcotic, and specifically any opiates. When she has she overused them she has had relapses. She has now been sober for 4 years and is an inspiration to me as she had a very serious addiction.... but no I don't think NA would agree with that... although individual members might but wno knows what their stuff is. Your difficult child may still be trying to justify drug use or looking to see what she can get away with.

TL

 

[Nancy]

In addition to what TL said, I'm sure there are people in NA who will say whatever you want them to say. Remember members of AA/NA are addicts, some are active in their recovery and some are there because they are forced there by court.

Nancy