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I need advice - Long
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 143241" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>While I do understand where Mikey is coming from, I agree with you, Heather, that this doesn't seem addictive behaviour. Not addictive to porn, anyway. The problems started long before she was exposed to porn and seem to be linked to something else. Issues related to damage caused by porn exposure - while it should never be trivialised, I don't think that is the problem here. I think it's a symptom of something else. </p><p>Why is she seeking out the porn? Clearly you can't ask her why, but I'm wondering if she's looking for more information and also testing herself as to how much intimate information she can handle. Also, there is perhaps an aspect of morbid curiosity in there. That's where I did what you did - made educational books available, got TV documentaries (Robert Winston's "The Human Body" is brilliant, but watch it first yourself to make sure she can handle it) and found that for easy child it put quality, balanced information there for her to access. On top of that, she had to be able to handle the sex education that is part of the curriculum in Aussie schools. Mikey is correct in that porn gives a distorted, unrealistic view of sexuality in general and also very much sexualises stuff that really shouldn't be. The problem here is in trying to remove the extreme sense of shame, which I don't think came from porn.</p><p></p><p>I mentioned my own daughter's experience because what you described in your daughter sounded so familiar. I had the advantage that she did tell me when she was 7. By 13, she had blocked it out. I wouldn't recommend you asking your daughter about it, you might get a denial-from-fear, or you might get a genuine, "I don't remember," denial and considering the state she's in, I don't think either result would be helpful. I just mentioned it for you to bear in mind, that's all. Sometimes it can give you a different perspective, or help shed some light.</p><p></p><p>I remember being asked, as an adult, why a group counselling session on the topic of childhood sexual abuse had left me so distraught. One of the other counsellors came to me and suggested I really give serious consideration to the possibility that I had been molested as a child, and blocked it out. She felt my reaction was way out of proportion - and she was right, it was. I also wanted to consider the possibility - but when I did dig deep into my memory, I had to accept that nothing happened, if only because my memories of my childhood are so deep, intact and comprehensive. I don't remember having gaps I couldn't remember, if you know what I mean. Realising this gave me a little relief, but I then had to consider why the topic had so distressed me.</p><p></p><p>It took me a few more years and difficult child 3's birth, to show me what was wrong. </p><p></p><p>The damage done to a child who is molested is on a broad scale. It is a crime of violence, of the child having someone else take control over them and use that control to deeply hurt them and to make them afraid, with that fear lingering for a long time afterwards. The child is made to feel of worse than no value, so insignificant that they don't deserve to be here. If this is part of a sexual attack, this can bring in other confusing emotions and hurt linking in to body image and attitude to sexuality and sin.</p><p></p><p>I worked it out for me - it was far simpler. It involved being deliberately emotionally degraded by adults who for their own reasons used this degradation as a means of control. That I was not the only victim only made me feel more insignificant - we were all powerless and would remain so, the best defence was to try to stay below their radar. In our case it was the Elementary School principal and his wife. I also had a couple of siblings who used me as their emotional punching bag, which didn't help.</p><p></p><p>What I'm saying here - my daughter is one example, I mentioned her because her problems after a sexual attack revolved around sexuality and her progress into womanhood. But other damage can be done in other ways which can destroy confidence. It is complex and again, I suspect you won't be able to raise the subject with her because part of her coping strategy is to shut down communication on the topic.</p><p></p><p>And another possibility - that this is just who she is, how she is.</p><p>Example again - difficult child 1. As a toddler we observed he was terrified of animals. ALL animals, even cute ones. Mostly mammals, actually. Birds seemed to be less of a problem. I recall getting him out of the car outside our house, and a little white kitten was on the other side of the road. It was only about two months old and a cute ball of white fluff. It saw us and came closer to the road. difficult child 1 became hysterical, screaming in terror and trying to climb up my legs. I picked him up and he was still crying, clearly afraid that the kitten would cross the road and come near.</p><p>His fear extended to dogs and anything else with fur. A friend met us at the shops, the kids were in the car. She had a tiny puppy, the size Paris Hilton would go crazy for, and easy child wanted to pat it. I held the tiny handful of puppy through the front window where easy child was sitting, and difficult child 1 in the back seat began to scream. I reassured him, said I wouldn't ask him to pat the puppy and I was holding onto it firmly. He quietened down a little but was clearly terrified.</p><p></p><p>At about the same time, he showed the same reaction to getting water on his head anywhere. We couldn't shower him at all, and although he would sit in a shallow bath, we had to wash his head and face with a moist washer, for years.</p><p></p><p>No explanation at all. People kept asking, "Did he have a nasty scare with an animal?" No, not as far as we know. Animals, unlike predatory abusive humans of any age, are not sneaky about traumatising our children. Like all my older three kids, he was in Long Day Care five days a week from 12 weeks old. The place was impossible for animals to get in and the supervision was tight. Any zoo visits - we knew about. None happened while difficult child 1 was there.</p><p></p><p>The water - it is possible that his grandfather aggravated the situation by forcing difficult child 1 to have his hair washed in the bath by throwing him back so he was lying down in the bath, but he wouldn't have let his face go underwater. My parents-in-law minded difficult child 1 and easy child while I was in hospital having easy child 2/difficult child 2. By then his phobias for both water and animals were already a problem. They had no pets and didn't tolerate any animals on their place.</p><p></p><p>What I'm saying - difficult child 1's problems seemed to have no cause. He's overcome those fears now, mostly. Certainly, he was loving working with animals when he volunteered at the local zoo. He said he's not totally over his fear. He copes now with water, washes his own hair and while filming "Mary Bryant" as a convict, he was enjoying having fire hoses of water played on him and garbage bins of water thrown at him, hour after hour (a scene of a storm at sea, convicts in the hold getting wet).</p><p></p><p>But why was he like that to begin with? We just don't know. I think he had an immediate fear reaction on his first exposure and it escalated from there. For difficult child 1, it was just part of his Asperger's/Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). With your daughter's constellation of descriptors, it could simply be just a part of who she is, and just as we give our kids speech therapy, now she's needing other therapy to find a way around this problem. Has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) been ruled out? It would explain a lot.</p><p></p><p>Whatever the cause - counselling can help. It's causing problems and it needs to be addressed.</p><p></p><p>Can you raise the topic with her of her fears and negative self-image? Or maybe just her fears? That way the topic needn't go anywhere near bodily functions (or similar), but just discussing feelings. You probably will need her cooperation to get her to a counsellor. If you can simply say, "I notice you seem very unhappy with yourself, you seem very critical of yourself sometimes and that makes me sad for you, I would like you to feel happier," how would she react?</p><p></p><p>I think you've done all you can, as her mother. She's at an age where she might more willingly talk to a stranger (such as a counsellor). I'm glad you're thinking along these lines and I hope it can help.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 143241, member: 1991"] While I do understand where Mikey is coming from, I agree with you, Heather, that this doesn't seem addictive behaviour. Not addictive to porn, anyway. The problems started long before she was exposed to porn and seem to be linked to something else. Issues related to damage caused by porn exposure - while it should never be trivialised, I don't think that is the problem here. I think it's a symptom of something else. Why is she seeking out the porn? Clearly you can't ask her why, but I'm wondering if she's looking for more information and also testing herself as to how much intimate information she can handle. Also, there is perhaps an aspect of morbid curiosity in there. That's where I did what you did - made educational books available, got TV documentaries (Robert Winston's "The Human Body" is brilliant, but watch it first yourself to make sure she can handle it) and found that for easy child it put quality, balanced information there for her to access. On top of that, she had to be able to handle the sex education that is part of the curriculum in Aussie schools. Mikey is correct in that porn gives a distorted, unrealistic view of sexuality in general and also very much sexualises stuff that really shouldn't be. The problem here is in trying to remove the extreme sense of shame, which I don't think came from porn. I mentioned my own daughter's experience because what you described in your daughter sounded so familiar. I had the advantage that she did tell me when she was 7. By 13, she had blocked it out. I wouldn't recommend you asking your daughter about it, you might get a denial-from-fear, or you might get a genuine, "I don't remember," denial and considering the state she's in, I don't think either result would be helpful. I just mentioned it for you to bear in mind, that's all. Sometimes it can give you a different perspective, or help shed some light. I remember being asked, as an adult, why a group counselling session on the topic of childhood sexual abuse had left me so distraught. One of the other counsellors came to me and suggested I really give serious consideration to the possibility that I had been molested as a child, and blocked it out. She felt my reaction was way out of proportion - and she was right, it was. I also wanted to consider the possibility - but when I did dig deep into my memory, I had to accept that nothing happened, if only because my memories of my childhood are so deep, intact and comprehensive. I don't remember having gaps I couldn't remember, if you know what I mean. Realising this gave me a little relief, but I then had to consider why the topic had so distressed me. It took me a few more years and difficult child 3's birth, to show me what was wrong. The damage done to a child who is molested is on a broad scale. It is a crime of violence, of the child having someone else take control over them and use that control to deeply hurt them and to make them afraid, with that fear lingering for a long time afterwards. The child is made to feel of worse than no value, so insignificant that they don't deserve to be here. If this is part of a sexual attack, this can bring in other confusing emotions and hurt linking in to body image and attitude to sexuality and sin. I worked it out for me - it was far simpler. It involved being deliberately emotionally degraded by adults who for their own reasons used this degradation as a means of control. That I was not the only victim only made me feel more insignificant - we were all powerless and would remain so, the best defence was to try to stay below their radar. In our case it was the Elementary School principal and his wife. I also had a couple of siblings who used me as their emotional punching bag, which didn't help. What I'm saying here - my daughter is one example, I mentioned her because her problems after a sexual attack revolved around sexuality and her progress into womanhood. But other damage can be done in other ways which can destroy confidence. It is complex and again, I suspect you won't be able to raise the subject with her because part of her coping strategy is to shut down communication on the topic. And another possibility - that this is just who she is, how she is. Example again - difficult child 1. As a toddler we observed he was terrified of animals. ALL animals, even cute ones. Mostly mammals, actually. Birds seemed to be less of a problem. I recall getting him out of the car outside our house, and a little white kitten was on the other side of the road. It was only about two months old and a cute ball of white fluff. It saw us and came closer to the road. difficult child 1 became hysterical, screaming in terror and trying to climb up my legs. I picked him up and he was still crying, clearly afraid that the kitten would cross the road and come near. His fear extended to dogs and anything else with fur. A friend met us at the shops, the kids were in the car. She had a tiny puppy, the size Paris Hilton would go crazy for, and easy child wanted to pat it. I held the tiny handful of puppy through the front window where easy child was sitting, and difficult child 1 in the back seat began to scream. I reassured him, said I wouldn't ask him to pat the puppy and I was holding onto it firmly. He quietened down a little but was clearly terrified. At about the same time, he showed the same reaction to getting water on his head anywhere. We couldn't shower him at all, and although he would sit in a shallow bath, we had to wash his head and face with a moist washer, for years. No explanation at all. People kept asking, "Did he have a nasty scare with an animal?" No, not as far as we know. Animals, unlike predatory abusive humans of any age, are not sneaky about traumatising our children. Like all my older three kids, he was in Long Day Care five days a week from 12 weeks old. The place was impossible for animals to get in and the supervision was tight. Any zoo visits - we knew about. None happened while difficult child 1 was there. The water - it is possible that his grandfather aggravated the situation by forcing difficult child 1 to have his hair washed in the bath by throwing him back so he was lying down in the bath, but he wouldn't have let his face go underwater. My parents-in-law minded difficult child 1 and easy child while I was in hospital having easy child 2/difficult child 2. By then his phobias for both water and animals were already a problem. They had no pets and didn't tolerate any animals on their place. What I'm saying - difficult child 1's problems seemed to have no cause. He's overcome those fears now, mostly. Certainly, he was loving working with animals when he volunteered at the local zoo. He said he's not totally over his fear. He copes now with water, washes his own hair and while filming "Mary Bryant" as a convict, he was enjoying having fire hoses of water played on him and garbage bins of water thrown at him, hour after hour (a scene of a storm at sea, convicts in the hold getting wet). But why was he like that to begin with? We just don't know. I think he had an immediate fear reaction on his first exposure and it escalated from there. For difficult child 1, it was just part of his Asperger's/Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). With your daughter's constellation of descriptors, it could simply be just a part of who she is, and just as we give our kids speech therapy, now she's needing other therapy to find a way around this problem. Has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) been ruled out? It would explain a lot. Whatever the cause - counselling can help. It's causing problems and it needs to be addressed. Can you raise the topic with her of her fears and negative self-image? Or maybe just her fears? That way the topic needn't go anywhere near bodily functions (or similar), but just discussing feelings. You probably will need her cooperation to get her to a counsellor. If you can simply say, "I notice you seem very unhappy with yourself, you seem very critical of yourself sometimes and that makes me sad for you, I would like you to feel happier," how would she react? I think you've done all you can, as her mother. She's at an age where she might more willingly talk to a stranger (such as a counsellor). I'm glad you're thinking along these lines and I hope it can help. Marg [/QUOTE]
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