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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 694131" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Tonight we had another talk, my son and I. He had spoken to me disrespectfully giving me a command like, "come here now."</p><p></p><p>He came to me to say that he had slipped up, "and everybody has a bad day." After talking about how hard he is on himself, he says he tells himself he is "a f--k-up and a piece of sh-t" in his head, all through the day, he said he wanted to go to the metro a couple of hours from us and hang out and "clear my head" for the coming week before he sees the psychiatrist. Like a vacation, he said.</p><p></p><p><em>Fine, </em>I said<em>, you are free to go. But with that you need to understand that any commitment between us will be re-negotiated when you return, if you return. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p>He did not like it when I said it before, nor did he like it tonight.</p><p></p><p><em>Well, </em>he continued<em>, I have known people who have gone away from it all, and hung out, and it cleared their minds. And when I did it before, and had a time out to think, it was beneficial and I was able to step up renewed</em> (or something like that).</p><p></p><p>I responded: <em>again, you are free to go. But my understanding of what makes us able to step up, is working through barriers, and seeking support and committing to real life. But if you want a retreat, so be it. Many people have been vagabonds, and found their destiny there. Go for it, if that is what you feel you want and need. We can all talk about what is possible or not when you return, if you return.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p>So he answered<em>: Well the thing is this. I have had 3 vivid dreams the past couple of nights where you and M threw me out. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p>I asked:<em> Is that because I mentioned the drug test?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Oh no, </em>he replied.<em> Just that I perceive from your attitudes that you will get mad and make me leave. A year ago, if something happened like happened tonight you would have thrown me out and had me stay away 6 months!</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Gee. </em>I said.<em> That's a tough way to feel, but entirely realistic. You do have limited control here in my house. I think I might want to have more independence. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>As far as nightmares go, I had one too last night. I dreamt that grandma was still alive and in a nursing home. And when I discovered she was alive I went to get her there, expecting her to be really, really mad at me. And she wasn't!! </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>She said, Hi Copa, happy, and I was flabbergasted. And then? I realized they were giving her heroin in order to cheer her up (so she would not be so mad and demanding). And I was enraged. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p>When I woke up I did not know whether to be sad my mother was dead or happy I was out of that terrible problem with her on heroin.</p><p></p><p>Him:<em> Well, I know that you will never love me as much as you loved your mother!! A fu--ked up adopted son! </em></p><p><em></em></p><p>Me:<em> That's not true! I've made grave mistakes in my life because I am human.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p>Him<em>: Not like me. Look at you. What you were like at my age! </em></p><p><em></em></p><p>Me:<em> I made mistakes. Big ones. You do not know what your destiny is. Nobody does until it meets them.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p>Honest to G-d people. While I have my violin out, and believe this was a maudlin melody, I do not know what he was after.<em> </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><strong>Most of all I am wondering if you think I am being too harsh about his proposed vacation.</strong> What he would do is go be homeless for the week in a forest in an urban area. I think I would be supporting an irresponsible escape. It is not like he is living in aversive conditions here. Actually, now I think he brought this up.</p><p></p><p>I had told him:<em> Son. You need to get a handle on eating other people's food when you live with them. If in an emergency you borrow food, you need to replace it, and then some.</em> (He is notorious for gobbling up everybody's food. If it was just my food, that would be one thing, but he does it to anybody he lives with.)<em> </em>And you need to learn to respect other people's things in general. That needs to be a goal that you need to set for yourself.</p><p></p><p>Now, I can imagine that some people think I am ragging on him too much. But I can see the opposite point of view, that not telling him is enabling him and giving him the sense that he can cross acceptable boundaries repeatedly without being called upon it.</p><p><em></em></p><p><em>In some sense</em>, I am wondering if he should be here with us. Because he is a man. To be spoken to by his mother like this while not intentionally so is emasculating.</p><p></p><p>The prime reason he is here with us, is because the electricity in the other house needs updating before I feel OK about putting the swamp coolers. It is stifling hot. He hates the heat. He is more comfortable here.</p><p></p><p>If he is here, do I not have the right to say what I need from him? Should I insist he leave?</p><p></p><p>M speaks directly to him but sometime M rags to me: he complains about my son's arrogance and lack of respect for other people's things or other people generally.</p><p></p><p>I am looking for feedback here on where I am going off track and where I am doing OK.</p><p></p><p>Sorry to be so long-winded here. Thank you people.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 694131, member: 18958"] Tonight we had another talk, my son and I. He had spoken to me disrespectfully giving me a command like, "come here now." He came to me to say that he had slipped up, "and everybody has a bad day." After talking about how hard he is on himself, he says he tells himself he is "a f--k-up and a piece of sh-t" in his head, all through the day, he said he wanted to go to the metro a couple of hours from us and hang out and "clear my head" for the coming week before he sees the psychiatrist. Like a vacation, he said. [I]Fine, [/I]I said[I], you are free to go. But with that you need to understand that any commitment between us will be re-negotiated when you return, if you return. [/I] He did not like it when I said it before, nor did he like it tonight. [I]Well, [/I]he continued[I], I have known people who have gone away from it all, and hung out, and it cleared their minds. And when I did it before, and had a time out to think, it was beneficial and I was able to step up renewed[/I] (or something like that). I responded: [I]again, you are free to go. But my understanding of what makes us able to step up, is working through barriers, and seeking support and committing to real life. But if you want a retreat, so be it. Many people have been vagabonds, and found their destiny there. Go for it, if that is what you feel you want and need. We can all talk about what is possible or not when you return, if you return. [/I] So he answered[I]: Well the thing is this. I have had 3 vivid dreams the past couple of nights where you and M threw me out. [/I] I asked:[I] Is that because I mentioned the drug test? Oh no, [/I]he replied.[I] Just that I perceive from your attitudes that you will get mad and make me leave. A year ago, if something happened like happened tonight you would have thrown me out and had me stay away 6 months! Gee. [/I]I said.[I] That's a tough way to feel, but entirely realistic. You do have limited control here in my house. I think I might want to have more independence. As far as nightmares go, I had one too last night. I dreamt that grandma was still alive and in a nursing home. And when I discovered she was alive I went to get her there, expecting her to be really, really mad at me. And she wasn't!! She said, Hi Copa, happy, and I was flabbergasted. And then? I realized they were giving her heroin in order to cheer her up (so she would not be so mad and demanding). And I was enraged. [/I] When I woke up I did not know whether to be sad my mother was dead or happy I was out of that terrible problem with her on heroin. Him:[I] Well, I know that you will never love me as much as you loved your mother!! A fu--ked up adopted son! [/I] Me:[I] That's not true! I've made grave mistakes in my life because I am human. [/I] Him[I]: Not like me. Look at you. What you were like at my age! [/I] Me:[I] I made mistakes. Big ones. You do not know what your destiny is. Nobody does until it meets them. [/I] Honest to G-d people. While I have my violin out, and believe this was a maudlin melody, I do not know what he was after.[I] [/I] [B]Most of all I am wondering if you think I am being too harsh about his proposed vacation.[/B] What he would do is go be homeless for the week in a forest in an urban area. I think I would be supporting an irresponsible escape. It is not like he is living in aversive conditions here. Actually, now I think he brought this up. [I][/I] I had told him:[I] Son. You need to get a handle on eating other people's food when you live with them. If in an emergency you borrow food, you need to replace it, and then some.[/I] (He is notorious for gobbling up everybody's food. If it was just my food, that would be one thing, but he does it to anybody he lives with.)[I] [/I]And you need to learn to respect other people's things in general. That needs to be a goal that you need to set for yourself. [I][/I] Now, I can imagine that some people think I am ragging on him too much. But I can see the opposite point of view, that not telling him is enabling him and giving him the sense that he can cross acceptable boundaries repeatedly without being called upon it. [I] In some sense[/I], I am wondering if he should be here with us. Because he is a man. To be spoken to by his mother like this while not intentionally so is emasculating. The prime reason he is here with us, is because the electricity in the other house needs updating before I feel OK about putting the swamp coolers. It is stifling hot. He hates the heat. He is more comfortable here. If he is here, do I not have the right to say what I need from him? Should I insist he leave? M speaks directly to him but sometime M rags to me: he complains about my son's arrogance and lack of respect for other people's things or other people generally. I am looking for feedback here on where I am going off track and where I am doing OK. Sorry to be so long-winded here. Thank you people. [/QUOTE]
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