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In a totally new place and need perspective? Cedar? Anyone?
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 665409" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>I was not responding from anything you wrote, Cedar. I was the first poster on that initial thread. I was directing my response to the initial post.</p><p></p><p>I only posted about my self-doubt on this thread because I feel safe and known here. I trusted you and SWOT and Insane and Nerf (where are you Nerf?) would give me the benefit of the doubt and do the work to understand where I was coming from.</p><p></p><p>In no way Cedar have I ever questioned your choices with respect to your children. If I had, I would have said so, and never held back, as you honor me in telling me your truth with respect to my own child. Nor do I recall anything but mild defensiveness in response to any of your posts, which I have either commented upon or worked through in my responses.</p><p></p><p>I am grateful for your honesty and I respect it. As I do that of SWOT.</p><p></p><p>SWOT has been a ferocious protector of adult children. Including my own. She taught me that I needed to be careful to not reject my child...when I was rejecting the pain.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I was speaking to what I assumed to be a yearning for connection that I believe exists in all of us...for our children. That exists no matter and despite all of the ugliness that overlays it.</p><p></p><p>Like the toxic bottle that you are posting about, Cedar, I believe we protect a locket of pure love for our adult children that we will carry with us as we die.</p><p></p><p>I question how it is that we can accept degradation, disrespect and undermining from our parents or our FOO or our spouse but have such a hard line with children. Of course, we feel rage and fear for our adult children. But some of us maintain relationships with FOO members, almost unquestioningly, that may be equally toxic. Our relationships with our children are the only ones for which we are irrevocably responsible.</p><p></p><p>This is a question. Not a judgment. Because I am suspect, as well.</p><p></p><p>My rage at my son was off the charts.</p><p></p><p>And I never, ever in my life raised my voice to my mother or said one disrespectful thing to her, to my father or to my sister.</p><p></p><p>And that I find interesting...and regrettable. I think the two sets of facts could be related.</p><p></p><p>In the situation where I posted, I came from the position that when there is a communication with my child...I need to be ready for both an attack and a reapprochement.</p><p></p><p>I need to be cognizant that I tend to repeat the same thing over and over again. And it begins to feel like a blow, to my son. An undermining. A taking of advantage. There comes to be a time when a defense comes to feel aggressive. I need to take responsibility for this.</p><p></p><p>That there is a choice possible in these times. A choice that the parent can take to risk something. Not by letting barriers down. Not to accept less than respect. But a choice to not keep piling on...</p><p></p><p>If we choose to keep laying on...we are voting against reconciliation.</p><p></p><p>How many times had that poster said that line to her child? How many more times does she need to say it, if each time she says it it deepens the rift? Are we not responsible for our parts in these ugly dances?</p><p></p><p>I understand that past 30 or past 40 the likelihood that maturity will bring about riveting change in our children, lessens. But it happens. I have seen it when drugs are stopped.</p><p></p><p>And even when there are drugs in the picture do we not have the responsibility to not offend unnecessarily? And by offend I mean from the point of view of the child.</p><p></p><p>To say that our children are responsible does not mean that we are not too.</p><p></p><p>That was where I was coming from.</p><p></p><p>Nobody else on that thread sees it that way. There seems to be the desire to support each other in being strong, but not necessarily in being wise.</p><p></p><p>Yesterday M revealed that he had gone and apologized to the evil sister (who stole the parents' house and kicked out another nice sister who was helping her parents.) While he hated doing it, he<em> apologized for his mother. </em>And for that, he was treated disrespectfully by the evil one. </p><p></p><p>Another nice sister longs to repair the relationship with her evil sister. She justifies this by saying....we all know who she has always been and who she is.</p><p></p><p>When my mother died, I learned that lesson. <em>I loved her because she was mine.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p>Not for what she was or was not. It is the same with our children.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 665409, member: 18958"] I was not responding from anything you wrote, Cedar. I was the first poster on that initial thread. I was directing my response to the initial post. I only posted about my self-doubt on this thread because I feel safe and known here. I trusted you and SWOT and Insane and Nerf (where are you Nerf?) would give me the benefit of the doubt and do the work to understand where I was coming from. In no way Cedar have I ever questioned your choices with respect to your children. If I had, I would have said so, and never held back, as you honor me in telling me your truth with respect to my own child. Nor do I recall anything but mild defensiveness in response to any of your posts, which I have either commented upon or worked through in my responses. I am grateful for your honesty and I respect it. As I do that of SWOT. SWOT has been a ferocious protector of adult children. Including my own. She taught me that I needed to be careful to not reject my child...when I was rejecting the pain. I was speaking to what I assumed to be a yearning for connection that I believe exists in all of us...for our children. That exists no matter and despite all of the ugliness that overlays it. Like the toxic bottle that you are posting about, Cedar, I believe we protect a locket of pure love for our adult children that we will carry with us as we die. I question how it is that we can accept degradation, disrespect and undermining from our parents or our FOO or our spouse but have such a hard line with children. Of course, we feel rage and fear for our adult children. But some of us maintain relationships with FOO members, almost unquestioningly, that may be equally toxic. Our relationships with our children are the only ones for which we are irrevocably responsible. This is a question. Not a judgment. Because I am suspect, as well. My rage at my son was off the charts. And I never, ever in my life raised my voice to my mother or said one disrespectful thing to her, to my father or to my sister. And that I find interesting...and regrettable. I think the two sets of facts could be related. In the situation where I posted, I came from the position that when there is a communication with my child...I need to be ready for both an attack and a reapprochement. I need to be cognizant that I tend to repeat the same thing over and over again. And it begins to feel like a blow, to my son. An undermining. A taking of advantage. There comes to be a time when a defense comes to feel aggressive. I need to take responsibility for this. That there is a choice possible in these times. A choice that the parent can take to risk something. Not by letting barriers down. Not to accept less than respect. But a choice to not keep piling on... If we choose to keep laying on...we are voting against reconciliation. How many times had that poster said that line to her child? How many more times does she need to say it, if each time she says it it deepens the rift? Are we not responsible for our parts in these ugly dances? I understand that past 30 or past 40 the likelihood that maturity will bring about riveting change in our children, lessens. But it happens. I have seen it when drugs are stopped. And even when there are drugs in the picture do we not have the responsibility to not offend unnecessarily? And by offend I mean from the point of view of the child. To say that our children are responsible does not mean that we are not too. That was where I was coming from. Nobody else on that thread sees it that way. There seems to be the desire to support each other in being strong, but not necessarily in being wise. Yesterday M revealed that he had gone and apologized to the evil sister (who stole the parents' house and kicked out another nice sister who was helping her parents.) While he hated doing it, he[I] apologized for his mother. [/I]And for that, he was treated disrespectfully by the evil one. Another nice sister longs to repair the relationship with her evil sister. She justifies this by saying....we all know who she has always been and who she is. When my mother died, I learned that lesson. [I]I loved her because she was mine. [/I] Not for what she was or was not. It is the same with our children. [/QUOTE]
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