Introduction: I'm not alone

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by mjhawks, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. mjhawks

    mjhawks Member

    Hi, my name is MJ and I'm new here. Stumbled across your forum while searching how to give up custody of my 16 year old daughter. THAT is how out of hand things are here. And do I have to say "difficult child" or can I just say she's a pain in the ass?

    And as I read through some of the post, I was overcome with the urge to cry. I see a lot of hope here, but no real solutions. It's disheartening, to think I may have to be a prisoner in my own home until she turns 18. I also learned, today, that in Virginia I can't just give her up to get her the help she needs.

    I am a 40 year old single mom of two girls. I personally grew up in a house where getting beat was a sport. Having lived through hell, I vowed not to raise my children by the belt. I did all the things parents are supposed to do. I even took parenting classes when my oldest was a toddler. I was determined to be a good mom.

    I'm an artist, of sorts, and would describe my personality as a free spirit. I would love to spend my days laughing and dancing with my girls. I always wanted to be that parent that they could come to with anything. I wanted them to look back on their childhoods and have fond memories. But living with my oldest daughter has changed who I am to the core.

    I call my oldest, 16, DQ, short for drama queen. My youngest is Itty Bit, because she is tiny.

    I didn't really notice at the time, but DQ has always been what you guys call a difficult child. She's my oldest, so I had nothing to really compare her too. I thought her behaviors were probably normal for her age. Looking back, I see the warning signs, and it makes the puzzle complete. Being mean to animals, as early as age 2. Stealing, lying, being sneaky. She was never able to follow directions, or act appropriate.

    It wasn't until Itty Bit was born, that I started picking up signs of danger. She was 5 when I told her not to pick up my newborn from the baby's secure spot while I ran to get the phone. When I came around the corner 30 seconds later, I see her holding Itty Bit up in the air, under her armpits. When she turned and saw me, she dropped her sister!

    DQ's behavior, slowly but progressively got worse. Problems in school, unable to relate to peers. Not following rules at home. We tried some early interventions, such as 123 Magic. That was a joke! I mean it might work for parents of normal kids, but DQ laughed at us. I started to question if maybe I was the crazy one. Maybe I was just expecting too much from her. Not having parented a child before her, I began to think I was the reason she was acting out.

    I was married to an abusive man, Itty Bit's dad. I attributed a lot of DQ's behavior to living in a stressful home. So it was with my children in mind that I took out the protective order, and we got away from him. It was at that point that DQ's behavior took a rapid nose dive. Thinking she was suffering through trauma, I started taking her to a therapist. And that is where our fun began.

    She has been through 4 different therapist, on countless medications. Taken off all medications. Put back on new medications. Been diagnosed with depression, boarderline bi-polar, bi-polar, ptsd, and ODD. She currently has an in-home therapist who comes 3 days a week for a couple hours at a time. She is on call, and will come to the house if needed. We recently had her re-evaluated and they have diagnosed her DMDD. They are stripping all the other diagnoses and putting her in this group.

    Been hospitalized twice for cutting. I'll say at this point, I think her cutting is more for attention and shock value. Once during an argument, when I wouldn't let her go to her grandmothers house, she said to me, "I'm going to cut myself, and it's all your fault." I tried to go on a date once. She called in the middle to say "If you don't come home I might try to kill myself."

    She is explosive, defiant, violent, manipulative. She steals, lies, won't follow any household rules. She has run away. Unable to keep friends for more than a few months, because she uses them until they get tired of it.

    She has tried to have me arrested for assault. She told her friends her step-dad raped her. Told her therapist I abuse her. They called CPS, but the case was unfounded. She was joyful over the fact that I might lose custody of Itty Bit over the whole thing. She's called me a :censored2: and a whore. Told me she can't wait til I die and she won't come to my funeral. Curses out her little sister.

    Jesus, I could fill a book with all the incidences that have happened in just the last 3 years. But I get the feeling you guys have been through it all. So I'll just say what happened this week.

    Food is a major struggle here. She eats like a machine, with no regard for anything. I had a package of candy hidden in the cupboard. I went to get it and it was gone. I knew who took it, because she takes EVERYTHING. When I asked if she took it she played dumb, saying she didn't even know there was butterfinger in the kitchen. So I'm thinking maybe I'm nuts. Maybe I ate it in the middle of the night. I go and look in the trash and the wrapper is there. So I confront her again. Tell her I know she stole it. Ask her what would she did that and then lie right to my face. She looked at me, shrugged and said, "And? What do you want me to do about it now?"
    Her therapist decided she should replace the candy with her own money. She took DQ to the store. When DQ saw that I had eaten some of the replacement, she said to me, "You're welcome." My jaw hit the floor. I was livid. Holding my own anger in is becoming a problem for me. I really wanted to punch her.

    A couple days later, DQ was upset about not getting her way. I've learned not to engage her. I give her my response, one time, and then I do my very best to ignore the impending explosion. Over the weekend, after a 20 minute tirade didn't get a response from me, she said "You're really pissing me off. Don't make me come over there!" I lost my grip on reality at that point and started laughing. Just laughing at the absurdity of the situation. She actually threatened me twice this weekend.

    I may be forced to put up with her in my house until she's 18. I have to live with her stealing my stuff, torturing her sister, eating all the food, smoking weed, drinking, screaming and all other manners of carrying on. But I can tell you, if she comes at me, I will take her down. She outweighs me by 50 lbs and looks over the top of my head. But I'll be damned if my own child is going to physically hurt me, for any reason.

    And this is where we are today. I'm a broken shell of a person. I'm angry at the system because I can't protect Itty Bit from growing up in a house like this. I'm exhausted from research, Dr. appointment, fighting and sleeping with one eye open. I spend a lot of time trying to anticipate her next move. I wonder when she will escalate and try to stab me in my sleep. I am not joking when I say she will probably be diagnose sociopath as an adult.

    My Name is MJ. I'm the parent of a pain in the ass, and I have no say in the matter.
  2. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    I AM the parent of a sociopath and I see from your post that your daughter is well on her way to going that way too (ODD is the diagnoses before they are age 18 - and then it becomes anti-social PD or sociopath). The best advice I can give you is to have her arrested for every single violation of the law. Threatens you? Call the police. Steals? Call the police! Smokes pot? Call the police! Make this "the systems" problem to save your younger daughter and yourself. It sounds like a nightmare the way that you have been living. I don't really understand why her therapist has not told you the same thing I am saying except it would put her out a client. I don't understand how the therapist would sacrifice a small child's safety to keeping a client either. All I know is this is a very combustible situation and the safety of your youngest is what should be your top priority. (and are doing)

    Sorry to say, but in this situation there is only one way to deal with the disordered person and that is to constantly have her removed from the home via the police for dangerous and inappropriate behavior.
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Question: was she exposed to drugs or alcohol in utero?

    This isn't to assign blame. Kids who are exposed to alcohol prenatally are at high risk if Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS)/Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE). It affects how their brains develop. Huge impact on behavior - and they actually cannot help it. Here, most end up in group homes.
  4. runawaybunny

    runawaybunny Administrator Staff Member

    Wow @mjhawks, your daughter is really out of control. I'm very sorry for all of the stress and pain she's putting you through.

    I agree with @2much2recover. If she is stealing or being physically threatening call the police. That is the natural consequence of that type of behavior. You may also be able to use the police reports to convince the therapist to take your concerns about the safety of your younger daughter more seriously.
  5. mjhawks

    mjhawks Member

    No, I didn't drink or do any drugs while I was pregnant with her.
  6. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome to our corner of the world. Sorry you needed to find us. I agree about calling the police every single time she threatens steals, does drugs, etc...

    You should not have to put up with all of this. When my son was younger and violent we went through many hospitalizations and he was on the verge of having to be out of the home when we finally found a medication that really helped to stem the violence. It angers me that there are not more services in place for kids like ours. Sending some gentle hugs your way.
  7. mjhawks

    mjhawks Member

    Will it ever end? Today I came home to a bunch of Itty Bit's friends in the house. Which I love. They laugh and play and do little girl things. Those kind of sounds are a novelty here. So when it happens, it makes me very happy.

    But of course, DQ had to go and ruin it. I found that she had eaten a piece of cake, (that I hid for Itty Bit before DQ could eat it all.) and opened a can of frosting, ate half of it and put it back in the cupboard. Of course I confronted her, and then I changed tactics. I grabbed some of the makeup off her dresser and informer her, that it was now mine, because she stole from me and her sister. She became livid. We struggled at my bedroom door for a moment before I got it locked. (It's a keyed entry, for obvious reasons) I handed her the half eaten can of frosting and walked away.

    I went to the kitchen to finish cooking dinner. A moment later, she came around the corner and said "Here, catch." I said "Don't you dare!" and she threw it at me. With every intention of hitting me.

    I called her therapist, who advised me to call the police. They came and gave her the "Stern talking to", told me to pick my battles and then left. She is unaffected by the interaction. But this is a milestone for me. I called the police, which I have avoided for fear of her having a criminal record. She has tied my hands, and left me know choice.

    Thanks for letting me vent!
  8. Bunny

    Bunny Active Member

    "I'm angry at the system because I can't protect Itty Bit from growing up in a house like this."

    Hello. Welcome to our corner of the web. When I read what you wrote about being angry about not being able to protect your younger child from your older one, it struck a cord with me. I feel the exact same way. When my son is behaving he can be really great, but when his switch gets flipped, watch out!! It gets really bad, and my Difficult Child has told everyone that he will go after Easy Child to get back at me. While I'm not the one who is physically causing Easy Child havoc, I carry a great deal of guilt that I can't protect him better than I do.

    The first time we called the police, our Difficult Child had pretty much the same reaction as yours. She was quiet and respectful to the responding officer, but the minute he left Difficult Child was right back to where we were before we called. It did nothing. He could have cared less that we had to call the police. In his world, it's always everyone else's fault anyway.

    What is DMDD?
  9. Step-monster

    Step-monster New Member

    Your story brought me right back to the way I lived for many many years with my son. My son did exactly the same things as your daughter...I felt like I was going nuts!
    Lately I had been feeling guilty for kicking my son out last May but reading this has made me so thankful I did kick him out. You have a long road ahead....but you can get through it. Everyone here is right. Keep calling the police. Make the system get involved! I hardly ever called the police on my son because I didn't want him to have a record and live a normal life....that was a mistake!
    Please hang in there. Soon, your daughter will have to pay for the many bad decisions she is making. You are are not alone.
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Is Dad in the picture to maybe take her for a while? I am not sure I could live with that. My daughter took drugs and she didn't call me the vile names your daughter has. I would not like her very much, if she was mine (I'd love her, but not like her).I do have a question. Did your daughter have very chaotic early years, say 0-3? Instability? Different caregivers? Any abuse? She almost sounds like she has a form of perhaps attachment disorder. Hurting animals is actually a very serious early symptom of pathological behavior. I'm surprised nobody rang an alarm bell and got her help early on.

    At 16, if she gets a record, it is erased at 18. My daughter had a record as a juvenile, but she doesn't now since she pretty much has not been in trouble at all for so many years. If you feel you are in danger, or your other daughter is in danger, I would call Child Protective Services if the police don't do anything. At the very least they will probably offer help. If the older daughter hurts the younger one, then CPS may be called anyway and it will be worse.

    Take heart that at 18, if you feel she can not live in your family safely, you can pack her bags for her birthday. Sounds cold, but you have another child who needs protection, and YOU need protection too. Hugs!!!
  11. mjhawks

    mjhawks Member

    Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder

    It's new to the DSM-5 as of Dec. 2013. It was explained to me that DQ has a mood disorder, she is depressive and can become manic. But on top of that she has a behavior issue amounting to ODD, conduct disorder. I was also informed that while she can't control her mood, she CAN control her behavior. She just chooses not to.
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Interesting. The description sounds almost like the newer one they are planning eventually to replace borderline personality disorder, which really is not a meaningful title for what borderline is. I had been told by a few psychiatrists that it will be named something like Emotional Dysregulation Disorder, which is what borderline is.
  13. mjhawks

    mjhawks Member

    No, dad is not in the picture. Never has been. It was just her and I until she was 5, when I married my now ex-arse. She didn't really suffer any trauma until she got older, and he treated her like crap. He hit her one time when she was younger and I told him if he ever touched her again, I would kill him. I don't subscribe to that form of punishment, (although at this point if I thought it would do any good, I would give her a serious spanking. But I know it won't help)

    I am not so disillusioned to think I will affect any change in DQ. My goal now is to protect Itty Bit. To keep things as calm as I can for her sake. Trust me, if she ever touched my youngest, she will go to jail. End of story. Itty Bit is about as perfect a child as one could wish for. I often joke that God gave me Itty Bit because he knew I was going to be pulling my hair out with DQ. Anyway, Itty Bit didn't sign up for this crap. So it's my job as her parent to shield her as best I can, until the day comes when we find peace.
  14. mjhawks

    mjhawks Member

    Didn't boarderline replace sociopath? Or was that anti-social personality disorder?
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    No. Borderline is different. Antisocial personality disorder is the most serious of all of the personality disorders. Basically an antisocial has no conscience and studies have been done showing that their brains react to things, especially blood, gore and violence, much differently than other people. They don't get bothered by watching bad things happening to people, like most of us do. There was a study shown on television, explaining the difference between antisocials and others. It was very interesting. Unfortunately, antisocials do not have regular human emotions and lack empathy and approach every person as "What can you do for me?" That's about it. They don't understand, say, love. Some stay within the law. Many break the law because they don't feel it applies to them and think they are smarter than the powers that be. Many end up in jail.

    Our worst serial killers are antisocials, however most do not kill people, although stealing and scheming and conning is often their sport. Basically, they want as much as they can get for as little work as possible. They have little understanding of the emotions others have and do not think of people like most do. They see them more as objects either for their gain or obstructing them, and they can be dangerous to people that they see either way. They can take advantage of somebody vulnerable and steal her blind or they can hurt somebody who they feel is in their way. And they don't feel guilty.

    If you are more interested in antisocial personality disorder, read "Without Conscience" by Robert Hare. I read his book and could not put it down. Sometimes borderlines have some antisocial traits, but they can actually be helped. However, they usually don't want to go for help so they don't and it is no easy trick for them to change their brain wiring so it takes time and a lot of effort and extreme motivation on the part of a borderline. Borderline is more a personality disorder of extremes. They love you or they hate you. The weather is marvelous or it's horrible. They are super nice one minute then choking you the next. There is no stability to them. They are loose cannons ready to erupt. Dialectal Behavioral Therapy/Mindfulness therapy created by DR. Marsha Lineham has been VERY successful with borderlines who WANT TO CHANGE AND ARE MOTIVATED. It's the first treatment that has worked for borderlines and that is only for the ones who admit they need help and are willing to work hard and who don't like being borderline. Unfortunately, most borderlines point fingers at other people. There is nothing wrong with them. YOU made them mad. YOU madethem hit you. YOU made them steal. YOU made them hurt their brother. YOU made them slash the tires of their car. YOU YOU YOU...most never take responsibillity.

    Antisocials can seem very in control. You hear all the time on the news, "I can't believe it. He was such a nice young man, always waved to me and smiled and played with my kids..." about antisocials (when they are being arrested for murder). Borderlines are more obvious as they blow so hot and cold and there is no gray areas in their lives. It's all good or it's all bad and it can change on a dime and it is exhausting for those who live with them. They are prone to raging.

    Borderline has a large inherited basis. If your daughter's birthfather had personality difficulties, perhaps she inherited her personality problems from him, if indeed she is even borderline. She's too young for anyone to say for sure.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  16. mjhawks

    mjhawks Member

    I was trying to remember which one was "formally sociopath". Thats the one my ex-arse was diagnosed with right before I left him. (He refused to medicate.)

    I believe that DQ will be diagnosed a sociopath. Not psychopath. Although she evaluates people based on what they can do for her. I think that's more narcissistic. A sense of entitlement that the world revolves around her.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I didn't know there was a difference.

    Medication doesn't change antisocial personality disorder. There are no medications that really help personality disorders. You are better off without him.

    My dad is a classic narcissistic. He has NO interest in anything unless it's him. Everything you say he turns into something about him. He has always been extremely difficult. My mom was a borderline. You may understand why I don't see my family of origin much!!! The only one I still talk to is my father and it's mostly because he is already so old...not going to walk on him now, but won't let him abuse me anymore either.

    And I'm sorry about your daughter.
  18. Bloomer789

    Bloomer789 New Member

    I'm sorry MJ, your daughter sounds impossible to live with.

    At this point, just keeping trying to get her the help she needs. (and protecting you and itty) If you are like me, you need to know that you did all that you could for her. That is the best we can do at this point.
  19. 2much2recover

    2much2recover Well-Known Member

    Wow I found this highly inappropriate to ask a new member of this board. People come hear in pain and to ask them to admit to self-blame from the get-go is just mean in my opinion. I have no idea of what possibly the poster of this message hope to accomplish but I just found it mean spirited. I am just pointing it out so the same mistake will not be made again. New people will not stay if they feel judged right out of the gate, especially by people who should no better because they have been here so long. I also think the mods should re-visit whether these kind of blame statements should be made here on the board.
    Just my opinion, take it or leave it.
  20. Bunny

    Bunny Active Member

    MJ, I always say the same thing. The good Lord gave me Easy Child as a reward for being Difficult Child's mother!