Is this a valid concern?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Kathy813, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    As you know, my difficult child has been doing well as of late. Living on her own, working part time and going to school fulltime.

    I should be happy, right? Well, there are some issues that still give me great concern. One is that I think that she is drinking too much and I know she is still using pot at parties.

    I accept that I can't do anything about these things.

    But . . .

    She has been getting her medications filled through a local mental health clinic for over a year. She sees a volunteer psychiatrist once every few months and picks up her medications monthly. She even mentioned that he had given her Xanax for her anxiety. I asked her if he knew about her substance abuse issues and she said "No, I don't want him to think badly of me." :hammer:

    Now that she is covered by insurance, we kept telling her that it wasn't fair to continue going to a free clinic (actually $5 copays). I was delighted to find out that the psychiatrist at the clinic has a private practice covered by our insurance. difficult child has always said that she really liked the psychiatrist.

    Well, difficult child announced instead that she would rather start with someone new on our insurance plan. I asked her why since she liked her psychiatrist so much and she said "Oh, that is more like a crush. I just think it might be good to start over."

    Here is my concern. Last month she didn't have enough money for her phone bill and wanted us to "lend" her the money. Having done it before and not gotten paid back, we said no. She announced the next day that she had been "forced" to sell some of her Adderall to pay for her phone bill.

    That's my difficult child. It's always someone else's fault when she does something wrong.

    So what I'm afraid of here is that she will start with a new psychiatrist (with us paying the copays for the doctor visits and medications) while she continues to go to the free clinic and get medications for free.

    It could provide a nice little side (albeit illegal) income for her. Am I being paranoid here? Is there anyway I could prevent her from doing this if I'm right?

  2. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Let it go, Kathy. The only thing you could do would be to get
    her off your insurance coverage. That doesn't make sense as you
    want her to have health care available for her protection.

    She owns the problems and she owns the solutions. You can not
    protect her...from her. on the other hand, using a different psychiatrist might be a
    good thing because she might feel free to share more with a new
    psychiatrist who doesn't know her history or the rest of her family.

    I'm sorry that she can't just keep taking baby steps forward but
    I think that is true of most difficult children. DDD

    by the way, you haven't mentioned easy child lately that I have read. How's she
  3. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I think your radar is working quite well. It does sound like the plan is to get medications to sell on the street.

    Short of reporting your guesses to the free clinic and whatever psychiatrist she ends up seeing, I'm not sure there is all that much you can do. One thing I would definitely not be doing is paying her co-pay.
  4. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member

    I would just be sure she realizes the legalities and consequences of that illegal activity and step back. It is up to her to do the right thing.
  5. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Thanks DDD, Meowbunny and busywend.

    DDD ~ easy child went through a rough patch this year. After giving up softball and her softball scholarship, she transferred to a new school. It turned out that she didn't like the new college very much and then things were compounded by a breakup.

    We knew that she was unhappy at Thanksgiving but it got worse right before Christmas and she called us one night sobbing that she didn't know what was wrong with her ~ that she was so unhappy, couldn't eat anything without throwing up, and couldn't sleep. This was so unlike my easy child.

    I've been on the CD board long enough to recognize situational depression when I see it so we jumped in the car and went and got her. I found a psychiatrist close to home that was able to see her the next day.

    The psychiatrist diagnosed situation depression (surprise, surprise) and started her on an antidepressant and gave her something to help her sleep. She told easy child it was temporary and that she would be fine after they get her over the hump so to speak.

    I have to admit that it hit me hard to have another one needing a psychiatrist and medications. Oddly, difficult child wants to start going to the same psychiatrist that easy child saw. I am not sure that is a good idea or not. easy child said that she has already told the psychiatrist all about difficult child.

    MB ~ Our agreement with difficult child was that if she did the right thing and went back to school and did well and got back on our insurance, that we would pay the copays. She really can't afford the copays for the psychiatrist visits and medications on a pizza delivery salary.

    I won't go back on that on just my suspicions. I have to say, though, that I keep hearing a siren going off in my head (Danger ~ Will Robinson for all of you baby boomers).

    I thought about confronting her and telling her that since she told us that she had sold her Adderall that I have concerns that she will try to get medications from two different doctors. I was thinking that I could tell her that we would only pay the copay for the new doctor if she typed up a letter saying that she would not need the services of the free clinic anymore since she was now under the care of Dr. XXX and then having us send it by certified mail.

    busywend ~ I'm sure that she already knows the legality of the situation. I made that very, very clear when I heard about the Adderall.

  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Because my daughter used to abuse Adderrall and told me how much it' s worth on the streets ($10/pill) I'd be alarmed. I still wouldn't lend her any money. She could be "playing" you. Is she now drug free? Xanax is an abused drug too...
  7. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    You said you agreed to help her as long as she did the "right" thing. Well, I'd say she quit doing the right thing the second she sold her Adderrall. So, I'll stand by not being willing to pay her co-pay. At least not until things had taken a serious change for the better and no more sirens were going off in my mind. Sorry.
  8. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Does she understand that this is a felony? More importantly, does she understand that if she is caught she will forfeit forever her ability to get a narcotics prescription because no doctor in their right mind will provide her with medications for fear of losing their license.
  9. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Yes, I made it very clear that she could have gone to jail for what she did. She says that it was a one time thing but of course I realize that she knows the right thing to say.

    As far as cutting off copays for medical treatment, I'm not sure what that would be supposed to accomplish. Yes, she made a mistake, a big mistake, but I don't see how cutting off her access to mental health care in retaliation is the right thing to do.

    My husband and I have held our difficult child accountable for her actions. We made her leave our home when she broke our rules, make her stand on her own two feet financially (for the most part), and have made it very clear that we will not bail her out if she gets in legal trouble due to her actions.

    What I am trying to figure out here is if I should be concerned and if there is any proactive action I could or should take. husband just mentioned that we could simply tell her that we feel it would be best if she stays with her current psychiatrist and that is the only way that we will pay the copays. Then she couldn't double up on the medications if that was her plan.

    MWM ~ I realize that Xanax can be abused which is why I asked if her psychiatrist knew about her substance abuse issues. She said that she mentioned my concerns about it's addictive nature and he switched her to Lorezepam. When I looked that up it didn't look any better.

    However, I have learned and come to accept that since difficult child is an adult that there is nothing husband and I can do except let her learn things the hard way. I guess I just answered my own question.

  10. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Call the local pharmacies and see what the policy is for filling 2 prescriptions for the same medication is.

    Here in ohio, I'm pretty sure you can't. Even if you use different pharmacies. Something pops up on their computer screen as a warning the same drug/dosage was prescribed/filled by....and the pharmacy won't fill the new one for as long as the old one is due to last. The only time they'll fill a new script for the same medication is if there is a dosage change.

    I know this because my friend tried it. And we had a mixup when the psychiatrist wrote Nichole's scripts and forgot to put down the new dose.

    This was done with the selling of script drugs on the street in mind. So you might want to check there and see if you have the same set up. Might releave your worries some. difficult child might hesitate to sell her medications if she is unable to get replacements.

  11. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    The only reason I say quit paying the co-pay is because she is using the free clinic and your radar says she is going to try to abuse the system. If that's the case, then the less access she has to get medication, the better for her own sake.
  12. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member


    Thanks! I thought about that but my husband reminded me that difficult child gets her medications at the mental health clinic. Would they be tied into the pharmacy databases?

    Also, the psychiatrist at the clinic gives difficult child lots of samples so that would be another issue.

    The more that I think about it the more I think the right thing to do is to be upfront with difficult child about our concerns and then give her the option of staying with the same psychiatrist in his private practice or sending a certified letter to the health clinic as I mentioned above if she wants us to pay the copays.

    And then dropping it completely and letting difficult child deal with any consequences of illegal activities.

    I feel that I should add in fairness to my difficult child that there is no evidence of this being difficult child's plan. We added her to our insurance in September and she has still not made the switch so she certainly has been in no hurry to do so. In fact, it has been husband and I that have been pushing her to switch to seeing a psychiatrist under our insurance. I just don't understand why she wants to switch to a new psychiatrist once she does make the switch. That's what brought this all up.

  13. Anna1345

    Anna1345 New Member

    I think you have read her like a book and you have every reason to be leary.

    Most places, filling a controlled substance, if it were filled in different pharmacies with different insurance, the chance of her filing them is great.
  14. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    I have to go with those who say that sharing your concerns and let her make her choices. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    You have increasingly grown to the point of healthy detachment with difficult child and rightly so. She is doing good stuff at present. Take some pleasure from her success.
    Not all young adults can be treated the same because not all have the same issues and same reasons for difficult child behavior. It's not a matter of being firmer than others. It's what your particular child needs.
    It's wonderfully hopeful that she is doing so well. She came from behind her peer group and is close to being on the same level of functioning. I hope she doesn't slip up by doing something stupid by selling Adderall. It's best to lose the phone. Jail is not a good place.
  15. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    You can call the mental health clinic and ask if the same policy applies to them. But since they also treat substance abusers (ours does) then I would think they would be linked to the same database. I know ours is because that's where Nichole goes.

    It won't help with samples, but I doubt they'd give her enough samples before they'd start asking questions. Most psychiatrists know what to watch out for.

  16. Coookie

    Coookie Active Member


    I have found that usually our warning bells are accurate. :frown:

    Having said that... I would talk to difficult child, tell her your concerns and let her make her choices. Hopefully they will be good ones.

    It sounds like your difficult child has come a long way and I am so happy. :smile: and I see her telling you that she sold her pills as an attempt to punish you and husband for not loaning her the money for her phone bill. Maybe to put you in a place of worry and perhaps the next time she needs help it will be easier to get? She may have..and she may not have.. Just a thought.

    Our difficult children have us chasing so many bubbles, trying to stop things that may happen. :frown: or may not. :crazy2:

    You sound like you have built a trust with her and she has certainly shown she is able to make good decisions so I think, like I said, I would express my concerns and let her make the choices.

    I have found over the last 9 months that difficult child was gone, making many bad choices, that in order to keep my sanity... those choices were his.. as were the consequences and I just couldn't keep chasing those bubbles anymore. :slap:

    Sending many hugs
  17. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Robby ~

    That's exactly why she did it. She even told husband ahead of time that she would do it if he didn't give her the money. He told her life was all about choices and she would have to make one.

    This is not the first time that she has threatened to do something to make us give her money. A while ago, she used to threaten to sell her car title in order to get money and we told her to go right ahead and she could start walking everywhere when she lost her car.

    She never did follow through. In fact, husband and I talked about this over dinner last night and he doesn't think she even sold the pills. He thinks she had enough money all the time and just didn't want to spend it on her phone bill and thought the threat would be enough to make us give in.

    I think she probably did sell the pills since she didn't deny it when I asked her about it a week later.

    She did become indignant last week when I mentioned it again and said it was a one-time thing.

    So who knows. I am going to invite her to go out to dinner with just me and bring up the fact that a felony conviction for something like this would ruin any chance of a teaching career which is her major. Maybe that will give her pause.

    Thanks, all.

  18. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE

    Sorry to be so late entering into this discussion...

    Kathy, as you know, a felony conviction will make it difficult for her to enter into many (most?) responsible careers. Maybe you can expand that discussion to include others as well.

  19. Star*

    Star* call 911

    If she starts going to a new psychiatrist - and you are making the co-pay you will know if she's going there right? If she's going there - she'll be getting medicine.

    If she's getting medications there - and then goes to the mental health clinic - she's going to get medicine there.

    So she'll be getting medications in 2 places. Selling one places medications to provide extras for herself?

    Do I have this right as your concern?

    if that is the concern - I don't know how you can legally get around it - she's 18 - no one has to give you her information - telling her that you intend to warn someone will only make her hide it more.

    And as far as telling the doctor or not telling him about her abusive side? Don't you think he figured that out? He's not a total moron. I think this would be the reason she wants to get a new doctor more so than staying with the old one. He's figured her out.

    Maybe it would be best at this point to tell her for whatever reason you can't get her on your insurance. That would solve it all together not?

    I guess I'm on the cart with the rest that say "Let it go" because really there isn't anything you could do except call one place or the other and warn them that she's doubling up on medications. for profit. If she is caught it's a felony.

    She's probably feeling very smart right about now thinking she's outwitted the system. I can go to 4 doctors this week, tell each that I have a problem, get a prescription - and have 1 filled at Walgreens, 1 at CVS, 1 at RiteAid and 1 at a private pharmacy - and no one will ever know.

    Sorry you are having to go through this - I'd just drop her from the insurance and let her keep going where she's been going. It's worked so far. And at least she's going. I just worry about her motives. But again - at least she is going.
  20. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member


    husband reminded difficult child that he had the doctor's phone number from the clinic and that she needed to go ahead a make an appointment using our insurance.

    difficult child said, "Oh, I thought that I was going to switch to someone else." husband answered, "difficult child, I think you need to stay with this psychiatrist because he already knows you and what medications have worked and which ones haven't worked.

    difficult child replied, "Good point" and readily agreed to stay with the same psychiatrist that she has been seeing at the clinic.

    Does that mean that I was wrong? Who knows, but at least she didn't push a change in psychiatrists. This way, the current psychiatrist would know that she is not eligible to go to the mental health clinic anymore.

    I still plan to have a talk with her about the seriousness of a felony conviction and how it would ruin her future.

    I do appreciate every one of you that offered your opinions. Even though I didn't agree about taking her off our health insurance (I was too relieved when she finally got back on our health insurance) or cutting off the copays, I did appreciate your input and it gave me things to think about.

    What would I do without you guys???