knowledge across different contexts

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Ktllc, May 6, 2013.

  1. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    I need some ideas here... V is able to do certain things in one context but not another. For example, he knows to raise his hands to ask for help in the classroom, but asking for help on the playground or at home is still very difficult. He needs to be verbally prompted, than he can say if he needs help (a lot better than it used to be as before he had no idea he could get help).
    This difficulty about context also translates into reading difficulties. I made some flashcard of "abstract" sight words like "you", "this", "with" etc.. each word has a picture associated to it (yeah! for google images lol). He is getting pretty good and is able to spell them (this way I know he learns the word not just the picture). The problem: he does not recognize the words in a book. It's like he has never seen them! Even if we did the flashcards 2 seconds ago.
    At the beginning of the school year, the teacher said that he knew zero letters. It was not true: he knew almost all of his letters at home with the cards that I had made. But then he had to re-learn the letters at school, re-learn the letters at speech therapy.
    Makes me wonder what he will actually know next year when he moves up to 1st grade, in a different classroom with a different teacher...
    Do you guys ever dealt with that? And how do you remedy? Everyone, including V gets frustrated and it shows by him saying "I forgot" like a million times a day.
    And no, it is not laziness or attention difficulties. The whole time we work together he is very focused, stays on task and even tells me he wants to keep going without taking a break. He is not getting worse at the end of the work session compare to the start (although it ususally never last more than 20 minutes without a break).
    I remember, as a kid, knowing something very well at school and then trying to discuss the subject with friends or grown ups once at home. For some reason, it was a bit harder. I think it is something of this nature, just a lot more severe.
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi CD Hall of Fame

    My daughter still needs prompts for many things (using her cool down pass, asking for additional help, etc). She doesn't always cross-reference knowledge either. And sometimes when she was young she would cross-reference too much, i.e. raise her hand in situations that did not require it, like in the car to talk to me, then get upset when I couldn't see her hand because I was paying attention to driving. She's gotten better with practice, maturity, talks about what to do when, and real life experience. She's still working on it. Heck, I'm still working on some of it!
  3. Dixies_fire

    Dixies_fire Member

    I had that issue with math but it didn't become obvious until later, like middle school. I have no suggestions as I am probably the least experienced person here but I wanted you to know I'd been through it. A tutor helped somewhat and when I didn't have access to a tutor I did work at school before I came home and "forgot" but I have no idea how these things could be useful to you in your situation.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I have seen this in my own kids. thank you is super smart and in many ways has an excellent memory, but ask him to find something and he cannot. He can even pick the item up and move it to see if what he is looking for is underneath itself. He will truly not know he is holding what he is looking for until someone says something to him. thank you does not ask for help either. Last Sun he took a shower and the cold water handle broke off when he went to turn it off. He called J, very quietly, to come to the bathroom after he put a towel on. I was up and he could have called me. He didn't. He and J BOTH were speaking quietly and I could tell something was wrong but they NEVER used the word help or even asked for anyone to come to the bathroom. Water was spraying out from the pipe behind the wall and it was leaking down from inside the wall all over the floor. I waited five min and then insisted they tell me what was wrong. Really bad knees and hips that day, so getting up took a minute.

    Neither of them showed ANY urgency for getting help. Or for actually doing anything but talking to each other. It blew my mind because he is 13 and she is 17. I kno they didn't wnat to bother us, but really, this was dumb.

    I made each of them practice asking for help. Made them actually say the words with urgency in their voices.
    As it turned out, even after the water to our entire building was cut off, the water still kept spraying full force. They had to shut off water to five buildings to get it to stop! Whoever was the orig plumber for these apartments thought the code book was a gentle suggestion to consider, at least from the stuff like this that has happened.

    Part of it is just a lack of confidence, part a brain glitch that will need time, patience, maturity and hard work to overcome. I have knows a LOT of people who could do something in one setting but not in others. V may need a 1:1 aide if that is possible at school, someone to help him learn to link things.

    I have a theory that some people are lumpers and some are not. Being a lumper isn't bad, it is a way of thinking. To a lumper, as a baby all women are mom, all men are dad. Some people just don't outgrow it.

    It has taken a LOT of work and role playing and social stories to help get the brain glitch sorted out. It will take that with your V. PUSH for a 1:1 for next year for him. It iwll help.
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    ya know that kinda sounds like what they are talking about with the issues Keyana is having where she knows something completely one day and then it is gone at another time. My problem is Im not seeing the same thing on my end but then Im not working with her quite as much as her other grandmother and from what I understand, this was actually diagnosed last year when she was in kindergarten and living solely with her mother who is not the most reliable person to help with homework and such. Just last night I watched as Lindsay misspelled rectangle on Keyana's She told Keyana to spell it rantiancle.
  6. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    There is a name for it, Ktllc, and someone posted a similar note a few wks ago. Heck if I can remember. I'll try to do a search.
  7. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    Yeah, if you could find the name for it. It would be real great. I don't think there is any magic cure but if I can name it, it might be easier to explain to whoever works with him n the future.
    As far as getting an aid... not going to happen anytime soon. He just received an IEP but it is only for 2x 30minutes pull out. The teacher did insist it'd be like a tutoring session with at most 1 or 2 other kids. She did not want him to be pulled out every day and be with the other Special Education. kiddos. She said he is just too advanced for a group like that. Once again, I feel V is the odd ball.
    The day the school really understands how his autism affects his life (sensory, concrete, organization...), he would learn a lot better.
    I'm obvioulsy glad V is high functioning, but sometimes it feels "too normal to get help, not normal enough to thrive".
    I was contemplating getting a tutor, but I'm afraid they (it actually is a group that has a bulding in town) won't use methods that fits his way of thinking. If it is not done in a concrete visual manner, it will be a waste of time and money. I don't know... I want him to really learn at school and I focus on homework. Can't do school after school. Simply not a good idea.
    My bet: he will enter 1st grade and have forgotten almost everything... I really don't know what it will take the school to "see". He is not a disaster. And maybe that one hour/week will do wonders? Or open their eyes to what is really going on? I'm actually very curious to have the opinion of the resource teacher. Someone that will work with him on a consistant basis. Only the people who spend enough time with him get to see his challenges.
  8. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I can't find the exact thread, but so far, I found one that talked about working memory. I would read up on that if I were you. In the meantime, I'll keep searching.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    To be honest, this doesn't sound autism related. Most autistics have fantastic rote memories. Forgetting day to day is not really an autistic trait. I have no idea what this could be. Maybe on top of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), he has an Auditory Processing Disorders (APD)? Ever go to an audiologist? Sounds like a short term memory problem. Spatial orientation? Malika had a long thread about some very interesting learning disabilities. Here's a link on short term memory problems in children and how to help:
  10. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I posted something about working memory and also about visuo-spatial dyspraxia. But really this doesn't sound like it's to do with either of those! My sense is it is to do with literalism - ie things that are learned in one context are not transferred over to another, as though they are valid only in that specific context. In other words, V seems not yet to be grasping the very concept of reading - that the shapes made by letters correspond to sounds that form words that correspond to objects or concepts in the world. I think if that concept were grasped, he would see the interchangeabilility of letters in any context.

    Is there a way of working on this precise thing with him? Having a drawing of a card with one word on it holding hands with a drawing of that same word in a book? Maybe that wouldn't work, I don't know. But some way of illustrating to him that the symbols remain the same wherever they are found and whatever shape or size they are.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Malika, you might be onto something there with the concept part. Most autistic kids learn "rote" very well, like memorizing words, the alphabet, the calandar, etc. Like my son could sight read at two. I thought he was a I realized that although he could memorize like an encyclopedia, he didn't know what the words meant. This part confused me with V.

    Sonic is very literal, but he could transfer one concept to another situation. I'm not sure this is Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), but whatever it is, I'm sure there is help. But it sounds very frustrating to all! And I'm really sorry.
  12. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    To answer some questions: I am using the home made flash cards as reference while he "reads" books. Trying to make him connect that the 2 are actually the same words. But it is SOOO slow and he forgets or gets lost... I agree: i don't think he actually really grasps the concept of reading yet. He still guesses a lot. He is good at looking at pictures to guess what is written. It is a good skill, but he really uses it too much. He does not even think of using the first letter sound of a word as a clue... once again, he has to be prompted every step of the way.
    Not transfering from one context to another is most definitely Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and being a very concrete thinker (V pushes it to the extreme). But how to deal with this??? I have no clue! Specially when the school does not recognize/understand it.
    Can you imagine all this effort wasted trying to constantly re-learn everything. Just like he will sound a word out on one page, then gets it right (with some help) and he has to go through this same process on every single page! If I point it out to him that he has just read this exact word, he will just say "I forgot"...
    Working memory... yes I'm sure there is some deficits there. But once again, it seems like a problem with no solution...
  13. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    He's how old again? 5-ish? And he's a boy.
    Even for a totally NT boy, it's not unusual to be a bit later starting reading.
    So... this might not even really be a problem. But when we're dealing with difficult child kids, we sometimes have no way to tell when to push and when to back off... and nobody else can really tell us either!
  14. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Yes, these kids have trouble extrapolating...

    I've ALWAYS thought my difficult child had Aspergers or some other form of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) because she struggled with this exact thing. She would learn a thing one way - and absolutely could not transfer that knowledge to a situation that was similar, but not exactly the same.

    Basically, we had to do a lot of explaining that THIS situation was really the SAME as THAT situation. And of course, difficult child would be stunned! It is???

    One example: we lived in a cold climate when difficult child was in elementary school. So for her PE classes, she had shorts and T-shirts as well as sweats to wear for outdoor activities. She came home from school one day very upset that she had been cold during gym class because she wore her shorts/t-shirt outside on a cold day. I asked her why she didn't wear the cozy sweats I bought her? Well, it was because it was "gym class" so that meant she was supposed to wear "gym clothes" and her "gym clothes" were the shorts/t-shirt. I had to explain that the sweats were *also* her "gym clothes"...and she was allowed to wear them when it was cold. Had I not specifically explained this? It would never have occurred to difficult child in a million years...

    Get in the habit of pointing out similarities - this is also that - this is the same as the other....that sort of thing.

    Also, practice *matching*. (We did this with clothing.) Spread out a lot of items and ask difficult child to match them color, for example. eg. These "match" because they are both red. Then, ask difficult child to match the same items in a different way. Try matching by size this time. eg. Look, even though these are different colors - they are both the same size. Then try matching again - this type with texture. Look - even though these are different colors, and different sizes...they are both fuzzy. You get the idea...
  15. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    This may sound totally wacky you let him play games on a tablet? I know, screens are bad...everyone says so but Keyana does so wonderfully with learning her words and reading on her tablet. I can input her word list into some of the Apps and she has no clue she is actually learning but she is. She just thinks she is playing a game.

    I think Nerf posted a link on her a week or two ago where you can get a Nabi tablet for $99 if you have a child with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) which you do. That is a very good price and thats an excellent tablet. Its the one I have. Very kid friendly and you dont have to worry about them going somewhere you dont want them to go. I use several apps that ask the child to do things like pop the balloons with the letter A in it for example which is one I used for her when she was younger.
  16. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    V is not into video games at all. I do have tones of apps for him(and everyone else) on my tablet, but he could care less. He will do it if I ask, but it feels like homework to him. Just not his thing...
    After going back and forth a million times, I have scheduled an assessment to get V into private tutoring over the summer. It will take the pressure off of me. I know it is exposing him to yet an other environment but maybe it is a good thing?
    Like daisyface said: really show that xyz is always xyz, no matter what's around.
    Sometimes, I want to keep things oversimplified because it is easier to manage, but then there is the opposite force: expose him to a lot so he gets to learn and gain flexibility at an early age (or start at an early with the hope that it sticks by the time he is 18).