Maybe he's not crying wolf

[TerryJ2]

Today I was going to run an errand and pick up difficult child at carpool and then spend the afternoon sleeping off my cold. (I'm sicker than a dog.) I called the school to tell them, and just at the moment I called, difficult child was called into the office. The teacher said he was extremely hyper and there was something wrong with him. She said it was clear he wasn't acting up, he was clearly unable to control himself. He was supposed to help make cookies or something to help with-the little kids but she did not want him around little kids in that condition.


He claimed his dad had given him 3 cups of coffee this a.m. Say what? I did carpool and he did NOT have coffee. Then he thought he drank L's tea. Nope. I dumped it last night and the teapot was in the dishwasher. Candy? The teacher said he hardly ate any ... and today would be the day, because he has a sensitivity to red dye.

I don't know why he lies like that, except that he doesn't want to get into trouble and wants to blame his behavior on something. Sigh.

Mrs. B said I could pick him up ANY time (meaning "now, please!"). By the time I got there, he had calmed down a bit but was still talkative.

The teacher patted him on the shoulder and reminded him that she was not mad, just that he had to be separated because he was so hyper. He acknowledged her nicely.

husband and I think it's his Zoloft. You may recall that had him on it last month for a wk but we were giving it to him at night and he was up all night, playing video games. Very manic.

We stopped for 2 wks and the psychiatrist said that 87%of kids have a mild manic reaction in the beginning so you're supposed to give it to them in the a.m.

Too much of a coincidence that yesterday he was sweating, dizzy, and saw black spots, and today he was hyper and had a headache. Oh, and yesterday he said his heart was beating loud and fast, and he had me put my hand on his chest. He was right!

We're going to give it to him tomorrow a.m. and watch him closely. If the same thing happens, he's off of it for good.

If it is the Zoloft, I'm wondering if his reaction is because he's mildly bipolar because I know that straight antidepressants with-o a mood stabilizer are not good. We may be onto something here! (The psychiatric hospital people last fall suggested that difficult child had more than one issue and to not rule anything out.)

Wish us luck tomorrow!

 

[klmno]

I think there can be medication-induced mania (or milder hyperness) and it doesn't necessarily mean bipolar. I think it is distinguished by the fact that if it is medication induced and not BiPolar (BP), it will go away after the medication is out of the system, but if it's BiPolar (BP) and the medication has activated mania or hypomania, it will not go away so readily. This requires a psychiatrist getting involved and evaluation'ing every step through this process- not a psychiatric, in my humble opinion.

Don't feel bad for thinking he was crying wolf. I've made that mistake several times- just ask Smallworld. LOL!

 

[BusynMember]

I can't speak for all kids, but I can speak for myself. When I, an adult, took Zoloft (only 25 mgs.) I had a mild manic reaction at first. After two weeks, I was in ER.
Sounds like the psychiatrist is a quack. JMO.

 

[smallworld]

When did you restart the Zoloft?

There are two different reactions to SSRIs that can be confused with each other: disinhibition and mania. Disinhibition begins right when you start the medication and includes hyperactivity and talkativity. This is considered a side effect of the SSRI and typically goes away once the medication is out of the system. Mania generally begins at the three-week or three-month mark and includes increased energy (to the point of not needing sleep), "mission mode," intense irritability and aggression. Mania does not go away even when the medication is discontinued and out of the body. But even SSRI-induced mania does not in and of itself diagnosis bipolar disorder. It is felt among the NIMH researchers in Bethesda, MD, that the child must have a manic episode separate from a drug reaction to be considered to have BiPolar (BP).

I suspect your difficult child is experiencing a side effect reaction to Zoloft and would want to ask the psychiatrist whether the side effects will improve over time or whether the medication needs to be discontinued.

 

[TerryJ2]

Good distinction, KLMNO. All we can do is wait.
So sorry for your reaction, MWM. Scary stuff.
Thank you for a great explanation, Smallworld. You are all great!

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, I forgot to answer the Q, we restarted it about 8 days ago. The last time he was on it was for a wk, as well.

 

[klmno]

Terry, this might not apply to your son at all, but I'm throwing it out because I had no idea about what it meant. When my son was removed from prozac after "going manic", psychiatrist left him off all medications for 6-8 weeks. During that time, difficult child was saying things like he didn't feel pain normally during certain long periods, and other things that I wasn't sure about. The reason it's important for a psychiatrist to be involved, in my humble opinion, is that they can distinguish which chemicals in the brain effect what and what is reaction and what is true symptom. When we discussed the "pain" comment with psychiatrist, he asked about different types of pain, because apparently, different nerves/body chemistry handle a burn different from a broken arm, for example. I didn't know that, much less what that means and how that helps diagnosis and rx, but it does. I am of the frame of mind now that maybe a MS is sometimes needed even if the kid isn't true BiPolar (BP), because maybe AD's/SSRI's can't be tolerated by their system. But, that's just my speculation.

I have had tdocs and psychiatric's involved in mine and difficult child's lives who claim they could diagnosis but that, quite frankly, scares me to death when it comes to a mood disorder. I know there is no way that they can know what a MD(psychiatrist) knows about the various body chemistry and what one type of pain vs another means when it comes to needed medications. My mother has a phd in psychiatric and she didn't have to learn anything like that and wouldn't have a clue, yet, she has said that she could diagnosis Axis 1 disorders. If you take the zoloft out and symptoms don't go away soon, but you aren't real comfortable with the psychiatrist who is rx'ing this, maybe you could get another one on board.

 

[bran155]

Well at least you know there is something going on. Poor thing. I hope you are able to get to the bottom of it soon.

I hope you feel better.

Prayers for the little guy!

 

[Marguerite]

difficult child 3 reacted like this to Zoloft. Other things have problems for him too, including his recent trial of Strattera.

difficult child 3 also would try to find an explanation, wouldn't necessarily try to lie.

I find the suggestion he had three cups o fcoffee interesting. He knows from past experience how it makes him feel so that's what he first tried to use to explain it.

However, with the day off school - even if it was a drug reaction, I still would endorse giving him lots of schoolwork to do, as much as he could handle.

So don't feel guilty.

Marg

 

[Jena]

Hi

I hope you get some rest and feel better and don't feel guilty marg is right. My difficult child same thing on strattera and zoloft.

Hugs to both of you!!

 

[ML]

It does sound like the zoloft is probably not the thing for him. I'm sorry he's going through this and that you are sick. Please try to get some extra rest and drink tea with honey! That helped me feel better. Hugs, ML

 

[TerryJ2]

Thank you all.

Today I only had enough energy to make him a list of chores and take away the PS2 until he finished them. Other than that, he's been on it a lot. I can't wait for husband to come home and take him outside and give him some exercise. He's been very rude lately.
I can't talk or I start to cough, so I have been writing notes to difficult child.

 

[Marguerite]

Terry, a lot of the rudeness is anxiety-driven. I usually deal with it by a gentle reminder that what he just said sounded impolite. I'm quick to say, "I realise you probably didn't intend to sound rude, but you need to be aware of how you sound." I get a lot more apologies these days, although we still get the urgent impatience (which is now how I view a lot of it). He IS learning more self-control even when anxious.

Marg

 

[Nomad]

Possible concern:
Our daughter's psychiatrist said she would NEVER in a million years give a child suspected of having bipolar illness both an antidepressant and a medication like ritalin or adderrall at the same time.
She said she would run the risk of giving one or the other, but never both. I do believe this belief/thought also appears in the book The Bipolar Child and it is a relatively common opinion of those treating those either having bipolar illness or suspected of having it. A possible and rare exception, would be if the child was on a mood stablizer and then one of those second medications might be added, if and only if the child was doing well (not having BiPolar (BP) symptoms). It seems this is the exception, rather than the rule. It seems unusual for both medications to be taken simultaneously and to be taken with-o a mood stablizer is noteworthy. I would consider asking for a second opinion or inquire about the use of a mood stabilizer.

Our daughter had depression symptoms and prozac was added. The depression improved. However, soon it became evident that she was slightly more prone to mood swings...even though she was on a mood stabilizer. The prozac was changed to lamictal and she did much better.

We have thought of adding Ritalin or something like it) small dosage and may do so at some point. However, we know in our hearts that it is tricky business and are unsure if it is really what we want to do.

Stablization takes precedence in our book.

 

[TerryJ2]

So, other than lamictal, what are some other mood stabilizers I can ask for?
Thanks in advance.

 

[klmno]

It depends on the specific problems/symptoms being exhibited. Plus, these react differently on different people. Lamictol is good for more depressive signs, is my understanding. Lithium is the old standard and works well on my son where mania/raging/lack of sleep are involved. Depakote worked well for hypomania/anxiety symptoms (excessive talking, hyperness), but seemed to contribute to raging. Both lithium and depakote (can't remember about lamictol) required blood tests.

It might be good to find a psychiatrist you are comfortable with and let them propose one. It isn't fun to find what works with minimal side effects, then have to add another to take care of whatever the first one didn't take care of, which doesn't always happen but happens a lot. Then, every time there's a growth spurt and burst of testosterone it seems like the medications ended up being re-evaled.

 

[klmno]

The following link has pretty good charts toward the end of the "page" about medications- you have to scroll down pretty far.

http://www.dbsalliance.org/

This is a pretty good website where mood disorders are an issue- if you fish around it gives pointers for families, treatment suggestions, etc.

 

[DDD]

I have no similar experience however I do think that "trying to find an explanation" is probably a better description of his excuses rather than telling lies. It's human nature to sort thru reasons why we do something that is unacceptable. Sending supportive hugs. DDD

 

[TerryJ2]

Okay, I'll scroll through those.

It's hard for me not to use the word "lie" when my son completely concocted the "reasons," DDD. I didn't yell at him ... but he did send us on a wild good chase and I don't appreciate it.

He's been relatively good today and yesterday, except crabby and rude. (Sounds like I'm contradiciting myself, but all of you with-g'sfg know what I mean!)

 

[compassion]

\\Terry, In my espereicne this is manic behavior, amping up and I CANNOT reason wsith it, logical discussions/cosewquences are totally ineffective.

Yesterday difficult child storned out of visit after 10 minutes. I wanted to convey a lot of postives to her. So, I wrote over a hundred positve things and having husband take them when he visits today.

In some ways it is easier for me to accept how ill she is when it is not in my face 24/7. Compassion