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<blockquote data-quote="Star*" data-source="post: 249065" data-attributes="member: 4964"><p><span style="color: magenta">Hi and welcome - So how would you like your insanity served up? With a slice of humble pie? Here's the good news - it DOES get better. Here's the hard news - It's a LIFETIME committment. This isn't going to go away with a pill or combination of pills - it's always going to be there. The pills can help him manage his impulses - but ultimately he has to learn to control his own person. You are going to be more educated about behavior disorders, genetic disorders, disorders of disorders than you ever imagined. In trying to help I will tell you that consistancy (a word YOU will come to hate for years and then LOVE later on in life) is one key to having a child you can somewhat manage. </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: magenta">I see you have many questions - so I'll try to help and put my answers to you in another color. Also - understand this before you get your quills up about any of the answers - I HAVE BEEN THERE with a child that did this and more and so have a lot of others. Doesn't mean your situation is any harder or any less - just means - we understand. So with that in mind - here I go.</span> </p><p> </p><p>My main problem (that I can not tolerate no more) is him peeing in his room. <span style="color: royalblue">It's his room.</span> But he also lies, steals, destruction, food hoarding, peeing in his room, putting holes in his wall, etc</p><p> </p><p><span style="color: seagreen">If you have a liar - you have a liar. For whatever reason they seem to feel that a fabricated answer is much more attractive than the real one. My son is 18 and I'm not saying he never lies but this was a really hard behavior to correct. It's annoying. What didn't help? Calling him a liar, yelling, raising my voice when he lied and embarrassing him (although ya want to just scream - don't). </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: seagreen">What did help? Sitting him down and telling him that he lies. Telling him that from this point in time forward - WE as his parents will assume EVERYTHING he tells us is a lie. "I'm going outside." he said - "Okay - I'm coming to check and see." WE would physically get up and did the "coming to check and see "- EVERYTHING for nearly two months solid. Bathroom, Going to bed, getting a snack, watching tv - ANYTHING that he said he was going to do - WE CHECKED. OMG that was one of the hardest exercises we ever did. </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: seagreen">The result? = Him getting annoyed with US and saying things like - "I'm using toilet paper to wipe my poop too - want to check." and the answer was ...."Sure." - if he was going to be sarcastic - we needed to follow up with a "check and see" BECAUSE HE IS A LIAR and LIARS NEED TO BE WATCHED LIKE A HAWK BECAUSE...you NEVER KNOW WHEN THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH. But if you watch? YOU KNOW they are telling the truth. I dont' know who was going to crack first but it was one of the first exercises we worked on with our new therapist and when he got annoyed and said "YOu dont' have to follow me EVERYWHERE I'm not lying about EVERYTHING!!!" in an angry tone? We had made a break through. So then one check and see, by one check and see - you reduce the number of things you check on - like he says "I'm going outside". Okay after two months of getting up to follow him outside you say "I'm going to trust you to do what you say." and then don't check and see. ONLY ONE THING - the rest you follow him around like a hawk.</span> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: darkorange">Stealing? Ugh - I have NO real good suggestion for that one - beacause my son is a convicted felon and was at 15 - then charged 6 months later when he turned 16 as an adult. We didn't bail him out like the moms of the other two that were with him - we left him go to jail, we visited. We allowed the judicial process to move forward - he is now on probation for 3 years, with HUGE ridiculous fines, and supervision fees, and community service. Has it been an inconvenince? Ugh - understatement of the year. But he's REALLY done what he could to make a 180 in his life and does NOT want to go back to jail - no matter HOW tough the "talk" was - that he could do 3 months there standing on his head. So it's helped in a sense that he HATES to give his money up. (haha really? nice). We also point out our faith and that one commandment - but don't beat it into him with a rod. Know what I mean??</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">Destruction? WOW what an angry young man. Mine has NEVER had a single toy he's kept in one piece. NOTHING - and I mean NOTHING has remained whole. He's beaten things with ballbats...and as long as it was his things? Whatever. But....eventually there has got to be a connection made in his brain that destruction, and destructive behaviors equate to people perceiving him as an out of control person. He needs someone to teach him that it is OKAY to be angry....really it is. I hate when I hear parents say "Don't you get angry' or 'QUIT being angry." because well, everyone gets angry...but you need to learn how to display your anger in an appropriate manner. THAT is a huge step. Those steps are learned by teaching him coping skills. Coping skills take a LOT of time, a LOT of repetition and a LOT of patience. They also involve teaching him about choices. AND it involves YOU and your husband learning a WHOLE new language called effective communication. - IF you're angry and I say to you "Gosh you shouldn't be angry about that." I'm not validating YOUR feelings. I'm basically saying you're feelings don't count. But if you get angry and I say "Must be hard to not get picked for dodgeball." it opens up a communication dialog that IS a coping skill - you are essentially learning HOW to talk to this kid - and in the process - HEAR and Validate HIS feelings. He's angry - YOU sympathize, HE says I DON"T care - you say -"OH YES YOU DO." - WRONG - AGAIN...by saying YES YOU DO - you're telling him his feelings are WRONG...and he shuts down. Instead you say "Well I sure would be." again - agreeing and empathy abound. </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: red">Coping skills are pretty easy to learn, but it takes a long time. Also - he needs an outlet when he's angry - something that is OKAY to do. It could be a heavy bag hung outside that he can hit with his hands, or a ballbat for now - or it could be that you say - I am going for a walk and I'm going to stomp my feet so hard I'll put holes in the sidewalk - want to try it? He'll more than likely say no - and "This" time - is just for him. If your other kids say "I'll try it" then say "Let's you and me do that another time this time is for me and X to stomp holes in the sidewalk." (and yes if you are wondering my neighbors think my family has bugs in the yard or that we're just plain gone) I don't care - I get to go back in with a kid that is learning to control his temper and act out in an appropriate manner. My sons fav. coping skill when he's angry is to say "I NEED A MOMENT" and then he'll walk out. It was one of the choices he had been given as he progressed through learning how to cope with rage and anger. Mine? Mine is to close my eyes, and imagine a box in space and turn it with my mind and then go scream into a pillow AND (since I am the Mom of a difficult child I get a few more) Learn and recite the alphabet in many languages. I can also count to 10 - in many MANY languages. lol. </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="color: purple">Food hoarding? Well - sorry to tell you this but you're going to have to start to lock stuff up. This can also go under the category of lying. Because you have said "Don't take food" and he said "I don't" and he's lying. But if you lock it up - it's a NO PROBLEM - problem. And you'll deal with this in counseling too. There are lots of hoarders on the board. Some with food, some with articles of clothing, some with animals...it varies, but you're not alone.</span> <span style="color: darkorchid">We had a problem with Dude HIDING food -but not hoarding. Also - if there are few things in his room - it makes finding hidden things easier. And from my own sons mouth - every time we pulled a full Riley - Removing EVERYTHING but the bed, blankets and pillow and one comfort item? He would ask us NOT to put stuff back. He said the clutter of a stuffed room made him irritated. So go figure. To this day - even in his own room now - it has a bed, the essentials a few clothes folded in a basket - and a couple photos of his friends - I'd like to see a clock in there so he had to get up for work...(lol ) but besides a lamp? That's it - and that's TOTALLY his choice. He was actually proud to show me his room at his buddies house.</span> </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="color: royalblue">Holes in the wall ? I have to laugh because Dude moved out and there were so many patches on the wall it looked like bumpy wallpaper. I now have a Masters Degree in plaster patching. So do many other Mom's here. You can - leave them. You get cheap posters to put over them - find free posters on the web....its' a nice treat for a kid to get something int he mail....you can use magazine cut outs and tacky dough (NO THUMBTACKS - they become weapons later) or you can go through the expense of patching the holes to keep up with the maintenance. At first? I'd patch - patch patch...OMG what if someone saw them? UGh....then I realized that it was HIS room - and he could look at what he did....ugly holes. He actually did this until one day I couldn't take it any longer and punched though the wall of his room and into my closet and simultaneously kicked my foot through his bedroom wall, broke the 2x4 in the wall and nearly broke my foot off in the wall of my other bedroom. After that display of stupidity and desperation? Dude didn't really hit or make any holes in the wall. Later he said joking - "Please dont' ever use that Southern phrase 'if you' and the follow it up with "I'll break my foot off up in your ### because I think you could do it Mom." What started as a really poor show of my own coping skills actually wasn't a bad thing because at some point even when you think your kids dont' know - they do. That day was sort of a turning point for the walls and our family - Mom had had enough.</span> </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Peeing? Yeahhhhh lovely. Have one that poops and decorates with it and you'll think peeing is a dream come true. have one that does BOTH? And you'll just remove the carpet, cover his bed and mattress in plastic and clean his room to a fresh start where you both inspect the room and see - NO pee anywhere. Put the covers on everything. Learn to make THEM clean it up - no matter HOW long it takes. And again - anytime he goes in his room? Watch him like a hawk. I'm sure you'll get better advice from others on this - but once you start to learn that you're either going to put a child in your line of sight 9 hours a day weekdays and 24/7 on weekends you are ALWAYS going to live with the Whizzer. Dont' make fun of him - but get a special little pail, gloves and a brush and some non-toxic cleaner and supervise him while he cleans up his own pee with his own pee bucket, pee brush and pee cleaner. Make a designated place for him to clean out this pee bucket, pee brush and pee cleaner and supervise him as he does that - then supervise him as he puts it away. </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black">Also - I know this is lame - but find on line - Potty targets - paper targets that he can come get from you - BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN YOUR HOSUE AND ALL YOUR ROOMS ARE NOW LOCKED UP and you are WATCHING HIM LIKE A HAWK....and tell him for every target he gets a bullseye - he can have (then give a reward) say a quarter to save for a big prize on the weekend from the dollar store, or McDonalds. Or use clippy clothes pins on a string that he has NO access to and everytime he pees in the toilet on a target and gets a bullseye (of course he will tell you I HIT IT everytime - that's fine) he gets a clothespin. Each clothespin is worth a dime....and every time he pees somewhere? He looses TWO and cleans his own pee. If he likes to pee outside? (shrug) I have ones that still do this - and well I hate it - BUT - again - they like to have something to aim at. My mother decopauged her toilet when my Dad was alive - apparently he had poor aim. She put leaves in the toilet - towards the bottom flushy thing and voila - better aim. men like to aim.....not kidding. Even in Japan they've started putting flys in the porcelain urinals to help men aim. </span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #000000">Clonodine - was supposed to help Dude sleep at night. It helped him pee the bed. It made him so cold and breath so shallow - They had him on SO much - I finally said no more. WE tried over 65 medications over the years and nothing worked, and little even helped () much. Watching what he ate and helping him get plenty of WEAR YOU OUT FLAT exercise was helpful the most. </span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">Trying not to overwhelm - but hope this helps....and (lol) yeah I know this is just in answer to your first line of questions. Seriously - talk to your therapist about learning EFFECTIVE communication and ask him about starting the CHECK AND SEE - you really can't do it without feedback and since it will frustrate your child - neither can he - he'll need to vent about it. But it helped us. </span></p><p> <span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">Hugs</span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">Star</span></p><p> </p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Star*, post: 249065, member: 4964"] [COLOR=magenta]Hi and welcome - So how would you like your insanity served up? With a slice of humble pie? Here's the good news - it DOES get better. Here's the hard news - It's a LIFETIME committment. This isn't going to go away with a pill or combination of pills - it's always going to be there. The pills can help him manage his impulses - but ultimately he has to learn to control his own person. You are going to be more educated about behavior disorders, genetic disorders, disorders of disorders than you ever imagined. In trying to help I will tell you that consistancy (a word YOU will come to hate for years and then LOVE later on in life) is one key to having a child you can somewhat manage. [/COLOR] [COLOR=magenta][/COLOR] [COLOR=magenta]I see you have many questions - so I'll try to help and put my answers to you in another color. Also - understand this before you get your quills up about any of the answers - I HAVE BEEN THERE with a child that did this and more and so have a lot of others. Doesn't mean your situation is any harder or any less - just means - we understand. So with that in mind - here I go.[/COLOR] My main problem (that I can not tolerate no more) is him peeing in his room. [COLOR=royalblue]It's his room.[/COLOR] But he also lies, steals, destruction, food hoarding, peeing in his room, putting holes in his wall, etc [COLOR=seagreen]If you have a liar - you have a liar. For whatever reason they seem to feel that a fabricated answer is much more attractive than the real one. My son is 18 and I'm not saying he never lies but this was a really hard behavior to correct. It's annoying. What didn't help? Calling him a liar, yelling, raising my voice when he lied and embarrassing him (although ya want to just scream - don't). [/COLOR] [COLOR=seagreen][/COLOR] [COLOR=seagreen]What did help? Sitting him down and telling him that he lies. Telling him that from this point in time forward - WE as his parents will assume EVERYTHING he tells us is a lie. "I'm going outside." he said - "Okay - I'm coming to check and see." WE would physically get up and did the "coming to check and see "- EVERYTHING for nearly two months solid. Bathroom, Going to bed, getting a snack, watching tv - ANYTHING that he said he was going to do - WE CHECKED. OMG that was one of the hardest exercises we ever did. [/COLOR] [COLOR=seagreen][/COLOR] [COLOR=seagreen]The result? = Him getting annoyed with US and saying things like - "I'm using toilet paper to wipe my poop too - want to check." and the answer was ...."Sure." - if he was going to be sarcastic - we needed to follow up with a "check and see" BECAUSE HE IS A LIAR and LIARS NEED TO BE WATCHED LIKE A HAWK BECAUSE...you NEVER KNOW WHEN THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH. But if you watch? YOU KNOW they are telling the truth. I dont' know who was going to crack first but it was one of the first exercises we worked on with our new therapist and when he got annoyed and said "YOu dont' have to follow me EVERYWHERE I'm not lying about EVERYTHING!!!" in an angry tone? We had made a break through. So then one check and see, by one check and see - you reduce the number of things you check on - like he says "I'm going outside". Okay after two months of getting up to follow him outside you say "I'm going to trust you to do what you say." and then don't check and see. ONLY ONE THING - the rest you follow him around like a hawk.[/COLOR] [COLOR=darkorange]Stealing? Ugh - I have NO real good suggestion for that one - beacause my son is a convicted felon and was at 15 - then charged 6 months later when he turned 16 as an adult. We didn't bail him out like the moms of the other two that were with him - we left him go to jail, we visited. We allowed the judicial process to move forward - he is now on probation for 3 years, with HUGE ridiculous fines, and supervision fees, and community service. Has it been an inconvenince? Ugh - understatement of the year. But he's REALLY done what he could to make a 180 in his life and does NOT want to go back to jail - no matter HOW tough the "talk" was - that he could do 3 months there standing on his head. So it's helped in a sense that he HATES to give his money up. (haha really? nice). We also point out our faith and that one commandment - but don't beat it into him with a rod. Know what I mean??[/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Destruction? WOW what an angry young man. Mine has NEVER had a single toy he's kept in one piece. NOTHING - and I mean NOTHING has remained whole. He's beaten things with ballbats...and as long as it was his things? Whatever. But....eventually there has got to be a connection made in his brain that destruction, and destructive behaviors equate to people perceiving him as an out of control person. He needs someone to teach him that it is OKAY to be angry....really it is. I hate when I hear parents say "Don't you get angry' or 'QUIT being angry." because well, everyone gets angry...but you need to learn how to display your anger in an appropriate manner. THAT is a huge step. Those steps are learned by teaching him coping skills. Coping skills take a LOT of time, a LOT of repetition and a LOT of patience. They also involve teaching him about choices. AND it involves YOU and your husband learning a WHOLE new language called effective communication. - IF you're angry and I say to you "Gosh you shouldn't be angry about that." I'm not validating YOUR feelings. I'm basically saying you're feelings don't count. But if you get angry and I say "Must be hard to not get picked for dodgeball." it opens up a communication dialog that IS a coping skill - you are essentially learning HOW to talk to this kid - and in the process - HEAR and Validate HIS feelings. He's angry - YOU sympathize, HE says I DON"T care - you say -"OH YES YOU DO." - WRONG - AGAIN...by saying YES YOU DO - you're telling him his feelings are WRONG...and he shuts down. Instead you say "Well I sure would be." again - agreeing and empathy abound. [/COLOR] [COLOR=red][/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Coping skills are pretty easy to learn, but it takes a long time. Also - he needs an outlet when he's angry - something that is OKAY to do. It could be a heavy bag hung outside that he can hit with his hands, or a ballbat for now - or it could be that you say - I am going for a walk and I'm going to stomp my feet so hard I'll put holes in the sidewalk - want to try it? He'll more than likely say no - and "This" time - is just for him. If your other kids say "I'll try it" then say "Let's you and me do that another time this time is for me and X to stomp holes in the sidewalk." (and yes if you are wondering my neighbors think my family has bugs in the yard or that we're just plain gone) I don't care - I get to go back in with a kid that is learning to control his temper and act out in an appropriate manner. My sons fav. coping skill when he's angry is to say "I NEED A MOMENT" and then he'll walk out. It was one of the choices he had been given as he progressed through learning how to cope with rage and anger. Mine? Mine is to close my eyes, and imagine a box in space and turn it with my mind and then go scream into a pillow AND (since I am the Mom of a difficult child I get a few more) Learn and recite the alphabet in many languages. I can also count to 10 - in many MANY languages. lol. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][COLOR=purple]Food hoarding? Well - sorry to tell you this but you're going to have to start to lock stuff up. This can also go under the category of lying. Because you have said "Don't take food" and he said "I don't" and he's lying. But if you lock it up - it's a NO PROBLEM - problem. And you'll deal with this in counseling too. There are lots of hoarders on the board. Some with food, some with articles of clothing, some with animals...it varies, but you're not alone.[/COLOR] [COLOR=darkorchid]We had a problem with Dude HIDING food -but not hoarding. Also - if there are few things in his room - it makes finding hidden things easier. And from my own sons mouth - every time we pulled a full Riley - Removing EVERYTHING but the bed, blankets and pillow and one comfort item? He would ask us NOT to put stuff back. He said the clutter of a stuffed room made him irritated. So go figure. To this day - even in his own room now - it has a bed, the essentials a few clothes folded in a basket - and a couple photos of his friends - I'd like to see a clock in there so he had to get up for work...(lol ) but besides a lamp? That's it - and that's TOTALLY his choice. He was actually proud to show me his room at his buddies house.[/COLOR] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][COLOR=royalblue]Holes in the wall ? I have to laugh because Dude moved out and there were so many patches on the wall it looked like bumpy wallpaper. I now have a Masters Degree in plaster patching. So do many other Mom's here. You can - leave them. You get cheap posters to put over them - find free posters on the web....its' a nice treat for a kid to get something int he mail....you can use magazine cut outs and tacky dough (NO THUMBTACKS - they become weapons later) or you can go through the expense of patching the holes to keep up with the maintenance. At first? I'd patch - patch patch...OMG what if someone saw them? UGh....then I realized that it was HIS room - and he could look at what he did....ugly holes. He actually did this until one day I couldn't take it any longer and punched though the wall of his room and into my closet and simultaneously kicked my foot through his bedroom wall, broke the 2x4 in the wall and nearly broke my foot off in the wall of my other bedroom. After that display of stupidity and desperation? Dude didn't really hit or make any holes in the wall. Later he said joking - "Please dont' ever use that Southern phrase 'if you' and the follow it up with "I'll break my foot off up in your ### because I think you could do it Mom." What started as a really poor show of my own coping skills actually wasn't a bad thing because at some point even when you think your kids dont' know - they do. That day was sort of a turning point for the walls and our family - Mom had had enough.[/COLOR] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Peeing? Yeahhhhh lovely. Have one that poops and decorates with it and you'll think peeing is a dream come true. have one that does BOTH? And you'll just remove the carpet, cover his bed and mattress in plastic and clean his room to a fresh start where you both inspect the room and see - NO pee anywhere. Put the covers on everything. Learn to make THEM clean it up - no matter HOW long it takes. And again - anytime he goes in his room? Watch him like a hawk. I'm sure you'll get better advice from others on this - but once you start to learn that you're either going to put a child in your line of sight 9 hours a day weekdays and 24/7 on weekends you are ALWAYS going to live with the Whizzer. Dont' make fun of him - but get a special little pail, gloves and a brush and some non-toxic cleaner and supervise him while he cleans up his own pee with his own pee bucket, pee brush and pee cleaner. Make a designated place for him to clean out this pee bucket, pee brush and pee cleaner and supervise him as he does that - then supervise him as he puts it away. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Also - I know this is lame - but find on line - Potty targets - paper targets that he can come get from you - BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN YOUR HOSUE AND ALL YOUR ROOMS ARE NOW LOCKED UP and you are WATCHING HIM LIKE A HAWK....and tell him for every target he gets a bullseye - he can have (then give a reward) say a quarter to save for a big prize on the weekend from the dollar store, or McDonalds. Or use clippy clothes pins on a string that he has NO access to and everytime he pees in the toilet on a target and gets a bullseye (of course he will tell you I HIT IT everytime - that's fine) he gets a clothespin. Each clothespin is worth a dime....and every time he pees somewhere? He looses TWO and cleans his own pee. If he likes to pee outside? (shrug) I have ones that still do this - and well I hate it - BUT - again - they like to have something to aim at. My mother decopauged her toilet when my Dad was alive - apparently he had poor aim. She put leaves in the toilet - towards the bottom flushy thing and voila - better aim. men like to aim.....not kidding. Even in Japan they've started putting flys in the porcelain urinals to help men aim. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000]Clonodine - was supposed to help Dude sleep at night. It helped him pee the bed. It made him so cold and breath so shallow - They had him on SO much - I finally said no more. WE tried over 65 medications over the years and nothing worked, and little even helped () much. Watching what he ate and helping him get plenty of WEAR YOU OUT FLAT exercise was helpful the most. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000] Trying not to overwhelm - but hope this helps....and (lol) yeah I know this is just in answer to your first line of questions. Seriously - talk to your therapist about learning EFFECTIVE communication and ask him about starting the CHECK AND SEE - you really can't do it without feedback and since it will frustrate your child - neither can he - he'll need to vent about it. But it helped us. Hugs Star[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] [COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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