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Mom, what time is it?
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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 565263" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>Some years ago my mom gave me a book written by a dolphin trainer. I cannot remember if it was a parenting book or a book written to help you be a better manager. I know she meant it as a parenting book, but being a business professor she often found ideas in less than traditional places.</p><p></p><p>To train dolphins you CANNOT punish them. They won't respond to you at all and if they are in the wild they won't ever come near you again, at least not in a good way. They remember more than a dog does and they DO hold it against you. So dolphin trainers have to find ways to shape their behavior without ever scolding or punishing. If I can remember the name of the book or if my mom can, I will post it.</p><p></p><p>I don't think that punishment will get you anywhere. I don't think V is being defiant or ignoring you or the directions. I do think the therapist is interpreting his behavior this way. in my opinion the therapist needs as much training as V does if he hopes to work with kids with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified or any other autism spectrum disorder. Focus on breaking tasks down into components. Work first to help V identify what a branch is. Then to identify if he can pick it up. Then where branches are put. Then how to get to that place. Then taking the branch to that place. THen how to put the branch on the pile (on top? this side or that side? Standing upright or laying down? Laying the same direction or angled or perpendicular to the other branches? </p><p></p><p>Break things down to the smallest pieces. Give him a reward for every step. You can make it a raisin, a bead, a penny, an m&m, whatever. If praise is what he responds to, use that. I would work on those things long before I would use time out. Reward what you want to see, ignore the rest for the most part. Make those rewards as tangible as possible so he can SEE them. If praise is what works, get him a little notebook, something pocket size and put it on a lanyard he can wear around his neck. Get those teacher stickers or stamps that say good job, wonderful, etc.... Give him one every time he completes a step. Later you can give him the rewards less often, but at the start of a new task you need them for every single little step.</p><p></p><p>Read some books on dog training. Very few advocate any kind of punishment. Look for episodes of Dog Town on youtube or netflix. It is a show about a no kill sanctuary out west and they show the trainers working with dogs and bringing them around. They NEVER use punishment because it simply doesn't work. I fail to see why we should use more harsh methods with our kids than our pets. I think we are human and sometimes a punishment is needed, but also that we would get a whole lot farther by ignoring anything that isn't truly unsafe. I don't know if I could stick to that all the time, but it is a goal and it works with animals. You can search for "Dog Town full episodes" on youtube to find some of the episodes. </p><p></p><p>I don't see ANY reason to punish V for something he isn't capable of doing. You wouldn't punish him for getting a sunburn instead of a tan, and at this point he probably has about as much control over that as he does over the tasks the therapist wants you to give him time out over.</p><p></p><p>I know our kids are not dogs or dolphins. I do NOT mean to imply in ANY way that they are. It is just another way to look at changing behaviors, and it is a much kinder, gentler way than focusing on punishments. Especially when you have a child who is UNABLE to do what you are asking. This therapist may be good at his job, but he isn't good at the job of helping V, at least not with this approach.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 565263, member: 1233"] Some years ago my mom gave me a book written by a dolphin trainer. I cannot remember if it was a parenting book or a book written to help you be a better manager. I know she meant it as a parenting book, but being a business professor she often found ideas in less than traditional places. To train dolphins you CANNOT punish them. They won't respond to you at all and if they are in the wild they won't ever come near you again, at least not in a good way. They remember more than a dog does and they DO hold it against you. So dolphin trainers have to find ways to shape their behavior without ever scolding or punishing. If I can remember the name of the book or if my mom can, I will post it. I don't think that punishment will get you anywhere. I don't think V is being defiant or ignoring you or the directions. I do think the therapist is interpreting his behavior this way. in my opinion the therapist needs as much training as V does if he hopes to work with kids with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified or any other autism spectrum disorder. Focus on breaking tasks down into components. Work first to help V identify what a branch is. Then to identify if he can pick it up. Then where branches are put. Then how to get to that place. Then taking the branch to that place. THen how to put the branch on the pile (on top? this side or that side? Standing upright or laying down? Laying the same direction or angled or perpendicular to the other branches? Break things down to the smallest pieces. Give him a reward for every step. You can make it a raisin, a bead, a penny, an m&m, whatever. If praise is what he responds to, use that. I would work on those things long before I would use time out. Reward what you want to see, ignore the rest for the most part. Make those rewards as tangible as possible so he can SEE them. If praise is what works, get him a little notebook, something pocket size and put it on a lanyard he can wear around his neck. Get those teacher stickers or stamps that say good job, wonderful, etc.... Give him one every time he completes a step. Later you can give him the rewards less often, but at the start of a new task you need them for every single little step. Read some books on dog training. Very few advocate any kind of punishment. Look for episodes of Dog Town on youtube or netflix. It is a show about a no kill sanctuary out west and they show the trainers working with dogs and bringing them around. They NEVER use punishment because it simply doesn't work. I fail to see why we should use more harsh methods with our kids than our pets. I think we are human and sometimes a punishment is needed, but also that we would get a whole lot farther by ignoring anything that isn't truly unsafe. I don't know if I could stick to that all the time, but it is a goal and it works with animals. You can search for "Dog Town full episodes" on youtube to find some of the episodes. I don't see ANY reason to punish V for something he isn't capable of doing. You wouldn't punish him for getting a sunburn instead of a tan, and at this point he probably has about as much control over that as he does over the tasks the therapist wants you to give him time out over. I know our kids are not dogs or dolphins. I do NOT mean to imply in ANY way that they are. It is just another way to look at changing behaviors, and it is a much kinder, gentler way than focusing on punishments. Especially when you have a child who is UNABLE to do what you are asking. This therapist may be good at his job, but he isn't good at the job of helping V, at least not with this approach. [/QUOTE]
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