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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 330997" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>You need to get into his head, to really understand him and I suspect at the moment that is difficult because the school first, and you second, are looking at his behaviour from a point of view of "what a disturbed child this is! He is very dangerous, very destructive."</p><p></p><p>You are the parent but I feel you are following the lead of the school because after all, THEY are the experts.</p><p></p><p>The truth is - YOU are the expert on your son. You may not feel like much of an expert, but you know him best of all. What you need to do is listen to your own thoughts on him, objectively.</p><p></p><p>Your post begins, "[he] is being violent towards adults and is destroying school property in his classroom."</p><p></p><p>Then you go on to actually describe this, and the picture I get is very different. </p><p></p><p>Your first statement conjurs up for me a picture of a kid deliberately destructive, who seeks an opportunity to attack, to destroy, to injure. I think the truth is very different.</p><p></p><p>He doesn't want to do some worksheets, so he tears the up. Fair enough, I can understand that. It's not acceptable, but it makes sense. It is reactive, it is not openly a matter of planning to be destructive.</p><p></p><p>Then he breaks pencils and crayons. OK< that's taking the "I don't want to do this" one step further. Again, it makes sense. Again, it isn't acceptable, but it is logical.</p><p></p><p>Then he's removed. Fair enough, they want to keep some pencils intact for the other kids. I believe at this point they are going badly astray - a much more effective management (and I suggest you ask them to try this) is to give him the pencils he has broken and get him to use those. You can sharpen a broken pencil to make two, half-length pencils. Ever tried to break a short pencil? Every time he breaks a pencil, make him use it at the new length. This is hwat used to happen to me (and my classmates) in Kindergarten. It is logical consequences, because tey also couldn't afford to always give us new pencils. As a matter of fact, we had to bring our own pencils and my parents couldn't afford much. Any rich kids who threw away a broken pencil would often provide kids like me with new stock. I would rummage through the waste paper basket for the stubs of a broken pencil and sharpen it up myself. Small hands can manage a small stub better than large hands, but it is still more difficult.</p><p></p><p>Natural consequences are logical consequences which directly follow on from the behaviour that has caused them. Conversely, punishment too often looks like vengeance, to a small angry child. And when he experiences vengeance, he will also dish it out.</p><p></p><p>Then he gets removed from the scene and lashes out physically. He doesn't care about teir rank - to him, they are obstacles standing between him and what he wants.</p><p></p><p>Now I hear you ask, WHY does he want stuff so badly that he has to attack other people? Surely we taught him to behave better than that! It's like we have raised a little monster, a wild thing.</p><p></p><p>No, you haven't. It's OK. But somewhere in there, despite your best efforts, the child-raising messages have not got through. Plus the "I want" part of him is stronger than most.</p><p></p><p>There will be good reasons for this. You need help i finding out what they are.</p><p></p><p>In the meantime, normal discipline methods are clearly NOT working, and the more you (and the school) try them, the worse this is going to get.</p><p></p><p>YOU ALL NEED A CHANCE OF TACTIC.</p><p></p><p>First - I would stop punishing him at home, for problems at school.</p><p></p><p>Second - I would want another look at that behaviour plan and ask for a sit-down meeting with the school to formulate a new approach. Aim for logical consequences rather than punishment. Also a very high priority - find out what it is he wants and why he wants it. OBSERVE. The school needs to make observations too. a really effective strategy for us was the Communication Book. This was before schools were regularly using emails to and from the parents, a Book may not be the way to go now, but perhaps emails may be better. But if the school still isn't using email a lot, then bring on The Book.</p><p></p><p>Communication Book is simple. It's any old plain exercise book, with the label on the front and a plastic cover (for some level of preservation - you don't want it falling apart too readily). Give it a bright colour so it looks cheerful (you all will need it) plus is easy to find on a desk cluttered with ripped up worksheets and broken pencils.</p><p></p><p>The aim of the book - you write in it anything of interest tat he has done or how he seems. Your choice. The purposes it for you to use it to communicate with the school. You COULD simply talk to them but it can get tedious and time-consuming. Plus what you say can get lost, you're not the only parent. The Book keeps it there for posterity. The teacher can go back and re-read it. So can you. and it is this re-reading that can help things 'click'.</p><p></p><p>You write in the book. The teacher writes in the book. The book travels in the child's bag between home and school, then back again. NEVER make the Book the child's responsibility in any way. Make sure teachers also understand this. It must not be a focus of the child's attention; plus, the child's level of personal responsibility should never extend to the Book, because it is too important. </p><p></p><p>Children like yours and ours cannot be held responsible for notes to and from school. If the school says to the child, "Make sure this note gets home to Mummy - the note is asking her permission for us to give you ice cream for lunch," then the child has a vested interest in making sure the note reaches home. But if the teacher hands a note to the child and says, "make sure this note gets home to Mummy - it's asking her if she would like to join our lunchtime bridge club," then the child has no vested interest and therefore the note has less chance of success in getting home.</p><p></p><p>Do your utmost to think from your son's point of view. What is happening, from his perspective?</p><p></p><p>It would be really valuable to know what kind of worksheets he is tearing up, and what he has been doing right before he is given those worksheets. If this is happening on a general basis (ie all the time with every worksheet no matter what he is doing at the time) then the problem could be task-changing in general. But lets say it happens with writing practice worksheets when given while he is playing in the sandpit - then the problems could be that his hands hurt when he is trying to hold a pencil (check his hands for over-loose joints, see if his finger joints bend back at all, look to see if his fingernails go pale when he tries to hold a pencil, what kind of grip does he use) or it could be that he finds writing practice a bit confronting especially if he has any dyslexia. Or it could be that he doesn't want to leave the sandpit, he is enjoying some activity there - maybe the feel of the sand, or the look of sand pouring through a funnel, or maybe the way sand takes up other shapes when you force it into a mould. Observe. Watch. Make notes.</p><p>Because tis information can signpost to a diagnosis.</p><p></p><p>I am concerned that the school isn't doing this. I could be selling them short, but your description seems to indicate to me that t heir main concern is his disruptive behaviour overall, and no thought has yet gone into when this happens and therefore why.</p><p></p><p>There are a number of possible reasons for this, a number of conditions your son could have. he is currently going backwards because nothing is being done to find out why, and therefore with underlying problems persisting, trying to discipline this is having a detrimental effect.</p><p></p><p>I've said this before - it is like punishing the blind child for failing to copy accurately from the blackboard.</p><p></p><p>Your son could well be a bright, loving, wonderful kid with a lot of value for the world. But right now he is angry, frustrated, immature and feeling overwhelmed because he has nowhere to turn, no refuge from what is going on, he doesn't understand and he wants to understand. In the meantime, everyone else has to be made to feel as bad as he does. He is not doing this because he wants to. He is responding this way because he knows no other way to express how frustrated and angry he feels.</p><p></p><p>Somewhere in there is your son. He is worth helping. He deserves a fair go. So do you.</p><p></p><p>Welcome to this site. We are parents like you who have been where you are. Your son's problems could be aggravated by the medications - I don't know. Nobody here can diagnose; even a world-class specialist on this site would not be able to diagnose without having the patient there in front of hi to meet, to talk to, to test. However, we can and do make educated guesses, to give you a range of ideas to consider and ask doctors about.</p><p></p><p>So welcome aboard, keep us posted on how you're all getting on.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 330997, member: 1991"] You need to get into his head, to really understand him and I suspect at the moment that is difficult because the school first, and you second, are looking at his behaviour from a point of view of "what a disturbed child this is! He is very dangerous, very destructive." You are the parent but I feel you are following the lead of the school because after all, THEY are the experts. The truth is - YOU are the expert on your son. You may not feel like much of an expert, but you know him best of all. What you need to do is listen to your own thoughts on him, objectively. Your post begins, "[he] is being violent towards adults and is destroying school property in his classroom." Then you go on to actually describe this, and the picture I get is very different. Your first statement conjurs up for me a picture of a kid deliberately destructive, who seeks an opportunity to attack, to destroy, to injure. I think the truth is very different. He doesn't want to do some worksheets, so he tears the up. Fair enough, I can understand that. It's not acceptable, but it makes sense. It is reactive, it is not openly a matter of planning to be destructive. Then he breaks pencils and crayons. OK< that's taking the "I don't want to do this" one step further. Again, it makes sense. Again, it isn't acceptable, but it is logical. Then he's removed. Fair enough, they want to keep some pencils intact for the other kids. I believe at this point they are going badly astray - a much more effective management (and I suggest you ask them to try this) is to give him the pencils he has broken and get him to use those. You can sharpen a broken pencil to make two, half-length pencils. Ever tried to break a short pencil? Every time he breaks a pencil, make him use it at the new length. This is hwat used to happen to me (and my classmates) in Kindergarten. It is logical consequences, because tey also couldn't afford to always give us new pencils. As a matter of fact, we had to bring our own pencils and my parents couldn't afford much. Any rich kids who threw away a broken pencil would often provide kids like me with new stock. I would rummage through the waste paper basket for the stubs of a broken pencil and sharpen it up myself. Small hands can manage a small stub better than large hands, but it is still more difficult. Natural consequences are logical consequences which directly follow on from the behaviour that has caused them. Conversely, punishment too often looks like vengeance, to a small angry child. And when he experiences vengeance, he will also dish it out. Then he gets removed from the scene and lashes out physically. He doesn't care about teir rank - to him, they are obstacles standing between him and what he wants. Now I hear you ask, WHY does he want stuff so badly that he has to attack other people? Surely we taught him to behave better than that! It's like we have raised a little monster, a wild thing. No, you haven't. It's OK. But somewhere in there, despite your best efforts, the child-raising messages have not got through. Plus the "I want" part of him is stronger than most. There will be good reasons for this. You need help i finding out what they are. In the meantime, normal discipline methods are clearly NOT working, and the more you (and the school) try them, the worse this is going to get. YOU ALL NEED A CHANCE OF TACTIC. First - I would stop punishing him at home, for problems at school. Second - I would want another look at that behaviour plan and ask for a sit-down meeting with the school to formulate a new approach. Aim for logical consequences rather than punishment. Also a very high priority - find out what it is he wants and why he wants it. OBSERVE. The school needs to make observations too. a really effective strategy for us was the Communication Book. This was before schools were regularly using emails to and from the parents, a Book may not be the way to go now, but perhaps emails may be better. But if the school still isn't using email a lot, then bring on The Book. Communication Book is simple. It's any old plain exercise book, with the label on the front and a plastic cover (for some level of preservation - you don't want it falling apart too readily). Give it a bright colour so it looks cheerful (you all will need it) plus is easy to find on a desk cluttered with ripped up worksheets and broken pencils. The aim of the book - you write in it anything of interest tat he has done or how he seems. Your choice. The purposes it for you to use it to communicate with the school. You COULD simply talk to them but it can get tedious and time-consuming. Plus what you say can get lost, you're not the only parent. The Book keeps it there for posterity. The teacher can go back and re-read it. So can you. and it is this re-reading that can help things 'click'. You write in the book. The teacher writes in the book. The book travels in the child's bag between home and school, then back again. NEVER make the Book the child's responsibility in any way. Make sure teachers also understand this. It must not be a focus of the child's attention; plus, the child's level of personal responsibility should never extend to the Book, because it is too important. Children like yours and ours cannot be held responsible for notes to and from school. If the school says to the child, "Make sure this note gets home to Mummy - the note is asking her permission for us to give you ice cream for lunch," then the child has a vested interest in making sure the note reaches home. But if the teacher hands a note to the child and says, "make sure this note gets home to Mummy - it's asking her if she would like to join our lunchtime bridge club," then the child has no vested interest and therefore the note has less chance of success in getting home. Do your utmost to think from your son's point of view. What is happening, from his perspective? It would be really valuable to know what kind of worksheets he is tearing up, and what he has been doing right before he is given those worksheets. If this is happening on a general basis (ie all the time with every worksheet no matter what he is doing at the time) then the problem could be task-changing in general. But lets say it happens with writing practice worksheets when given while he is playing in the sandpit - then the problems could be that his hands hurt when he is trying to hold a pencil (check his hands for over-loose joints, see if his finger joints bend back at all, look to see if his fingernails go pale when he tries to hold a pencil, what kind of grip does he use) or it could be that he finds writing practice a bit confronting especially if he has any dyslexia. Or it could be that he doesn't want to leave the sandpit, he is enjoying some activity there - maybe the feel of the sand, or the look of sand pouring through a funnel, or maybe the way sand takes up other shapes when you force it into a mould. Observe. Watch. Make notes. Because tis information can signpost to a diagnosis. I am concerned that the school isn't doing this. I could be selling them short, but your description seems to indicate to me that t heir main concern is his disruptive behaviour overall, and no thought has yet gone into when this happens and therefore why. There are a number of possible reasons for this, a number of conditions your son could have. he is currently going backwards because nothing is being done to find out why, and therefore with underlying problems persisting, trying to discipline this is having a detrimental effect. I've said this before - it is like punishing the blind child for failing to copy accurately from the blackboard. Your son could well be a bright, loving, wonderful kid with a lot of value for the world. But right now he is angry, frustrated, immature and feeling overwhelmed because he has nowhere to turn, no refuge from what is going on, he doesn't understand and he wants to understand. In the meantime, everyone else has to be made to feel as bad as he does. He is not doing this because he wants to. He is responding this way because he knows no other way to express how frustrated and angry he feels. Somewhere in there is your son. He is worth helping. He deserves a fair go. So do you. Welcome to this site. We are parents like you who have been where you are. Your son's problems could be aggravated by the medications - I don't know. Nobody here can diagnose; even a world-class specialist on this site would not be able to diagnose without having the patient there in front of hi to meet, to talk to, to test. However, we can and do make educated guesses, to give you a range of ideas to consider and ask doctors about. So welcome aboard, keep us posted on how you're all getting on. Marg [/QUOTE]
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