New and looking for advice i guess

[mimismum]

Hi all thanks for looking at my post,
Ok so to start im new here was just looking for advice or experience of others going through things I amshe wouldnt follow
My daughter Is four and has just started reception class (first class im in uk) of school. Withing her first week the teachers were calling me in to say she wouldnt follow rules didnt listen and even destroyed the home corner (after getting in a mood after being asked to tidy up) she runs away at playtime round the yard so teachers need to chase her (however they have stopped chasing now) has told the teacher on two occasions she will hurt them (to my shock this is not something we say at home) And during assembly she is unable to sit still unless she is with a member of staff.
Her school has put her on a daily diary where They fill in her daily behaviour, and I do the same at home. Dont get me wrong she is not like this every single day she does have some good days.
As a child she is very loving kisses and hugs everyone, and she is full of life never stops talking and can be very very sweet. she is the youngest of three she has two older brothers and ok maybe does get her own way alot and has been spoilt (which i am working on and have made progress over last 12 months)
but still the way she behaves is not as other 4year olds do.
If she dosent want to do something she wont naughty step offering incentives or taking things away dont always work. She is full of energy from the moment she opens her eyes till the moment she closes them (which is always late) she never stops is always on the go. and dhes persistant, If she wants something she will ask non stop (and i know people say oh dont give in she will get bored she dosent ever she would ask 1000 times if i let her) If things dont go her way she can rage as we have called in in past where she will hit out and grind her teeth hit scream curse you etc or break down and cry her heart out she can be very emotinol.
I guess my reason for this post is to see how others whos children have maybe acted similar cope and were they diagnosed and what with.
My little one is being observed by education psyc tomorrow so guess its the first step in what maybe a long journey
thanks again

 

[buddy]

Hello and welcome. I am sorry she is struggling so. I think you will find a lot of support here. I did my student teaching in England and loved it there. that was MANY years ago (kids were in sub normal school and sub sub normal schools when I was there...) But most of us here are from USA so we may need to ask you more questions regarding school system. There are some UK folks though! (and several other countries, smile) Oh Malika...... you there???

Yes, she may be spoiled but I highly doubt that is causing this level of distress and inability to cope in school. I would highly suggest you get a complete evaluation from a child development specialist.... someone who is a medical doctor or a highly trained (here we call them neuropsychologist) psychologist who can help to sort through the issues and to see how her brain processes and applies information. They look at ability, achievement, developmental milestones, language development, sensory profiles and behavioral items which helps to sort through possible diagnosis. In addition if you can get baseline measures from speech and language therapy evaluations as well as occupational therapy (not sure if that is the term used there) which looks at fine motor and sensory integration development. Glad to her school is having her observed by ed. psychiatric.

Does she have friends that she does back and forth pretend play with? Does she use creative imaginative play? Are her meltdowns more related to switching between places/actvities/etc??? You say she talks alot, do you feel her langauge is age appropriate? Is she sensitive to textures, a picky eater, fussy about sounds or smells, etc.???

Do her moods switch frequently during the day??

I am sure many here will ask a lot of questions. This helps people who have had similar experiences to connect with you and share ideas. It is not to just be nosy.

A very good book that many of us share a love for is called "the Explosive Child" it is very helpful and especially because as you said, traditional behavior ideas tend not to work with our extra challenging kids, or difficult child's as we say here ( difficult child=gift from god, smile).

Please keep in touch and I will be pulling for this upcoming observation to help you. I actually hope she does not have an "on" day so he can see her struggles! Hang in there, it can be an emotional journey so be sure to come here whenever you need hugs and support! Again, welcome.

 

[mimismum]

Buddy
Thanks for taking the time to reply
First in answer to your questions.
I feel she is a popular member of the class and plays with other children in a creative way, although she does like to play alone too. She always has lots of children run up to her to say goodbye or "see you tomorrow" so seems to mix well. Her melt downs tbh are usually caused by having to do something she dosent want to do at that moment, or not being able to do something she wants. As for when it presents in emotion rather than temper this could be for numerous reasons i guess but mostley if she isnt willing to do as asked or cannot do as she likes, she will argue with you and dosent like to give in even at her age.

In general her health is fine she had no developmental delays her vocabulary is excellent and she communicates well (she has been refered for speech therapy but this is just for sounds of words she dosent pronouch her s words to well they sound very nasel) so not a big deal. She isnt a fussy eater no she tends to eat almost anything if I am honest.

As i said her outbursts are usually when she has to follow a rule or a command or partake in something she isnt wanting to do. and if she is in that mood she will lash out cry run scream almost anything to get her out of having to do it. But she also i hope this dosent sound bad (i know what i mean) knows how to play the game As an example one day she didnt win a raffel prize in school so she stood looking looking into the books (she looked heartbroken) and sobbed to anyone she looked so upset and hard done by untill the teacher felt so sorry for her she let her "borrow" a prize from the box (needless to say i think the teacher realised her mistake and hasnt given in since) but that was an instant cure for her upset.

Yes as you said at least school had asked the edu psychiatric to come in and im sure its early days as its an observation but hope to find out ways to help her

 

[soapbox]

Hi, and welcome...

Hmmm.... if I had known when my kid was 4, what i know now...
Not that yours will be the same case as mine, but.

First - getting help is the only answer.
School ed psychiatric doing "observation"... may or may not produce anything. Hopefully, she sees the issues.
More importantly, there needs to be testing.

There are a raft of possibilities, but I'll only speak to what I know - and others will chime in.

Medical tracking of development only runs to about 2 years old - after that, its just height and weight, usually.
This means that there are critical skills that flag a different set of development issues... and are not screened for.
Among these are motor skills issues. Fine or gross, it often shows up more when the child has to put skills together... not so hard to walk or run, maybe, but to play soccer (your football) takes much more coordination. Self-feeding is easy - making proper use of knife and fork is NOT. Scissors, coloring... The best way to screen for motor skills problems is with an Occupational Therapist (OT)... from there, others would have to do the diagnosis. If you think there are any motor skills issues, google Dr. Amanda Kirby - she's somewhere in Great Britain, and an expert on Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD)/developmental dyspraxia. (although, motor skills issues can also go with other dxes...)

Next, there may be auditory issues... she's already getting help for speech, ask the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) about whether she might have problems with "auditory figure ground". This is an Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) where the child has normal hearing, but cannot process the sounds easily in the presence of background noise - so, either doesn't "listen" (and gets in trouble), OR spends so much mental energy fighting to "listen" that they "burn out".

There could also be executive function issues - the ability to transition from one task to another, delay gratification, there's a whole list... and these can often be the source of behavior issues.

I think someone else recommended "The Explosive Child"... lots of us have made good use of it. It takes a different perspective on challenging kids, and presents an alternative approach to dealing with problems. Doesn't work for EVERY kid, so you might want to grab a library copy first and see if it makes sense, but its generally a good, mind-opening read.

 

[Malika]

Hi mimismum and welcome. I am also from the UK, though I have not lived there for some years now and am out of touch with how things work in terms of psychological/educational services, etc. It is great you are getting some input from an educational psychologist. What kind of school is she in?
I have to say... your daughter really sounds very similar to my son. All the "negative behaviours" are shared, as well as the being able to get on with other kids in school, the extremely affectionate nature and the sweetness. My son is also full of life and never stops talking. As for diagnosis... the obvious diagnosis that is on the table is ADHD, though my son really seems to have the hyperactive component of this and not so much the inattentiveness. In France, as in the UK I believe, formal diagnoses of ADHD are not made before age six or seven. There are actually all sorts of other things (rare) that can cause the same symptoms as ADHD and almost no-one ever tells you about this - thyroid problems, iron deficiency, etc (do some internet research on it - so you should just rule those out too.
In terms of behavioural stuff, you have (unfortunately, it's harder work and much misunderstood ) to parent these children differently. Punishment and consequences don't seem to work, positive reinforcements do. It's a whole big learning curve and it's great that you have got in very early with interventions because the experts agree that early intervention is very important for the future well-being of these children.
Please keep us posted on what happened with the psychologist's evaluation.

 

[keista]

Hello! I just wanted to pop in and add my welcome. Not much to say tonight - very tired, but did want to ask a bit more specifically about her social skills.

She always has lots of children run up to her to say goodbye or "see you tomorrow"

When kids do this, does she respond appropriately? My son never did. But even today, kids are still drawn to him and say "hi" or whatever when they see him. He's STILL working on responding appropriately. I always thought he was just aloof or distracted. Well, in a way he is, but by his nature, he's also not concerned with such social pleasantries. Even when he notices someone, he'll point them out to me, but not feel the need to say anything to them. Took me a while to catch on to this 'anomaly'. I figured he was fine because he seemed so popular. Nope, just his natural charm. For son, the problem was Asperger's

Welcome again. Stick around you've found a great place to help begin your journey!

 

[Liahona]

Sounds like she is having problems transitioning between what she wants and thinks and what the adults want her to do. Some things we do are: warn before hand that the transition is coming, a picture schedule so she can see what is going to happen, lots of positives when she starts to do the transition, a timer (so I'm not the bad guy). Sorry its late and my head isn't wanting to work right now. The explosive child book has some good suggestions. I know my kids are mostly Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) but I think these would work for any kid having transition problems.

Welcome to the board!