Oldest Adult ODD starting problems

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by ihavehadit, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. ihavehadit

    ihavehadit Fed Up - What to do now

    :clubbing:I have had about all I can take of our oldest. We have two adult kids.
    The Oldest in early twentys: Odd, Boarder Line Personalty Disorder, Depression, Insonmia, there is more. I just can't think right now.
    The youngest earlier twentys: ADHD

    Our oldest was with me most of the day, getting things done. I told the adult child to go home and rest, then get things done. The problem is this, she lives not by herself, but with almost 70 yr old GP. She has her own little apartment.
    She can't seams to clean her own place. She was supposed to be helping her GM with the house work. But instead she starts fights. She won't listen, won't do and does nothing but run around. She is disable (was hit by car) so no income is coming in. So between GP and Use we support her in all means. We have stop putting gas in car, but that has not stop here. She baggies friends for money and so forth.

    I not felt good this evening, so I was in bed early. But at 1:30am we got a call. The oldest, started a fight with her 70 year old GP. She almost pushed her GM down, that has RA. She thraton the girlfriend. I end up getting up, throwing clothes on, going out in the cold and drive the 6 miles to my parent house. In the while I am doing that, I seen our D car coming toward me just flying high. I put the car sideway in the road to block her and slow her down. (no she did not like it, but oh well) We had it out on the road just before 2am, over what she did and was doing. She drove on and turn off cell phone (that is a no no in this family, and it is in the means of losing the phone. So if it is not on by noon today, it will be turned off and taken from her) I went on and check on my parents. Basically, her medications are not working, her girlfriend medications are not working, and my babysister (also in twentys) medications are not working. So they all clashed tonight over a trash can that belong to our daughter. That is what all it was about.

    She does not want to listen, she is in her twentys she don't have to. But yet she want everyone to kiss her back side. If we don't do what she want us to do, she throws these fits of hers and uproot the family for a few days, until I catch her sitting still and let her know what will be happening. We have gave her a place to live, feed her and so forth. We just had her car in the shop and paid for the work. But now it is time to take all that away from her and let her see what it will be like, not having a family that cares and loves her.

    You know what, we always thought we would have trouble out of the youngest. But he is wonderful, we have no problems and he works and pay for his own things. He would move out of here, if he made enough money to live on his own. But he has a good head, and knows he can't live alone on the money he makes. He does help us, when we ask him to.

    All I ever wanted, was a wonderful family, peace and quite. But I can't seam to ever have that around here. Now all I want is sleep and I can't get that. I am wide awake now. :angry-very:

    What would you do?
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I highly recommend posting on Parent Emeritus. All of the parents there are dealing with grown kids who are still problematic and they have fantastic advice. I am really sorry you are going through this with both of your young adult girls. There does come a time when one has to say, "Enough! I matter too!"

    I think I can tell you in advance that most who post on Parent Emeritus, including me, would tell you that you need to detach from your daughters--both of them--and stop giving them money. If your one daughter is disabled she is getting SSI and that's some money and she should be able to try to get a job for people with disabilities. There are organizations that place disabled adults in jobs that they can do. If she can drive and party hard, she doesn't seem maybe totally unable to function. As for GM, that is really sad that the adult girls are taking advantage of her, but she is making the choice to allow it. When she was pushed, she should have called the police and told your daughter to pack her bags, even if that meant she'd have to spend a few nights in a homeless shelter (or more than a few nights). NOBODY should treat her GM that way and in my opinion she shouldn't be giving her a place to stay, whatever her situation. There is really nothing YOU can do to make GM throw them out or to change your daughters. They are too old. But you can cut off the money while they are behaving so irresponsibly (I personally wouldn't give money regularly to any child that age unless he was truly totally doing the best he could and had a good attitude). It doesn't sound like they are trying--sounds like they are still stuck in the younger party years and they won't grow up if they aren't forced to do it. Too bad GM can't lay down the law--any violence and they are gone. If daughters use drugs, they are gone. If daughters don't help, they are gone. If daughters dont take their medications WITHOUT also drinking or using recreation drugs, they are gone. She is letting them abuse her, and making you be her rescuer. As for not having to listen to you because of their age, when they are both 100% independent of you and your money and never call you to bail them out of bad situations, then they can do whatever they want. Not until then. JMO--again, I'd post on Parent Emeritus. They will teach you Detachment 101 :) Any substance abuse involved here?
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2009
  3. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    MWM is right. Grandparents should have called 911 and booted her out. Disabled or not, she cannot mistreat people and get away with it. She's an adult and it's high time to treat her that way and stop enabling her.

    Folks on the Parent Emeritus board can help you further.

    Good luck!
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    She STILL needs to be booted out. Even disabled, she can get help from Social Services. Your parent does NOT need to deal with this. If I were you I would cancel the phone immediately, and any other services you pay for. If the car is owned by you (titled in your name), take the keys. Then put a steering wheel lock on it just in case she keeps a set. IF she takes the car with-o permission - report it stolen.

    She is taking advantage of you and everyone else. You CAN stop it, you just have to decide that you want to.

    You CANNOT change her behavior. All you can do is change yours. She KNOWS what is expected, I am sure. You don't have to give her warnings about what you will do - she has probably had a LOT of those. Just go ahead and do them.

    But whatever you do, please don't put your car across teh road like that again. It is very dangerous. What if she was changing the radio station and not looking, or on the phone, or whatever. What if she was just so mad that she chose to hit you? You also ran the risk of being hit by oncoming traffic in both directions. And drunk/stoned drivers are out every single night.

    I strongly feel that you need to stop supporting her. She isn't doing her share, and continueing to take care of her like that just infantilizes her. She will rise to the level she wants to be at if she has to. But right now, why bother?
  5. ihavehadit

    ihavehadit Fed Up - What to do now

    HI Everyone,
    First off, to all: Our daughter is disable, she is not allowed to work and she has tried to work for more then a year, but with that she almost lost her leg for the second time.
    But SSI is still fighting her and has been since 2002. There is another hearing in two months. So no she has no income, money coming in to her. So, would you let your daughter go hungry, maybe stink because she can't afford her deodorant and so forth. I am sorry, I can't believe you would allowed that to happen. Now for the car, it is her car. We do pay the insurance and all repairs. We went in the route before of not paying, having tags pulled and all. But then this kept me busy on the road. (We do live in the country, we are miles from Dr's and hospitals.) Well when she is not driving her car, I have to drive her 50 miles to her therapist and Physic Dr. That she goes to every week to every other week. Then I have to drive her to her bone Dr and other dr's that is not close by, and any where else she has to go. IT is cheaper on my car and easier on myself to pay her insurance and let her go on her way. (Oh yea, I am also my parents ride at most times.)
    Yes, she drives us nuts, crazy and so forth. But sorry, I was raised to take care of our own, no matter what. That means you don't put your child on the street, with no means of support, you don't let your child strive to death, you don't turn your back on the helpless hoping harm comes to them. You take care of yours, it is a life long commitment.
    But you can ask for ideas and help. But you would think, that others would understand and give you ideas of what you can do. But it surprised me to see a few thinks you should give up on your child, just because they are adults.
    If that was so, I would not be where I am. My parents would not help us with food, and place to live for 3 months, and milk for our children, in our younger years. We did learn from that and for a long time now, we had not had to ask for help and now we help others.

    Now for calling the police for what happen last night. Around here, the police would not do a thing. All they would do is, tell the daughter to go to her basement apartment and stay there. That is all they would do. We know this, we have call on her before. Also, my daughter was blocked on a town street, just a few blocks from the police. The girl that blocked her, also blocked our daughter in the car and then reached in and beat our daughter. The police was called and all they did was fine that girl and to this day it has gone on two years now, still have problems with her. But they said there is nothing they can do, unless she said to the daughter she was going to kill her. So calling the police over a argument, they wont do anything.

    Now I would not had put my (parents car, mine is broke down) across the road if I was in a town, on a main road or any place like that. We were on a back road, against the river bank. I knew she be watching the road. Because it is cover with Deers mostly at night. Also I knew her car, she is the only one that goes through here with that type of car. Also she just left GP house, she has to go passed our place to get where she is going. So I did not put anyone in danger for what I did.

    Well, anyway: Text messaging was taken off her phone at noon today. Her therapist was notified of what happen and also that message will end up in her Dr. hands come Monday. Also, she was informed the car insurance was not paid and will not be paid until she admits to what she did wrong and apologize to everyone. Also she was to clean her GP house top and bottom. All this has to be done before Monday. If not her tags will be pulled by the state by Wed. for no insurance. Also she was informed that if she don't start giving respect to her GP and Parents. She will be finding a way to get food, Items needed to live, medications and anything else that needs money to get. That the money tree has fall down. Not only that her phone was taken from her today until all this is done by Monday. If not she won't get it back, it will be put on suspension until she listen to her Elders, as she was taught to do.
    She was also reminded that come Tuesday, she will be stuck in that house. She won't be able to leave or try to. So she just better start getting use to the rules. She will not be allowed to drive for three weeks. She won't even be able take a bath with out help, or cook her own meals. But right now she is stuck in a problem, she will suffer with out that help, unless she listen and do as is told to do. (she goes in to major surgery Wed Morning early. With what is being done, if she don't listen and stay laying down and so forth. Could cause her to bleed to death, even in her sleep. So she has to listen or die)
    Yes, this is what the dr has told her and I and he did tell her it could kill her if she did not listen to his words.

    She did calm down some this evening, after she was informed of everything of how it will be. But she only has two days to get the work done and apologize to everyone.
    Oh yea, also a new rule. When money is spent on her, she is to pay it back with work around our house. She will only have 24 hours to pay us back. So, also this weekend, she is
    to come to my house and clean the ferrets room from top to bottom and sweep my kitchen and mop it. That will be paying us back the 40 bucks for front end alignment, that we did yesterday.
    So lets see if she makes it or not. She is not to have anything payed for until she does the work to earn the money for that car part, or her medications, anything. We feel, she can do what I told her to do, with
    out problems. She can take her time and prop up her leg and all.

    Now, I asked for a friend that has same problems. I am sorry, I was told that I should give up on my child even if she is an adult. (oh yea, not only she has steel & screws in her body, her memory is not all here. She has no short memory hardly. She lost that part of her brain when she was almost killed 7 years ago)

    Oh well, I am going to bed
    Have a good night
  6. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Hi Hadit - I'm sorry you're feeling unsupported. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing your daughter had an injury that has affected her physically and emotionally - I think that most certainly would alter the advice you'll receive. If you could do a signature (here are the instructions), it will help us recall specifics about your situation. ;)

    Generally speaking, detachment is a philosophy a lot of us are working on with our older kids/adults. Detachment is *not* giving up on our kids, but allowing them to make the choices they will make and allowing them to suffer the consequences, without rescuing them. It can be ugly. This is just my opinion, and my behaviorally challenging kid will be 18 in a few weeks, so I'm just entering this new phase of parenting... but even when you have a child who does have a severe mental illness, if they are noncompliant with treatment and decent life choices, we as parents *have* to separate ourselves a bit from their lives or we risk our own well-being in continually being on that up and down rollercoaster.

    A couple of questions, if you don't mind - not being nosy but trying to get a feel for where your family is at right now and what the goals for your daughter are. ;) Does your daughter need supervision or can she live independently? Is she able to take medications independently, cook safely, clean, etc? Does she receive any supportive services through the state in terms of employment or activities during the day? Where do you see your daughter living in 5 years, 10 years, after your death?

    I think the 1:30 a.m. scene with the grandparents is a trigger for a lot of us who have dealt with volent kids. In my book, safety first. The grandparents have the absolute right to be safe (and asleep if they so choose) at 1:30 in the morning in their own home. Physical violence is unacceptable, period, regardless of degree of disability.

    "She does not want to listen, she is in her twentys she don't have to. But yet she want everyone to kiss her back side. If we don't do what she want us to do, she throws these fits of hers and uproot the family for a few days, until I catch her sitting still and let her know what will be happening. We have gave her a place to live, feed her and so forth. We just had her car in the shop and paid for the work. But now it is time to take all that away from her and let her see what it will be like, not having a family that cares and loves her. "

    You're actually on the right track here, in my little ole' opinion. ;) It's called "do to get". It sounds like in her case compliance with basic rules needs to be the "do" in order for her to get the good stuff (phone, car, etc.). Again, it's incredibly difficult when you've got a kid who thinks he/she is an adult and can make their own choices, but then you're stuck dealing with her "fits" when she doesn't get her way. Normally, I would absolutely agree with the idea of telling her to get on with her life, in *her* home (not subsidized by you), but with the memory issues and what sounds like ongoing medical concerns, I understand you cannot do that.

    I'll think on this some - have to get to work right now ;) - but I really wanted to assure you that we never ever advocate "giving up" on a child. I think most of us do believe in logical consequences and, with our older kids, we also have to recognize that as parents we cannot be the only resource our kids have (though as the mother of another adult kiddo with- a severe physical disability, I totally relate to "taking care of our own" and am not as good about utilizing outside resources for him as I should be).

    Anyway - I hope you'll stick around. At the very least, we can suport you and encourage you as you travel this road with your daughter!
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I have a son on the autism spectrum. While it isn't as serious as the disabilities that your daughter has (loss of short term memory etc.) I know I can't live forever. Because of that, he WILL some day be without us so we are looking into alternative living arrangements for him, such as an apartment with a roommate and somebody who checks in on him every day. As much as we wish we could be there for our disabled k ids forever, there comes a time when we can't. I'm a little puzzled as to why your daughter can't get SSI. That really reeks. She should be able to get SSI and other services as well including some sort of comfortable living arrangements so that GP and GM don't have to watch her. in my opinion they are too old to have to do this--and the day will come when they CAN'T. Like some disabled adults, she may need some caregiving all of her life, but it can't come from us because we aren't going to be around as long as they are and then the loss, if we are their only means of help, will be far worse for them and also in my opinion terrify them. I'm an older parent--55--so we are already thinking of what challenges we have in planning the rest of our son's life. One thing we have done is enlisted a younger couple who is very dear to us and loves our son--they will be his guardian, if he needs one, when we are no longer here. Certainly, nobody here meant for you to turn your back on a young lady who can't take care of herself. However, at the same time, she is hard to care for and in my opinion GM and GP shouldn't have to do it and there has to be resources to help your entire family. I live in a small town myself and know that big cities have more resources, however, small towns, like ours, are also safer for our kids. Everyone knows my son and looks out for him--so it's a mixed bag. And there IS assisted living and, unlike in some cities, it is wonderful and in a very safe place. They also have a sheltered workshop for disabled adults here. You may want to call social services and ask if they can help you at all. I'm sorry I was so hard on you at first. I was thinking of a child like my own daughter who abused drugs. That's different. Your daughter needs supervision, but you will wear yourself out--and GM and GP--if you can't get help.
  8. ihavehadit

    ihavehadit Fed Up - What to do now

    Hi Everyone,

    To Answer slsh :

    Does your daughter need supervision or can she live independently?

    daughter, can live on her own to a point. But we would still have to check on her each day, to make sure she did turn off the stove or oven, blow out candles and so forth. Also we would still have to make sure she remember to take her medications at the right time. So she can live on her own at a point, but yet she still need a eye on her to a point, is why my parents fixed the full basement into apartment. Everything she needs is down there, except for a bathroom. (concert floors before they bought the house, can't seam we can get a bathroom put in.) So she still have to go upstairs to the bathroom. So the answer is she can live independently, but with some supervision most to make sure she turns off things and take medications on time.

    Is she able to take medications independently?

    She can take medications, we just have to call her on the time it needs to be taken, or her GP yell down to her and let her know it is time to take. For a while we tried the Note system. Were we place a note on doors, around her place to remind her. But after they were up for a while, it was like a picture on the wall, that you don't look at all the time.

    Is she able to cook?

    She is a wonderful cook. But we are still teaching and also have to explain what goes into a dish, and repeat all the time. But she also cooks like we Italians do, with out a recipe, just throw a dish together and call it your own. But she cooks simple foods, for one person. But we still have to call and remind her to look at the stove to turn it off. There is times she takes the food from the pan with oil and forget to turn off the fire. I retrained her a lot of things and helped her put them back into long term memory. We still work on that at times. There is one thing I have her doing is carry a notebook or leave it in kitchen on table. What that is for is to write down what she just used and throw away the package. It helps with when she needs to go to the store. boy, does it help so much. With reminders and going over the same thing, over and over, she is able to cook her own meals. For a while at the beginning we made her call us before she started to cook. She told us what she was cooking. From there, we figure how long it took to cook, what she was cooking. Then one of us would call her and asked her to go back to the stove and check all knobs and turn off the ones that are on. Now with the reminders and going over the same thing, over and over, she does very well. But we still have to remind her at times to check the stove or oven. So when her GP smell her cooking something, they will wait a while and yell down at her to see what she cooked. They then ask if she turned off the stove. This way, she feels she is doing more on her own. Some times mom will ask if there is any left overs, she would like some. LOL

    Is she able to clean

    Yes, she is able to clean. But has to stop and rest every so often. If she is on her leg to much or bending over to much, it cause her a lot of pain and swelling. So it takes her some time to clean. Also, I write up a list each week and post it on the fridge, so she can over each day, do what is needed and mark it off. Then she has a list upstairs as well, it sits on the bar. Mom writes it up, and she does that list. That list is for her rent to be paid. She pays no rent to live there, but she has to help her GM around the house. (Dusting, sweeping, Mopping, taking out trash and so forth) So yes, she can clean, she just have to take her time at it.


    Sorry, I don't know what you where asking here. If you explain more, I will answer you.

    Does she receive any supportive services through the state in terms of employment or activities during the day?

    In this state she can't receive any type of supportive services as in activities, because she is not receiving SSI or SS. She is still fighting for it, as someone has said, "they don't understand why she has not received SSI or SS". she is still fighting for it, because she was at a time still going to school. Then when she tried to work, that was another reason they denied her. (school as in college, you can't tell your kid she can't go. You give them all reason she can. Until she prove to herself she is not able to do it)
    Also, they state because she has a rod is no reason she can't work. But then they did not look at her other problems. So that is when we got a lawyer and now they are on our side. Her next hearing is in April.

    For employment,

    Her dr's won't allow her to work. She can't work that requires her to stand long. So she did find her a wonderful job with wonderful pay with sitting down, but that caused her so much problems with her legs that put her in the hospital over and over. Her leg would swell 3 times it size with in 1 hour. Once they called a ambulance to transport her to the hospital, she could not stand or walk. Also with the memory problems keeps her from working.
    It caused her so much problems as well. She could not remember what she was told to do, or what she needed to do. Also she forget things, when people called and so on. So the Dr's said no more working.

    Help from DHR:

    I was able to get her help with medical bills and food stamps. She does get food stamps and a Medicaid disable Card from the DHHR . It pays for all Dr visit and Hospital care, it pays for most medications. But we still have to pay the difference of the cost of the medications. That is all she is able to receive from the state help.

    Where do you see your daughter living in 5 years, 10 years, after your death?

    I am praying she find a wonderful man, that will take care of her and support her. That is where I see my daughter. When this happens, she will live with him in their own place. Then that will release us from having to worry and care for her each day so much. Also, she would love to have a baby. So we pray, she will have a wonderful man with the support she will need and get her wish. Also, if need to be her brother would help her out to a point, as we do. He already stated that. He loves her dearly and has a heart of gold. He has been there ever min, since she was able to come home 7 months after she was hit by the car. We have the support behind us, if need to call on them.

    To MidwestMom:

    Thank you for the apology!
    I do know of the alternative living arrangements and assisted living. We have a niece that will be put in one arrangement when her mother pass away. But they live 100 miles from us, in a bigger city that has the resources to do that. Here were we are is very small. The population was 406 at the 2000 census. It is back in the country, there are cows on two sides of us, pigs just 1/4 mile up the road. donkies, sheep, Horse farm just about a 1/4 mile down the road. I am laughing at this, I never thought of how many farms, or different animals that we live around. There are also goats close by and lots and lots of chickens. So yeap, we live in the country around lots of farms.
    daughter and GP only live around 6 miles up the road from us. I am there every day, checking on things and doing things I need to do. We place our daughter there, to help me out and also help my mother. I don't have to run around with my head cut off trying to get things done each day. It is all in one place. Also when my mother needs help, daughter can help her at a point. (like when I was out of town with my dad. My mother fall in the hallway. We where lucky daughter was there at the time, she was able to call for help and get help there ASAP. (even though help was our son.) ) They same if something goes wrong with daughter, the parents can call me.
    So with her being there, it helps everyone. Most the time the GP don't have a problem out of daughter. But my BS moved back in our parents house 6 months ago and started problems between them with her lies and laziness. We only have 4 weeks left for her to move out ( BS also in early 20's, married with a 5 year child).

    So anyway, this is a way to get her on her own as much as we can. We have listen to the DR's and done what they said to do. With the notes, reminders, putting her on her own as much as we can, with out dangering her life. We asked the dr's if what we were doing was ok, they were all for it. It gives her, her own place to take care of. But yet with some support behind her close by. She has her own outside door to go out and come in. Also she has stairs to upstairs to run to bathroom or go upstairs. But the Upstairs door has a lock on her side to lock the door when she wants to.
    So yes, we are working on her being on her own. But it is at a slow pace.

    Now for one question no one asked:

    Anything our daughter learned from birth up to 15 min before she was hit by the car, she remembers. Anything after that point gives her problems. So she was hit by a car (was on bike) after she started learning to drive. Also she was almost out of high school when it happened. She knew how to take care of herself. But she forgot to brush teeth, brush hair, put on deodorant, and so on. She even at times forgot to put on her bra. So that is when we started the note system. After she returned home 7 months later, I did what the dr's said to do. There were a note on her bedroom door, for grab your home work and books to take back to school, put on bra before you leave for school, and so forth. There was a not going down the hallway, telling her what she had to do after school, like home work, cleaning room and so forth. In the bathroom, there were two notes (of the same thing) one on the back of the door, so she see it as she got out of the shower and the other one she see on Mirror if the door is open already. To tell her to brash hair, clean teeth, and so forth. It worked out for a long time, and a lot of it after reading and doing every day put it back into the long term memory. So it did work, and we still work at that to get more information back there to stay.
    Ok, for her driving: She remember how to get to places we always went to. For her to go to new places, I would drive her the first few times. Then I have her to get behind the driving seat and she drives herself with me in the car a few times or so. Also she has the cell phone to call home when needs to (or call me on cell). This has worked, just a few times she called crying and is lost. I then would ask where she was going. I asked her to tell me what she can remember before she got to where she was. Then I would call the city police or county police of the area she is to be in. I explain what is going on and they would send cars out looking for her. With that happening, she is to turn on em. lights, lock the doors and stay on the phone with me. When the police finds her, they would not walk up to her until they called me back and tell me they think they have her. Then I would ask our daughter if a City or county police sitting behind her. If so, I tell them to go right ahead and walk up to the car, that it should be her. It always was her, they would get her turned around. Explain to her where she is, and how to get back home or to where she is going. Then they explain to me the same thing. I then check with her ever so min, to make sure she is ok, and in the right place. Most the time she does good. That has only happen maybe 3 times, In the last 6 years.

    Well, now I think I answer all the question. Also I did a signature line (hope it works). So I think I am finish here for now, since I need to run and get the over the counter medications she needs before surgery Wed. (she has to do a complete system cleaning tomorrow, so she don't have anything left in her. As we say.) She will be on complete liquid diet tomorrow, no solid food what so ever and I have to get her a over the counter liquid laxative that the dr wants her to take all day tomorrow. So she will be ready for the major surgery Wed. (boy isn't she going to have fun, running up stairs to the bathroom all day tomorrow.)

    Well, time to clean up and enjoy the sunny day, cold but sunny.
    Have a Wonderful Day