Oldest kids issue

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Rotsne, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    Some have asked me why I came here.

    The main reason was the boarding school issue, but here is the full story that lead up to the imprisonment we did avoid.

    Many years ago my wife became ill. She was born with a non-functioning
    Thyroid and take medication for it every day. The amount of medication are adjusted by a blood sample every 3 month.

    After our second child was born, she started to suffer from a low number of white cells in her blood. I think that the number reached 3 before we discovered it the first time. When it is so low, she sometimes suddenly began to sleep in the middle of the day. She was generally tired.

    But we got it adjusted and she did well for some years. However 5 years ago she suddenly became more and more sad, but because we live in a smaller city there is some distance (10 kilometers) to the nearest hospital and we are very root in our community, so we only leave our cities if it is very bad. People in towns 5 kilometers away are regarded as strangers and we dont have very much to do with them. As odd as it sounds it is normal here.

    But it became worse and when she finally was committed both the medication for the non-functioning Thyroid and medication for the lack of white cells had to be increased dramatically. It was too late because she had a brain damage which caused a severe depression. She is still very heavily medicated (225 mg efexor every day), but efter a year she got a job with subsidy.

    Her illness did effect our daughter when performed poorly in the classes and redraw from the social environment. When it was noticed we got a visit from the DSS because they were concerned if we had converted away from Christianity which often result in isolation in our society. Being briefed about the problem was they gave us a family coach. It was very clear that the reason our daughter was ill was because she wanted to remain home and look after her mother.

    My daughter did attend the core house which are a play and talk group for children of mentally ill parents and she somewhat improved. She was truant for a while which is not a big deal here but now she can keep in the classes. She only have a problem doing things outside the normal curriculum like shows, dances, music and the family coach have been able to make a deal with the school so they dont push her.

    Another issue is that she freezes in exam situation and that was were the doping issue came up as the doctor suggested to dope her with beta blockers (a heart medicine) so her heart would not beat as fast during the exams, which should result in better grades. We declined the offer and she got good grade ranging between B and D which is totally accepted in our family because we are from the working class and higher education here is a question of being able to afford housing rather than grades.

    The school did however feel she could do better if she was removed from her comfort zone and sentenced to a year in a continuation school (link) with the criminal kids.

    Thats when I came here because she hasn't broken the law. She does her chores, she is not interested in boys, she doesn't hang out with the youth, she goes home after school every day and read books, use the computer, watch TV and even start some of the cooking up so I can take over when I return from work.

    What possible benefit could she have from being placed in a boarding school in another city, maybe even to an extreme in another part of our country?

    Lately they have given up forcing us to send her there because she - with a little help - began to party. We are new in this area and she got too much last night and have a major hangover right now. It is however a little price to pay if you compare it to being sent away for a year from all your family.

    It has been some tough years.​
  2. Abbey

    Abbey Spork Queen


    I can understand your daughter's concern about leaving her mother. I wouldn't want to leave either. Staying out all night partying? Well, that's another story. Was it an isolated incident? I don't think there are too many of us that didn't do that at that age. (Peeking around sheepishly) I wouldn't have wanted to be sent away for that.

    What other behaviors does your daughter exhibit that would warrant a placement out of home?

  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi. Hmmmmmm, well, I think it's a little hard for some of us to relate because our countries are just so different. If you lived here, I would say that this was a silly reason to send a child away. She sounds like a good kid. Has she ever had any type of intensive evaluating other than this group counseling? I would also have said no to drugs for grades. Some kids do it in college, but...most of our kids here on this site won't go to college, so it's moot. If they use stimulants in college, well, they normally would get them illegally and not go to a doctor. I've never heard of using heart medication for testing--to me that would slow down your thinking. I took Inderol once because I have high anxiety (I think I've taken half the psychiatric medications, and it is used for anxiety). I could barely think so I quit taking it. It wouldn't have helped me take tests better. Are you allowed to pick the type of doctors you want your child to see? I don't think most of us are acquainted with your health care system. Do you have NeuroPsychs there? Also, what is a coach? Is that like our Child Protective Services? Did you request them to come out or did they do it on their own? Can they force you to send your child away or is it up to you? From what you've said, there is no way I'd do it--your daughter sounds really nice, just concerned about her mom--which is normal. A lot of kids have trouble testing, even very bright children...if you tell us more, we will do our best to try to help.
  4. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    About beta blockers and exams: I have here an translated link from the associations of phamarcies in Denmark (link). As you can read, they vote yes for doping at an exam. It is not done under the table but accepted over all even among the authorities.

    I believe that it is a bad idea. If they get a well-paid job and have to meet customers presenting a huge project and they suffer, what then? I meet both the management and suppliers several times every month and we are talking a lot of money and sometimes high risk project. I have seen several on illegal medication due to stress on their jobs. It can not be a very happy life to live. I have always told my children that they should do something in life that they like and right now they are both thinking of working in the local supermarket. It is not very well-paid, but if they like it, I am happy with their choices.

    The coach is a trained pedagogue who have taken additional exams so she can function as a therapist, but they are not allowed to call themselves other than coach. They are in the frontline visiting the families up to 2 times per week if necessary. They have a backup system in the DSS and communicate with the school. They interview both parents and children separate and together. In the school they have a psychologist if the problem demands treatment and she can contact both hospitals and the DSS if the child needs to be removed by force.

    If they feel like it they can force a family to send the child to a continuation school. It would normally be the case if the alternative is juvenile hall. A girl a couple of towns away did make bomb threats against the school. She was interviewed by the police and the DSS did function as judge. She ended up in a continuation school after some months and because she was only 14 it can not go on her record. Another 14 year old child stabbed a man to death. He was also not punished but placed in a closed Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for half a year before moving on to a continuation school. The boy had waited for almost a year for the doctors to find the right medication and I believe that they found the right medication rather quickly afterwards so he imposed no danger to the society.

    However when they turn 15 they go before adult court. A boy just turned 15 jumped on the head of a man until it broke and dragged the body across the street so he could take photos of the victim. He got 7 years in jail and would properly be released after 4 year. Here is a link to an article before the second trial (link). It was his third assult but they could not arrest him before because he as that point was only 14.

    I dont know if they would have been succesful in ordering us to send her to the boarding school, but I know that I was ready taking second mortage on the house to appeal the decision all the way, which could have taken years and meant that I would have won anyhow.
  5. Rotsne

    Rotsne Banned

    Well. Her being drunk was the first time but it would not be the last time. I have a link to an article automatically translated to English about the students on the senior year in High School and their "Little-Friday" (link).

    It maybe be hard to understand but the fact that she is out and partying have meant that they authorites have redrawn their request for her to go to a boarding school because it was her isolation which was their biggest concern. Now where she is enjoying life as all the other normal teens, it seems that the work for the authorities has been done. We have just had a meeting with the coach where we agreed to reduce the number of visits to only one per every second month.

    Regarding my wife we tried to increase the number of work hours to 25 per week but it became too much and she is now back working 20 hours per week.

    2009 seems to be somewhat more positive than 2008 has been.
  6. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I don't know if it is the language barrier or you really don't understand, but calling a boarding school the "imprisonment we did avoid" is really offensive and recommended mediation a "doping issue" is not the best way to put it, either. My daughter went to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for some very good reasons -- she was lying, stealing, cutting school, being violent, staying out all night. I do believe her Residential Treatment Center (RTC) helped her. It was not locking her up, it was the only way to save her from herself. She needed to discover she was valued by me and by the community. She needed to know that she had to abide by the rules of society no matter how much she resented those rules (then she could pick and choose which rules to break but first she had to learn how to follow them). She needed to learn how to make friends. As much I had tried, she was not learning these things at home. For her, Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was literally a lifesaver, as it is for many of the kids that have gone.

    As to medication, I agree that taking heart medication to help with exams is extreme and not something I would willingly do. My daughter did not do well on medication, so it was not an option for her. Many kids here can't function without using medication.

    You daughter certainly did not belong in a boarding school given the facts you stated. That your country is so quick to recommend one is a sad statement on the Danish attitude -- a child steps out of the norm and let's lock them away. So, I can see your attitude. However, in America boarding schools, especially those of a therapeutic nature, are usually the last line of defense, not the first. Most American parents who send their kids have done everything in their power to help their children at home. Most of us research very carefully where to send our kids. There is no way my daughter would have gone to one of those out of country or even in Utah -- I did not send her as a punitive measure. The Residential Treatment Center (RTC) she went was highly regarded. I flew there 8 times before I agreed this was the spot for her. I talked to parents whose children were there, to parents who had removed their children (usually for financial reasons), to the children themselves both there and gone. Yes, her school was in a remote area to prevent kids running away but it was not an imprisonment.

    I would most respectfully suggest you keep your threads to problems in your home. Not your opinions about RTCs or medicating. When responding, think about whether you are truly trying to help or just being negative about ODD, RTCs, etc. You've hurt many of us with your comments. You've had several of us furious with your comments. Even so, most of us have tried to respect you and even to factor in the cultural and language differences. So, please try to respect us and keep your opinions about RTCs and medications to yourself. They don't help any of us and cause a lot of unnecessary pain. Have no fear, we're pretty quick to tell parents when an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is needed and when it is not. We have several parents very knowledgeable about medications and they're quick to jump in when they feel the wrong medications are being given or even if a child is just being medicated for the parents' convenience.

    Do give us support, advice when you know of something that has been successful in Europe whether medications, therapy or what have you. Do start a thread when you are having problems or just want comfort. We will be there for you.

    You have gone through a very trying time with your wife and I'm sorry. I'm glad she's doing better. I don't blame your daughter for wanting to be with her mother when she was ill. I don't blame her becoming depressed and acting out when the one illness was helped and another one started. Kids do sense and feel and the suggestion that she be sent to any type of boarding school because of her behavior is just ridiculous in my opinion. Your daughter needed help at home, comfort and love, not being sent away where she would just worry about her mother even more.

    As to being sent to a continuation school, I don't quite understand why she was sent there. Here, that is considered a pretty drastic measure and you would have to cut a LOT of school with many warnings and consequences before a continuation school was considered. They are pretty much for kids on the edge of dropping out of high school, many of whom are criminals. Most of us would fight tooth and nail not to let our kids go to a continuation school -- an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) would be preferable to that alternative.

    I hope your daughter finds her path. She really does sound like a pretty good kid who has had to deal with some major problems at home. When you add being an outsider in school and anxiety issues in general into the mix, I'd say you were lucky she hasn't acted out more and much more strongly.
  7. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    I guess things make sense now, on the articles that you are posting, regarding your area of the world. But, the problems that you are experiencing are so vastly different from the world we are in, here in the states.

    Before putting a child in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), here, the child and the parents have gone through multiple evaluations, multiple treatments and so on. It is usually the last possible thing that parents resort to. The state rarely(if ever) steps in and forces a child into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). This would have happened 30 or 40 years ago in the US, but certainly things have changed.

    It appears your culture is very, very different and foreign to us, to the point that we are appalled at the reaction to things in your society (like the drinking and partying at a young age being acceptable and the fact that the authorities feel it necessary to send a child to a residential program for poor grades). I'm sorry that you have gone through all of that. This is certainly not our way, in the free world.

    Thank for explaining things.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I guess I can't relate to wanting the kids to all be alike. Here we are so very different. Some kids just don't like to party. I hated parties and never went. I don't see why it is considered a bad thing, let alone a reason to send a child out of the home. Same with drinking. Here it is seen as a bad thing, not a good thing--as minors the teens aren't supposed to drink--it's illegal.
    And we see psychiatric problems as physical disorders. Medication can often make somebody able to function who otherwise could not--I am a person like that. It is not seen as a bad thing if a child is helped by medication. However, few parents would put children on medication just to get them better grades.
    So, in a way, our cultures are complete opposites!
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm wondering if the powers to be in his country are noticing some depression, anxiety, and some withdrawal from typical social behaviors in his daughter and instead of seeing it as a result of her concern for her mother, they are just looking at it like "remove the child from home" and maybe they have no other places for kids removed from home- so no matter what the reason a kid needs additional supports, behavior adjustments, therapuetic inverventions, etc- they all go to the same place.

    I don't know anything about the country, laws or culture there, so I'm just speculating- mybe Rotsne can clarify.

    But, I did have a time where I thought DSS was going to remove difficult child because he'd broken the law- even though I didn't condone it, I don't break the law, I'm a fit parent, etc. And most of us here have felt less than confident about some legal authorites making decisions for our kids sometimes, and then, what about our frustration over the lack of appropraite Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s, programs, etc., available to get our kids help. So, if that were taken a few steps further- say it was 50 years ago here in the US- maybe that is what it is like over there?????

    If so, I can certainly understand Rotsne being frustrated and feeling negative- but I agree, Rotsne, please try to remember that those of us here are here to be positive supports for each other and while raising our kids puts us in similar situations in some ways, there isn't a "catch-all" answer that will benefit every child or be a detriment to every child (unless it truly was an abusive or neglectful placement).
  10. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?


    Thank you for posting this. I beleived cultural differences were probably a big part of why I wasn't understanding the big picture, but I took your word that was the reason. Now I have a better understanding.

    I hope no one here has offended you because of the differences in our cultures. I truly enjoy learning about other countries and ways of life, even if they are different from my own. It is a fascinating process for me.

    I live in a very small town, and we frequent all the small towns around us, as well as the cities, freely. We call people in the other towns neighbors. Your circumstances really are outside my box, but that is ok.

    I also don't necessarily agree with the drinking age in our country. If you are old enough to vote and die for your country at 18, I think you should be old enough to drink. And its hard to teach kids to be responsible when they can't drink until their out of your care. So I understand that aspect of your culture.

    I'm not sure I can help you with any of the problems you are having, but I wanted to say that I am glad you are part of our community here. I like to learn about the cultural differences, and perhaps we can offer some insight and help with your kiddos to fit into your society. I think that's all any of us are seeking - for our kids to be a productive and blended part of the society they live in.

    And perhaps eventually we will have more members from similar cultures that can offer you insight.

    Hang in there. You've had a rough road, and it sounds like your girls aren't the cause, so much, for you. But still a problem of a child that doesn't fit into society, nonetheless.

    Hugs and support.
  11. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Rotsne, sending hugs and positive thoughts. I really cannot get a full grasp on the way in which your government is allowed to intervene to such a degree as to try and force your daughter to go to boarding school without your input and consent, especially at 15 years of age.

    Drinking here and there at that age, IMVHO, is not so uncommon and certainly doesn't warrant her being sent away. However, if alongside the drinking there are other behavioral issues which cause great concern for your family (that does not seem to be the case), then yes, I think that it would be a consideration.

    Mostly, what I am hearing in your post is that the family coach is there to help your daughter find balance in her life and not to take on too much off her mother's caretaking. I can see that being an understandable concern.

    A 15 year old should be able, and willing, to contribute to the family on the whole. However, I think it's questionable as to whether or not she should be putting her own social life and school life on hold indefinitely.

    Like I said, however, I am not fully grasping the ways in which your societal classes work and how involved the government is involved and how those relate to your country's health care services.

    Best of luck to you and yours.