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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 753426" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>While I was out doing an errand, I thought of your situation. I wondered if I was remiss, in not supporting you just to ignore her. I think I didn't because I didn't believe it would work. I don't believe you can make somebody treat you as you deserve. It has to be voluntary. I think we can set limits over how much we expose ourselves to hurt or mistreatment. But I don't believe we can change people who have no incentive to change. But as I thought longer about this, I am feeling differently.</p><p></p><p>First, let me get this out of the way. The hard part here is that we are their parents and we have a desire to help them and to insulate them from harm. So we subject ourselves to their misbehavior. Until we stop.</p><p></p><p>If you withhold support or help to her...to motivate her to change how she treats you she would be right to say you're manipulating, I think.</p><p></p><p>I can see your situation. If there is only one more semester it makes sense to just hold your breath and get through it, knowing that you will shortly have more wiggle room after she completes college. This is a goal that is important to you. And why shoot yourselves in the foot, by moving her out and having to pay $15,000 more or whatever the dorm would cost.</p><p></p><p>So. Thinking this through maybe your best bet is to think of this in terms of your goals and what you need. And try to ignore her. It sounds like your priority is that she finish school. It sounds like you need less conflict. It sounds like you need to feel you're acting from integrity. What if you keep this simple and pare down your needs to this?</p><p></p><p>I think the fewer things there are to fight about the better. If she fights you about money, and this is a source of conflict, could you see your way through to giving her an allowance, just for these next 6 months? That would cover her transportation, co-pays, personal products, etc. What I hate is the constant badgering and blaming and begging. Or is there somebody (besides you and your husband) who could dispense the money, if she is irresponsible?</p><p></p><p>I just don't see her right now getting a job just because you insist. She will fight you. She will drag her feet. She will insult you. She will sabotage. Do you really need this battle, if it's a question of months before she finishes school? Maybe the most realistic goal right now is that things calm down, and that people put their long knives away. You are in the home stretch.</p><p></p><p>I think I would also try to minimize conflict about the therapist. Let her do whatever she wants. Just let go. Say to yourself, 'ho hum," this is boring me.</p><p></p><p>There used to be an intervention in psychotherapy called "strategic" what was just letting go. Think of two people holding two sides of a long rope, each pulling in different directions. And then one of them lets go. What happens? Without the resistance from the other person pulling, the lone rope puller falls down on their behind. They lose the possibility of the "win." And fall all over themselves. This is what I would try to do with daughter. Let her fighting you result in her falling down on her butt, so that she gets her own attention. And you? Put down your end of the rope. The psychologists got this principle from martial arts. The idea of using your opponent's own force against him. But harnessing it for your own aims.</p><p></p><p>With respect to the allowance. I am not saying it's right for her to get an allowance from you if she is capable of working. But if she has to ask you for every single thing, that's a lot of conflict. For you. And she is doing not one thing to make this easier. Every single request she uses to beat you up. I don't think it is wrong to think about your needs here. How you can make this easier for you?</p><p></p><p>You are no longer parenting a young child here who you can teach and shape and reinforce. She is an adult and she is responsible for herself, or should be. I am contradicting myself here. Because I am a firm believer that we never lose the obligation as parents to model morality and integrity. But I think we need to be realists, too. And not go down with the ship. Your daughter seems dead bent, in winning on every point. It's like hand to hand combat. Sometimes we have to pick our battles. And that that is the lesson and principle we impart to our child. It's not surrender. It's wisdom.</p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">This is what I mean:</span></span>I would keep your eyes on the ball, and not get distracted by her. You gain nothing by getting into it with her. You can't change her. Control her or cure her. (Smile.) I would think about what makes this easier and more tolerable for you. This is not only self-preservation. It's modeling boundaries to her by not engaging with her in a destructive tit for tat. Because she's not open to your communication either by word or deed. She is engaging only for combat. That's what I think.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">I do think you should not compromise in ways where you would compromise your deepest values. That's for sure. I think it makes sense to identify what those inviolable values would be. But I don't think these should be about controlling her behavior. Nor do I think it should be about power and authority. I agree with you. It's about your integrity. Not about her.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 753426, member: 18958"] While I was out doing an errand, I thought of your situation. I wondered if I was remiss, in not supporting you just to ignore her. I think I didn't because I didn't believe it would work. I don't believe you can make somebody treat you as you deserve. It has to be voluntary. I think we can set limits over how much we expose ourselves to hurt or mistreatment. But I don't believe we can change people who have no incentive to change. But as I thought longer about this, I am feeling differently. First, let me get this out of the way. The hard part here is that we are their parents and we have a desire to help them and to insulate them from harm. So we subject ourselves to their misbehavior. Until we stop. If you withhold support or help to her...to motivate her to change how she treats you she would be right to say you're manipulating, I think. I can see your situation. If there is only one more semester it makes sense to just hold your breath and get through it, knowing that you will shortly have more wiggle room after she completes college. This is a goal that is important to you. And why shoot yourselves in the foot, by moving her out and having to pay $15,000 more or whatever the dorm would cost. So. Thinking this through maybe your best bet is to think of this in terms of your goals and what you need. And try to ignore her. It sounds like your priority is that she finish school. It sounds like you need less conflict. It sounds like you need to feel you're acting from integrity. What if you keep this simple and pare down your needs to this? I think the fewer things there are to fight about the better. If she fights you about money, and this is a source of conflict, could you see your way through to giving her an allowance, just for these next 6 months? That would cover her transportation, co-pays, personal products, etc. What I hate is the constant badgering and blaming and begging. Or is there somebody (besides you and your husband) who could dispense the money, if she is irresponsible? I just don't see her right now getting a job just because you insist. She will fight you. She will drag her feet. She will insult you. She will sabotage. Do you really need this battle, if it's a question of months before she finishes school? Maybe the most realistic goal right now is that things calm down, and that people put their long knives away. You are in the home stretch. I think I would also try to minimize conflict about the therapist. Let her do whatever she wants. Just let go. Say to yourself, 'ho hum," this is boring me. There used to be an intervention in psychotherapy called "strategic" what was just letting go. Think of two people holding two sides of a long rope, each pulling in different directions. And then one of them lets go. What happens? Without the resistance from the other person pulling, the lone rope puller falls down on their behind. They lose the possibility of the "win." And fall all over themselves. This is what I would try to do with daughter. Let her fighting you result in her falling down on her butt, so that she gets her own attention. And you? Put down your end of the rope. The psychologists got this principle from martial arts. The idea of using your opponent's own force against him. But harnessing it for your own aims. With respect to the allowance. I am not saying it's right for her to get an allowance from you if she is capable of working. But if she has to ask you for every single thing, that's a lot of conflict. For you. And she is doing not one thing to make this easier. Every single request she uses to beat you up. I don't think it is wrong to think about your needs here. How you can make this easier for you? You are no longer parenting a young child here who you can teach and shape and reinforce. She is an adult and she is responsible for herself, or should be. I am contradicting myself here. Because I am a firm believer that we never lose the obligation as parents to model morality and integrity. But I think we need to be realists, too. And not go down with the ship. Your daughter seems dead bent, in winning on every point. It's like hand to hand combat. Sometimes we have to pick our battles. And that that is the lesson and principle we impart to our child. It's not surrender. It's wisdom. [LEFT][FONT=trebuchet ms][COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)] This is what I mean:[/COLOR][/FONT]I would keep your eyes on the ball, and not get distracted by her. You gain nothing by getting into it with her. You can't change her. Control her or cure her. (Smile.) I would think about what makes this easier and more tolerable for you. This is not only self-preservation. It's modeling boundaries to her by not engaging with her in a destructive tit for tat. Because she's not open to your communication either by word or deed. She is engaging only for combat. That's what I think. I do think you should not compromise in ways where you would compromise your deepest values. That's for sure. I think it makes sense to identify what those inviolable values would be. But I don't think these should be about controlling her behavior. Nor do I think it should be about power and authority. I agree with you. It's about your integrity. Not about her.[/LEFT] [/QUOTE]
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