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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 174178" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>OK, a lot of these medications can have problems, but surely not in the majority of cases? While it's wise to be cautious, we also need to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. For example I am as aware of anyone of the record that Zoloft has, in terms of suicidal ideation. However, I didn't know any of this when difficult child 1 began taking Zoloft. I was very grateful to Zoloft for the way it probably PREVENTED his suicidal tendencies at the time from getting out of control. </p><p>He still takes Zoloft. He's been on it for about 8 years now, on varying doses (fairly low at the moment).</p><p>It works - for him. I hate to think what he would be like without it.</p><p>However - in the last year or so, TWO women I knew died almost certainly connected to Zoloft and its depressive effects on them. In one of them, the post-mortem couldn't find any serotonin - her levels had plummeted to indetectable.</p><p></p><p>Jody, you do have a problem and your son is not the main cause. He is just one factor in your environment; what is more, he is an environmental factor who is actually influenced by your response to him. In other words, he is an environmental factor that you can change. But you need to get help for yourself, in order to be the mother you want to be, for him. </p><p>If medications are prescribed, inform yourself and ask questions but be prepared to take them. Keep alert, ensure those around you keep alert and report ANY concerns you or others may have to the possibility of reactions. However, the odds are that you would be helped rather than hindered, by medications. Also, the odds are tat if there ARE any problems, they will show up fairly early in the course.</p><p></p><p>With your raging at your son - please also be aware (and I don't want to hurt you, but you must keep this in mind) that when you rage at your son, and then cuddle him in tears apologising, you are not making it all better. One session of screaming at him can undo many days' wonderful relationship. Instead, you are probably confusing him a great deal and it WILL take time to recover from this. You can't have this happen, and expect everything to be perfectly OK and back to normal. While apologising is better than not, the instability he will perceive in his environment will be almost as frightening to him as your initial outburst.</p><p></p><p>I have a constructive suggestion or two for you.</p><p></p><p>1) Next time you feel as frustrated as this, walk away. Do not engage.</p><p>I hold in my memory a story my mother once told me. My eldest sister, who always loved children and couldn't wait to have her own, was permitted to hold a cousin's baby while the cousin left the room. It was my sister's first time holding a baby with the mother not being present. Suddenly my sister became nervous - "what if I drop the baby?" Her hands were shaking, which only made her more nervous. My mother said to her, "Put the baby on the floor. She can't fall any further from there. Then walk away."</p><p>My mother COULD have taken the baby from my sister, but then she never would have learnt how to manage her panic reaction.</p><p></p><p>2) Pick your battles. difficult children do NOT respond well to panic and anxiety in someone; it can make their behaviour worse. If something is urgent, they are MORE likely to dig their heels in and want everything left just as it is. It's better to never have this argument at all, than to have it and lose so spectacularly.</p><p></p><p>3) Modify your standards. "Cleaning up for company" needs to take on a different meaning under these circumstances. While I would LOVE a house that is minimalist with artworks on the walls and fine ceramics sitting in solitary dust-free splendour on the freshly polished teak furniture, I know that such a look is totally at odds with the reality of our home, which is very much lived-in by a large and active family. I know from experience just what battles we get, when I either try to get kids to clean their rooms or (heaven forbid) I try to clean their rooms myself. And when visitors come - I can't even close the doors any more, there is just too much STUFF on the floor. And walls. And doorknob. You get the picture. </p><p>BUT - we have a home that is lived in, where you can see the interests, the joy, the activities and the intelligence. While I would one day like our hallway to be filled with family photos, the few that are there share space with nursery rhyme friezes, children's artwork, cobwebs and dust. Food is restricted to areas dedicated for it, so what mess there is is primarily clutter and not compost.</p><p>While I would love to hang a pretty painting in the toilet, that will take some time. For now, the area behind the toilet door is 'decorated' with a social story for difficult child 3, an Escher printout form the computer (with corresponding Lego version), some notes on Algebra, a sheet on balancing Chemistry equations and a laminated copy of the Periodic Table. Otherwise,e the toilet is odour-free and (moderately) splash-free with the difficult children (thankfully, due to their obsessions) trained to keep the seat wiped and the lid down. Even the boys.</p><p>Because that is how we LIVE, that is normality.</p><p></p><p>I used to tidy for company. Then enough times I had people just drop in, that there was no point trying to maintain the fiction that we lived in a tidy house. I had to make a choice - a tidy house, or a happy, enriched environment.</p><p>Now, when company is coming over, I make sure I have enough chairs available for seating. If people are coming for a meal, I clean off difficult child 3's schoolwork form the dining table. And if I do it, then I know where it's all been put. Otherwise, company coming over has to take us as they find us.</p><p></p><p>But we need to involve the kids to some extent, or how will they ever learn? </p><p></p><p>How to involve the kids - the starting point is their own things. If I'm cleaning the living room and I find difficult child 3's jeans, a pair of sneakers, a stack of computer games and an empty chip wrapper, then I call him in. "OK kid, some of this stuff here is yours. First, put the chip wrapper in the bin. While you're doing that, you can also throw this old newspaper in the recycling (since you're going to the bin anyway). Then come back here, there is more stuff of yours."</p><p>One task at a time. And I also make sure I'm still seen to be working too.</p><p>When he comes back, "OK son, here are your jeans and your sneakers. Are they clean or dirty? Where should they be? Please put them there NOW. Thank you. I will call you back again if I find anything more of yours where it shouldn't be. On the other hand, if you look around now, can you see anything more you could deal with now?"</p><p></p><p>We live according to how we open our doors. I'd love a tidy house, but I love the peace and quiet more. When people visit, they see happy kids, not scowls of resentment. If someone sits on our couch they won't find unpleasant surprises under the couch cushions - they're more likely to see the stuff BEFORE they sit down.</p><p></p><p>The housekeeping rules we have tried to stick to - you are responsible for your own room. If Mum can't get into your room without risking turning an ankle, then you must take care of your own washing, linen and tidying. ENTIRELY. But communal areas are to be kept clean for everyone to share.</p><p></p><p>Other rules which work for us as a family - clean up as you go. If you make a sandwich, put your dirty things in the sink or dishwasher. Take your fair turn at washing up. Whoever cooks does not wash up. If you want something extra special, but fiddly, for dinner - you may have it if you help make it. Otherwise - dream on.</p><p></p><p>Washing - it's done on Thursdays except where specially arranged for reasons deemed by PARENTS to be important (otherwise, do your own). All washing is to be in the laundry tub by time of washing. All laundry must have already had pockets checked, stains soaped, sweat smells treated with vinegar.</p><p>The washing will be hung on the clothesline, shirts hung on hangers. Please put empty hangs in the laundry for re-use. An empty hanger in your wardrobe usually means the shirt belonging to it is in the wash. That shirt will need to be hung up.</p><p>Washing will be returned to you folded and/or on hangers. Please put it away yourself.</p><p></p><p>And so on.</p><p></p><p>By doing the washing the way I do - sorting and folding it as I get it off the line - I don't have piles of laundry to add to the confusion. It comes in the house and generally gets put away immediately. I do not iron unless it is desperate. Generally, clothes needing to be ironed do not get worn. Eventually, clothes needing to be ironed do not get bought. There are ways to hang clothes on the line that prevents any need for ironing, especially if you fold as you collect it.</p><p></p><p>So if company is arriving - I won't waste the energy on tidying, unless I need to clear a space for you to sit down. </p><p></p><p>Instead, I might bake a cake.</p><p></p><p>I stopped worrying about what other people think, long ago. It was a luxury I could no longer afford. Instead, I now accept that I'm the person who makes other people feel so much better about the state of their own house.</p><p></p><p>We may live in a mess, but we also live in a routine. That routine keeps us going and keeps it all working.</p><p></p><p>One day, we will be able to throw out a lot of stuff and find the floors we haven't seen in years...</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 174178, member: 1991"] OK, a lot of these medications can have problems, but surely not in the majority of cases? While it's wise to be cautious, we also need to not throw out the baby with the bathwater. For example I am as aware of anyone of the record that Zoloft has, in terms of suicidal ideation. However, I didn't know any of this when difficult child 1 began taking Zoloft. I was very grateful to Zoloft for the way it probably PREVENTED his suicidal tendencies at the time from getting out of control. He still takes Zoloft. He's been on it for about 8 years now, on varying doses (fairly low at the moment). It works - for him. I hate to think what he would be like without it. However - in the last year or so, TWO women I knew died almost certainly connected to Zoloft and its depressive effects on them. In one of them, the post-mortem couldn't find any serotonin - her levels had plummeted to indetectable. Jody, you do have a problem and your son is not the main cause. He is just one factor in your environment; what is more, he is an environmental factor who is actually influenced by your response to him. In other words, he is an environmental factor that you can change. But you need to get help for yourself, in order to be the mother you want to be, for him. If medications are prescribed, inform yourself and ask questions but be prepared to take them. Keep alert, ensure those around you keep alert and report ANY concerns you or others may have to the possibility of reactions. However, the odds are that you would be helped rather than hindered, by medications. Also, the odds are tat if there ARE any problems, they will show up fairly early in the course. With your raging at your son - please also be aware (and I don't want to hurt you, but you must keep this in mind) that when you rage at your son, and then cuddle him in tears apologising, you are not making it all better. One session of screaming at him can undo many days' wonderful relationship. Instead, you are probably confusing him a great deal and it WILL take time to recover from this. You can't have this happen, and expect everything to be perfectly OK and back to normal. While apologising is better than not, the instability he will perceive in his environment will be almost as frightening to him as your initial outburst. I have a constructive suggestion or two for you. 1) Next time you feel as frustrated as this, walk away. Do not engage. I hold in my memory a story my mother once told me. My eldest sister, who always loved children and couldn't wait to have her own, was permitted to hold a cousin's baby while the cousin left the room. It was my sister's first time holding a baby with the mother not being present. Suddenly my sister became nervous - "what if I drop the baby?" Her hands were shaking, which only made her more nervous. My mother said to her, "Put the baby on the floor. She can't fall any further from there. Then walk away." My mother COULD have taken the baby from my sister, but then she never would have learnt how to manage her panic reaction. 2) Pick your battles. difficult children do NOT respond well to panic and anxiety in someone; it can make their behaviour worse. If something is urgent, they are MORE likely to dig their heels in and want everything left just as it is. It's better to never have this argument at all, than to have it and lose so spectacularly. 3) Modify your standards. "Cleaning up for company" needs to take on a different meaning under these circumstances. While I would LOVE a house that is minimalist with artworks on the walls and fine ceramics sitting in solitary dust-free splendour on the freshly polished teak furniture, I know that such a look is totally at odds with the reality of our home, which is very much lived-in by a large and active family. I know from experience just what battles we get, when I either try to get kids to clean their rooms or (heaven forbid) I try to clean their rooms myself. And when visitors come - I can't even close the doors any more, there is just too much STUFF on the floor. And walls. And doorknob. You get the picture. BUT - we have a home that is lived in, where you can see the interests, the joy, the activities and the intelligence. While I would one day like our hallway to be filled with family photos, the few that are there share space with nursery rhyme friezes, children's artwork, cobwebs and dust. Food is restricted to areas dedicated for it, so what mess there is is primarily clutter and not compost. While I would love to hang a pretty painting in the toilet, that will take some time. For now, the area behind the toilet door is 'decorated' with a social story for difficult child 3, an Escher printout form the computer (with corresponding Lego version), some notes on Algebra, a sheet on balancing Chemistry equations and a laminated copy of the Periodic Table. Otherwise,e the toilet is odour-free and (moderately) splash-free with the difficult children (thankfully, due to their obsessions) trained to keep the seat wiped and the lid down. Even the boys. Because that is how we LIVE, that is normality. I used to tidy for company. Then enough times I had people just drop in, that there was no point trying to maintain the fiction that we lived in a tidy house. I had to make a choice - a tidy house, or a happy, enriched environment. Now, when company is coming over, I make sure I have enough chairs available for seating. If people are coming for a meal, I clean off difficult child 3's schoolwork form the dining table. And if I do it, then I know where it's all been put. Otherwise, company coming over has to take us as they find us. But we need to involve the kids to some extent, or how will they ever learn? How to involve the kids - the starting point is their own things. If I'm cleaning the living room and I find difficult child 3's jeans, a pair of sneakers, a stack of computer games and an empty chip wrapper, then I call him in. "OK kid, some of this stuff here is yours. First, put the chip wrapper in the bin. While you're doing that, you can also throw this old newspaper in the recycling (since you're going to the bin anyway). Then come back here, there is more stuff of yours." One task at a time. And I also make sure I'm still seen to be working too. When he comes back, "OK son, here are your jeans and your sneakers. Are they clean or dirty? Where should they be? Please put them there NOW. Thank you. I will call you back again if I find anything more of yours where it shouldn't be. On the other hand, if you look around now, can you see anything more you could deal with now?" We live according to how we open our doors. I'd love a tidy house, but I love the peace and quiet more. When people visit, they see happy kids, not scowls of resentment. If someone sits on our couch they won't find unpleasant surprises under the couch cushions - they're more likely to see the stuff BEFORE they sit down. The housekeeping rules we have tried to stick to - you are responsible for your own room. If Mum can't get into your room without risking turning an ankle, then you must take care of your own washing, linen and tidying. ENTIRELY. But communal areas are to be kept clean for everyone to share. Other rules which work for us as a family - clean up as you go. If you make a sandwich, put your dirty things in the sink or dishwasher. Take your fair turn at washing up. Whoever cooks does not wash up. If you want something extra special, but fiddly, for dinner - you may have it if you help make it. Otherwise - dream on. Washing - it's done on Thursdays except where specially arranged for reasons deemed by PARENTS to be important (otherwise, do your own). All washing is to be in the laundry tub by time of washing. All laundry must have already had pockets checked, stains soaped, sweat smells treated with vinegar. The washing will be hung on the clothesline, shirts hung on hangers. Please put empty hangs in the laundry for re-use. An empty hanger in your wardrobe usually means the shirt belonging to it is in the wash. That shirt will need to be hung up. Washing will be returned to you folded and/or on hangers. Please put it away yourself. And so on. By doing the washing the way I do - sorting and folding it as I get it off the line - I don't have piles of laundry to add to the confusion. It comes in the house and generally gets put away immediately. I do not iron unless it is desperate. Generally, clothes needing to be ironed do not get worn. Eventually, clothes needing to be ironed do not get bought. There are ways to hang clothes on the line that prevents any need for ironing, especially if you fold as you collect it. So if company is arriving - I won't waste the energy on tidying, unless I need to clear a space for you to sit down. Instead, I might bake a cake. I stopped worrying about what other people think, long ago. It was a luxury I could no longer afford. Instead, I now accept that I'm the person who makes other people feel so much better about the state of their own house. We may live in a mess, but we also live in a routine. That routine keeps us going and keeps it all working. One day, we will be able to throw out a lot of stuff and find the floors we haven't seen in years... Marg [/QUOTE]
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