So angry...

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Lost in sadness, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Lost in sadness

    Lost in sadness Active Member

    So, things have been really up and down with my son. We cannot seem to talk without arguing I nag him to do stuff and he does nothing. Landlord contacted me, no surprises, no rent paid! I told my son I was no paying anymore and he needed to sell whatever he has bought to pay his rent. I feel sick. There is snow on the ground and minus temperatures here. I cant sleep. I paid the rent but told the landlord not to say anything so that he paid her too.

    Just had a massive row with him as he has rang me up wanting me to be a guarantor for a loan. I refused. Been there before. he got angry, told me 'what sort of mother etc etc', 'work with me' etc etc. I hung up. He kept ringing me and then became quite abusive telling me I didn't have a choice anyway and he was going to do it.

    I have just checked his email and in his deleted emails is an accepted loan with me as guarantor!! He has completed it and signed on my behalf and got his girlfriend to pretend to be me!! I am so sad, angry. I hate him!!!! Shall I report him? Please help!
     
  2. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    First, if you have the info on the loan...contact the loan agency and tell them you didn't sign as a guarantor.

    You need to get your name off of the loan...if that doesn't work, I guess I would call the police. I hope it wasn't a huge amount!

    Ksm
     
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  3. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I don’t think it’s a question of should you report him, you have to. This is fraud. If you don’t report it, and you have knowledge of it, if he reneged on the loan, you would have to pay it. I think it would be too late if you let it slide. What would you say? It’s forged and you knew? Then you are complicit in the offense.
    Not only for that reason, it’s dishonest and abusive. He is using you.
    Unacceptable.
    I am sorry.
    I know you worry about him being in the cold, it seems he knows this. He’s got you, he thinks.
    Not a good position to be in.
    For you.
    Or him.
    He won’t learn.
    He won’t stop, until you stand up for yourself.
    Los, you matter.
    Leafy
     
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I would have reported it. Period. A stranger did this to me once. I reported it. If my own kid was horrible enough to do it, I would turn him in. He needs to learn what will happen to him if he is a criminal and identity thief. Which he is right now. Turn the girl in too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  5. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Report it. This is identity theft. If he would forge your name to a loan, who knows what else he's put your name on. The time has come to press charges.

    Call the loan originator and tell them you didn't sign that loan. Call the police and report a case of identity theft. Flag all credit cards so that you must confirm each transaction. Go through transactions with-your bank and consider closing your accounts and opening new ones under different account numbers.

    You've got to crack down on him right now, which means pressing charges, and let the police investigate.

    Not doing say may not only lose you a lot of money, but destroy your credit rating.
     
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  6. Lost in sadness

    Lost in sadness Active Member

    Thank you all so much. I just feel so sad again. Things feel worse than ever! We have all worked so hard from July to when he lost his job two weeks ago. Trying to repair and move forwards. Now, only two weeks away from Christmas we are back to square one. I have told him and his girlfriend I am going to report them. I know I must....but he may have just potentially secured a new job in Insurance and I feel I will totally ruin his life when he may be so close to sorting it again. Worse still my husband has said he is not welcome in our house at Christmas. How can I possibly leave him alone...I know he deserves it but still This is soooo painful! I worry that not having his family at Christmas will be too much for him and he may end his life and then I will get to live with the guilt for the rest of mine. Gosh, I know this sounds so dramatic but it feels it! It feels a mess! I feel a mess! :( :( :( What a mess!
     
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    He has this toxic girlfriend so he won't be alone. Don't worry...at his age and with his current value system she is likely more important to him than you and cousins, aunts etc.

    Family Christmas means more to you than him. If he valued family so much right now, he wouldn't have stolen from you. If he wants to come, bet it is more to get gifts. Which he doesn't deserve. Don't assume your longing for a family Christmas matches his. Is it even safe to let him in the house? He could steal from you again or another person who loves him.

    As for the job, they wont know about the police report and I doubt if he is ready to settle into a long term, serious career...the job, for as long as he keeps it, is sort of a holding place job. in my opinion he needs to learn a lesson about stealing and identity theft more than get this job, although, really, it is unlikely to be affected.

    What if he steals at work? What is to stop him? Both obviously feel they can break the law.

    Now if you feel you must see son around Christmas, but he could destroy your family celebration, meet him the day before at a public restaurant and buy him a meal. That is more than he would have gotten from me. One of our sons used my ex hubs credit card to charge filthy movies to himself and got nothing for Christmas that year. He pouted at Christmas, but we ignored him. He was still a minor so he was with us but all he did was sulk in the corner and mumble that it was mean for us to get him nothing for Christmas. He was about thirteen then. Filthy movies. Memorizing Dad's credit card. Young to be so sneaky.

    We told him non chalantly "Son, your Christmas present was the $500 worth of movies you charged to us. We hope they were worth it."

    He never stole from us again. We MUST teach them right from wrong and about consequences. We MUST. Society will NOT be kind if your son does this to a stranger. This is a teaching moment that you have to take advantage of.
     
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  8. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    I'm sorry to respond this way, but hopefully you already know it deep down. Your son may be bridged with a new job, but he won't be "sorted," as I understand that word. Forgery, loan fraud and abusiveness to family aren't the natural consequences of unemployment. And they have their own consequences in the real world.

    What are we teaching our difficult children if they steal from us counting on the relationship to shield them from those consequences, and it works?

    That stealing works for him, and that this silent victim relationship works for you too.

    Many of us have been threatened in similar ways... If you don't give me money, I will have to deal. If I don't get what I want, I don't know if I can live another day. If you report me, I'll end up in jail and have a record, and maybe get shanked. Could you imagine our kids telling their teacher after they got caught doing something naughty, if you tell my parents, I won't behave for a whole week? In any other context, people would laugh at this kind of doubling down.

    We all tolerated their worsening behavior out of a belief that they would see the light. But basically, when we've stood in front of them to protect them, we've also cast our own shadows on them and shielded them from the light.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  9. Lost in sadness

    Lost in sadness Active Member

    Sam3
    Your post made me cry but in a kind of beautiful way...as if it released my guilt just for a moment. I want to save him from the world, from such obvious mistakes but I think I am also just trying to save myself, from the pain, the shame, the sadness that my own dreams of how my family should be are shattered on a daily basis. Its just not fair. x
     
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  10. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    I get that. We have all felt that too. And it's a difficult thing to admit. They are doing things that would bring shame to any reasonable person.

    But I am the parent of a troubled adult child. I can't speak for your son, but what is good for DCs is incredibly counterintuitive, by any reasonable persons measure.

    It's like a gladiator fight. Ugly and with spectators. At the end of the day, our kids need real strength though, so we have to face the reality and fight in that arena. I have learned that I have to parent to my son's actions, not to his words. The bile that comes out is about as meangful as his promises and his claims that he is fine.
     
  11. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    Read the Detachment post, it's on the Parent Emeritus Forum on this website. It is usually in the top 4 slots at the top of the forum. Learn to set boundaries...be firm...and find a way with the level of contact you are comfortable with.

    Ksm
     
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  12. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Lost
    You are not alone!! I agree with all the advice you have been given thus far.

    Our son is 18. He stole money from our UK bank accounts after stealing husbands UK bank cards. And we caught him with our cheque books.

    We had him arrested and didn’t bail him out of Big boy jail for 10 days. Was this easy not by a long shot. Was it right? I have no doubt. And even after all of this he is still giving us the gears. Don’t let the FOG grind you down.

    Big hugs.
     
  13. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    lost. welcome. you have come to the right place.

    one more vote to report what he did. i see no other option except to inform in writing where he fraudulently obtained the loan and to make a police report (which will be required to establish it was fraudulently obtained.)

    to cover for him is to consent to and support criminal activity. to have a merry christmas with the perpetrator of crimes aginst you is to normalize this behavior.

    you did not do this to him. he did this to you and to himself.

    i would pay no more rent. i would try with all my strength to block his calls. you to not deserve this abuse and victimization by your own child.

    almost every single one of of us have suffered a version of this. this is not your fault.

    i am so very sorry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  14. StillStanding

    StillStanding Active Member

    I'm so sorry this happened to you.

    At the risk of disagreeing with everyone, my opinion is that you found out about the loan by reading his email. Stop reading his email. I don't think you have a "responsibility" to report him. If they come to you to collect, you didn't guarantee the loan.

    Good luck with whatever you decide.
     
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  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I don't believe in reading their emails EXCEPT that he threatened to "do it anyway." So you were protecting yourself. You had to check it out in any way you could. Who cares if he says you crossed a boundary to find out he swindled you?? Too bad.

    in my opinion regardless of how you found out, he committed a SERIOUS crime against you! How dare he! He is your son...you have always loved him with all your heart. Yet he swindled you. Really??

    Absolutely nothing will be learned by him or this co conspiritor criminal girlfriend if you let it go except he will have put one over on you, endangered your well being and violated YOUR rights. Turn him in or he will do it again. His girlfriend faked your signature. That is far more heinous than checking his email to protect yourself.
    I would have done the same.

    I think you should also make any access to bank account or credit card numbers impossible, even if you need to change all your accounts. Yes, it's a pain and a shame that your own son would make you have to do this. Think of this. Do criminal kids who harm us financially deserve privacy when they plan to ruin us?

    You certainly don't have to turn them in. It is a personal decision. But then.they will have gotten away with this, learned that Mom's a sucker (this is how our criminal kids think) and you will have to pay for it.

    He is your beloved son and he did this to you. This would make me even more determined to stop the abuse and teach him it is dangerous to HIM to steal from you. This behavior of our grown kids in my opinion does not stop if we don't take strong measures. Privacy issues? To me, his threat to get you to "sign" the loan anyway took away his right to have privacy. If you hadn't checked, you would have been blindsided. He needs to become a better person.

    Jmo
     
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  16. Lost in sadness

    Lost in sadness Active Member

    Hi All
    Its funny, you read these posts and replies and they give such comfort that you are not alone. I am also aware of the deep need to be 'told' what to do. Almost as if I could count the replies in pros and cons and the most will 'win' because that is right. I feel like I have lost any sense of self. I am a bright, articulate person but yet I cannot seem to think straight and make decisions. I do want to say that I do not read my sons emails without his permission. He allows me access as I help him with job applications and letters. He COULD change his password at any time but doesn't as he knows this is cutting his nose off to spite his face. I am torn now. If I do nothing when I have told them I will report them then he gets away with it. If I report him, I feel I am really throwing away any chance of a relationship with him and he will end up homeless and on the streets. That thought is just too painful to bear
     
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    hi lost.

    look. you (like most of us) are writing the end of the story at the very beginning.

    children even adult ones need us to set limits, to illustrate correct living, really, to be moral authorities about life, that is, to live right. i truly believe that. we show to them their value as people by our acts towards them. even if those acts, especially if, they curb them.

    i could write another end to your story. he continues with worse crimes. against you or others.

    or another ending. he gets angry. he cuts you off for a time. he stabilizes. he has time to think. to mature. and he comes to a deeper understanding of life and himself. your relationship improves.

    there is self-respect. that counts too. the knowing you are acting based upon your deepest values.

    consistency in my mind is the least of it. this is not about follow through. it is about not permitting that your child or anybody else criminally victimize you or with your consent anybody else.

    that there are more important things than convenience, image, getting along or even achievement.

    your son demonstrated something real about himself. He can change. But this cannot be ignored as far as i can see.

    your son perpetrated a crime against you. some things cannot be either overlooked or circumvented. they need to be faced and overcome. in my mind this is one of them.

    you know this. that is why you are shaken to your core. why you have lost words and feel unrooted from what has defined you.

    this is a real.

    oh. i know what the pain must be. the not knowing.

    honestly. i am only saying what i believe. i would have exactly the same struggle as you.

    but. i do not know how you walk this back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  18. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    First of all, go to the credit reporting agencies and freeze your credit. That way no one can open an account or take out a loan in your name. You can unfreeze it at any time if you want to open an account.

    Next, go to the bank and set up a code that is needed to access your account(s). It is an extra safety barrier.

    Finally, stop threatening and not following through. You said in your post that you nag and he doesn't follow through. What is your response when he doesn't follow through? You said that you said you would not pay his rent but went ahead and did it anyway. Then you told him that you were going to report him. Are you going to follow through? If not, you are teaching him that his actions have no consequences and are giving him license to keep abusing you.

    I would absolutely report him. There have been parents on this forum that had their bank accounts emptied out by their troubled children. Please don't be one of them. If he doesn't pay the loan (and we both know he won't), they will come after you. You might be able to fight it but think of the heartache, time, and trouble that will take.

    Please find a support group like Families Anonymous to help you deal with this. For me, private therapy was a godsend. I finally learned how to set firm boundaries and stop enabling my daughter's bad behavior. It changed my life and my daughter's, too. Once my husband and I learned how to stop giving into our daughter's threats and manipulation, she got better. She went back into treatment followed by a year long stay in a sober living program and has been sober for almost two years.

    ~Kathy
     
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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You don't have any relationship with him anyway or he would never have violated you. Just talking to him or listening to him abuse you is no sort of relationship. A relationship requires respect and trust.

    It doesn't serve our wrong way adult children well when we refuse to set reasonable expectations and consequences from them because we are afraid of them leaving is. Truth is, if not for our money and often housing, many would have left long ago. They come back, or not, if they grow mature enough to see their wrongs and see us through kind eyes. A real relationship with a grown child is not like dealing with a surly six year old.
     
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  20. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    Great and necessary observation, SWOT.

    A therapist once told me that many pathologies originate from the desire to be liked.

    Maybe that's why many of these posts, including my own until recently, read like we are afraid our kids will break up with us.
     
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