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Some of what the Pittsburgh terror brings up for me
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 741865" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Yes. You said that before you spoke about truth. And I answered you mis-hearing you, even though you were very clear that you were speaking about truth not as an abstract concept but about flesh and blood, heart-felt souls.</p><p></p><p>I am stricken that I so quickly distanced myself from that. Is that not part of the same continuum of these "loser" conspiracy theorists who are trying to find somewhere to hide to not feel their flesh and blood heartfelt sorrow and pain? When I worked in prison I felt compassionate understanding of almost every prisoner (there were just a few over the years I recoiled from.) I believed in a shared humanity. Why is it so hard to feel it?</p><p>That is exactly it.</p><p>I am struggling with this, to wrap my head around it, because this is really the nutshell of the thing. Is it that we have moved away as a people from the sense that we live in an objectively defined world, with parameters that each of us accepts and understands? Or is it alienation, the sense that the world has left us, and we are lost and need to and can with a few other nutcases, make a new one with new rules? This is really cult-like. And 40 years ago this kind of thing was really and clearly on the lunatic fringe. I mean. How is this different than Jonestown? This kind of thing used to be thought of as evil and abhorrent and absolutely confined to the realm of madness. And now?</p><p>I am really struggling with this and I believe our society is struggling with it too. I agree that public space and cover and protections should not be given to people who threaten public safety, like yelling "fire" in a movie theater. Free speech does not "trump" the right of people as a collective, their right to be unmolested and not threatened by lunacy, just because.</p><p></p><p>I believe what is being negotiated by facebook, about the election and the freedom of the marketplace and freedom of communications is all a part of this same thing.</p><p>I listen a lot to cable news as a way to distract myself from my own pain. I hear the broadcasters struggling with their own complicity in ushering in this madness as they seek "ratings."</p><p></p><p>I guess what I am saying here is there is a tension, an opposition. If we cut off arbitrarily this conversation, and by that I mean, even the fringe elements, we are deprived of the ability to work it through, having it rise to the surface so to purge it. But at the same time if we empower it, by letting it have voice and the ability to take hold and to run, we risk being destroyed.</p><p></p><p>I think the answer to use your words, is to have a "reality" mechanism. Like some newspapers verify or not statements of public officials as "truth" or "lies." But there is so much bloviating now, with so much media, and internet free speech, that we have lost control. There are not enough conscious and conscientious and responsible people to contain and review all of this cultural production to feed it back to us so we can see ourselves, take stock, and improve as a people. Not in real time.</p><p></p><p>This is one beauty of this forum. For me, it is not so much that I get wise counsel and support, which I surely do. It is that I get this ability to review my thoughts and feelings, how I manifest, so that I can take account and be better. I can come closer and closer to being "true" to myself and real.</p><p></p><p>Thank you, Elsi.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 741865, member: 18958"] Yes. You said that before you spoke about truth. And I answered you mis-hearing you, even though you were very clear that you were speaking about truth not as an abstract concept but about flesh and blood, heart-felt souls. I am stricken that I so quickly distanced myself from that. Is that not part of the same continuum of these "loser" conspiracy theorists who are trying to find somewhere to hide to not feel their flesh and blood heartfelt sorrow and pain? When I worked in prison I felt compassionate understanding of almost every prisoner (there were just a few over the years I recoiled from.) I believed in a shared humanity. Why is it so hard to feel it? That is exactly it. I am struggling with this, to wrap my head around it, because this is really the nutshell of the thing. Is it that we have moved away as a people from the sense that we live in an objectively defined world, with parameters that each of us accepts and understands? Or is it alienation, the sense that the world has left us, and we are lost and need to and can with a few other nutcases, make a new one with new rules? This is really cult-like. And 40 years ago this kind of thing was really and clearly on the lunatic fringe. I mean. How is this different than Jonestown? This kind of thing used to be thought of as evil and abhorrent and absolutely confined to the realm of madness. And now? I am really struggling with this and I believe our society is struggling with it too. I agree that public space and cover and protections should not be given to people who threaten public safety, like yelling "fire" in a movie theater. Free speech does not "trump" the right of people as a collective, their right to be unmolested and not threatened by lunacy, just because. I believe what is being negotiated by facebook, about the election and the freedom of the marketplace and freedom of communications is all a part of this same thing. I listen a lot to cable news as a way to distract myself from my own pain. I hear the broadcasters struggling with their own complicity in ushering in this madness as they seek "ratings." I guess what I am saying here is there is a tension, an opposition. If we cut off arbitrarily this conversation, and by that I mean, even the fringe elements, we are deprived of the ability to work it through, having it rise to the surface so to purge it. But at the same time if we empower it, by letting it have voice and the ability to take hold and to run, we risk being destroyed. I think the answer to use your words, is to have a "reality" mechanism. Like some newspapers verify or not statements of public officials as "truth" or "lies." But there is so much bloviating now, with so much media, and internet free speech, that we have lost control. There are not enough conscious and conscientious and responsible people to contain and review all of this cultural production to feed it back to us so we can see ourselves, take stock, and improve as a people. Not in real time. This is one beauty of this forum. For me, it is not so much that I get wise counsel and support, which I surely do. It is that I get this ability to review my thoughts and feelings, how I manifest, so that I can take account and be better. I can come closer and closer to being "true" to myself and real. Thank you, Elsi. [/QUOTE]
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Some of what the Pittsburgh terror brings up for me
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