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Son kicked out of the house and my wife enabling him - What do I do?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 366130" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Susie beat me to it - you and your wife need to get to Narc-Anon or Al-Anon. Yo both are making some basic mistakes, although I must stress - NEITHER OF YOU IS TO BLAME FOR THIS.</p><p></p><p>If you can, get your wife to read the thread here. My message is for both of you.</p><p></p><p>First - get to the meetings. There are others there who will show you how you have both been hooked in to enabling this MAN. Drug users are cunning, they are skilled at getting what they want. They have yo be - it is an expensive habit.</p><p></p><p>Now think - how much have you and your wife been giving him, between you? Really? Honestly? Now, how much would his lifestyle be costing to support? Really? Because I'm sure that if you and your wife are bankrolling the lot, you would have noticed an even greater financial drain. And I don't think you have been paying for it all. He is getting money elsewhere to pay for this, and it's likely he's supplying. </p><p></p><p>Once your kid becomes a drug user, he stops being your kid. He becomes an abusive, dangerous stranger. He also has made his own choices. Did you tell him to smoke or sort drugs? What parent would? No, you told him not to. So how is it your fault?</p><p></p><p>Next - with both of you, again. When he pushes the guilt buttons to make you give in to him (or to deflect you form the real topic, which is him making bad choices) you need to be aware that this is classic blame and deflection, and don't buy into it. Take the wind out of his sails - "Yes, we have been bad parents. Absolutely shocking. We failed to provide you with food, shelter and clothing. We failed to give you access to basic education so you're now unable to read and write. We beat you senseless every day and made you work in the mines. Yes, we are abusive. But we did not put drugs into your hands. Around the world there are many abused children who are not drug users. You made your choices; our parenting or not is not relevant to this issue."</p><p></p><p>Agree with him. It's the scariest thing you can do to someone who is oppositional. Because what they have become accustomed to is the childish degeneration of argument to the "Tis! Tisn't!" stage. So observe yourself.</p><p></p><p>Now, to costs - OK, there are cultural differences here, but my father taught me that if people don't pay for what they want, they don't value it. In our case it was the offspring of our dogs. I was upset at my father putting a price on our beloved puppies, especially when I had a young friend who wanted a puppy and couldn't afford one. My father showed me - there was one customer who wanted him to cut the puppy price back a long way. My father had initially refused, but he let the man have the puppy really cheap. And sure enough, the man brought the puppy back the following week. It wasn't good enough. Meanwhile others who had bought puppies (including the people who later bought the rejected puppy at the full price) were very happy, they sent us photos or rang us up to tell us how the puppy was doing and how their kids loved them.</p><p></p><p>We aren 't wealthy. We wanted our kids to go to uni but we can't afford to pay the fees. Student loans are available, plus in Australia uni fees can be held over and paid back once you are in the workforce. Some parents still pay their kids' fees for them; we didn't. Sis-in-law paid her daughter's uni fees and then complained when her daughter didn't bother to study. Meanwhile easy child worked really hard, because she knew that every bit of the cost was coming out of her pocket; if not now, then eventually.</p><p></p><p>I remember my ow uni days - I had to pay for my own expenses. I did my best to study hard because I had a personal investment in this. Meanwhile a friend of mine whose parents paid her fees (and who was a really bright girl, could have done brilliantly) goofed off with her boyfriend the whole time, never bothered to attend classes and eventually got kicked out for lack of progress.</p><p></p><p>I've seen it over and over. I gather in the US it's the custom to put money aside for your kids' education. Some people take out mortgages etc to pay for it. But here, while some parents do this, it's not held to be bad parenting if you choose not to for whatever reason.</p><p></p><p>In your son's case, I would have stipulated some positive academic outcome as a requirement for the next year's tuition to be paid. Otherwise, you can go get a job like other people, and work your own way through college. Frankly, for some people, this is what they need to do in order to survive.</p><p></p><p>We have a native bird here in Australia that you undoubtedly know - the Sulphur-Crested Cockatoo. It's a large white parrot with a bright yellow crest it can raise when it gets excited. We have flocks around here, huge flocks. They used to be considered a pest and people were allowed to shoot them except inside national parks. They are beautiful, they are intelligent. But when people feed them, put out food to encourage them to come near, they get the immediate benefit of the company of these beautiful birds. You might begin feeding one pair, but after a matter of days or weeks your personal flock will have grown to hundreds. As long as you keep feeding them, they will come. They are seed eaters and will rapidly become tame enough to take food from your fingers. But they remain wild birds.</p><p>The problems begin when you discover that wild birds that are intelligent, need to work for their food. If they get their food too easily, they have too much idle time on their hands (or beaks). And cockatoos then get to chewing stuff, getting up to mischief. Even if you weren't the one feeding them, simply living near someone who does, can cause thousands of dollars worth of damage.</p><p>We've had the guttering on our house attacked, all the leaf guard gets pulled out. We put it back in, even rivet it in, and that only gives them more of a fun puzzle trying to work out how to remove it. If your house is made of timber (especially Western Red Cedar, a beautiful but soft wood) then you can find yourself literally eaten out of house and home.</p><p></p><p>The problem with cockatoos is that they are like kids who get it too easy, who don't have to work for their keep. When they get bored because they have too much idle time (they've been fed and they still have some daylight hours left) you always find new mischief they've gotten up to. They become like gangs of hooligans roaming the streets, terrorising the neighbourhood.</p><p></p><p>Maybe that is why Aussies tend to make kids pay their own way once they reach tertiary education!</p><p></p><p>It is not bad parenting to cut your kid loose financially. Your wife needs to understand that as long as she enables your son, she is hastening his death. Our aim as parents is to raise our children to be happy, independent, productive and law-abiding members of society. That is our aim. If we do not succeed despite our best efforts, we shouldn't bet ourselves up about it, but also we shouldn't do anything that interferes with that aim. Enabling someone who refuses to take personal responsibility goes against that aim. You love your child (even if there are times you don't like him much!) but if he is to ever learn to live as an adult, he needs to learn NOW. The more money you keep throwing at him (either by direct handouts, or make-work that he doesn't respect and abuses) then the longer you keep him dependent. And he won't be grateful - no, he will be resentful. </p><p></p><p>You can't win with that kind of nasty, self-centred logic.</p><p></p><p>Your son needs you to cut him loose financially. He is a lot further down the drug abuse path than either of you realises. Your daughter has it right. Sorry. Your daughter perhaps has more claim to accuse you both of bad parenting OF HER, because you are so focussed on saving your son, that her sense of personal safety is neglected. Bur how does your daughter respond? With maturity, with strong personal choices, with clear communication. And with love towards you both. </p><p></p><p>Your son dishes out disrespect, rule-breaking, deceit - and you let him do it and what's more, you make it possible for it to continue.</p><p></p><p>The original diagnosis of ODD was unhelpful - there is generally an underlying disorder with ODD, the real cause which can often be missed. Again, not your fault.</p><p></p><p>As parents, we do the best we can do, given the circumstances and our own fallibility. What sort of a father would your son make right now? How perfect would he be? Your daughter knows this, which is why she loves you and keeps coming home, although under her own stipulations. So you both need to know this too - you should not allow yourselves to be guilted into enabling him any further.</p><p></p><p>It is te kindest thing to do for him, and the fastest way to force the issue to the point it is heading anyway, where HE has to realise that he is on his own and has to choose to live, or to die. HE has to choose. You can't save someone who wants to self-destruct.</p><p></p><p>Get to NarcAnon or similar. You both need it.</p><p></p><p>Also, stick around here. Others here know what you're both going through and can help.</p><p></p><p>The drug-using creature is not your son. Your son is in there, but the drug-user has to be cut off before your son can find his way back. he will say terrible things, he will accuse you of bad parenting, he will threaten to kill himself (he's already doing that) and will threaten to never see you again. My nephew told his mother that if she cut him off, she would never see her grandchildren. ANd she worried about those children terribly, being raised in a house of drug abuse. She saw herself as the only chance for those grandchildren. So it was a threat that so easily could have had her giving way, as she had for so many years. She gave him household goods like a washing machine and furniture (from my mother's house, part of her estate which should have been shared among us, not handed to an addict) and he sold it all for drugs. But she gave him the stuff, in order to try to provide for her grandchildren. But that was HIS job! And while she did it, even in part, she was continuing to enable him.</p><p></p><p>He is still in her life. So are the children. He is now clean. But the journey took over 20 years and it was torture. However, there has been a lot of light at the end of the tunnel now. </p><p></p><p>If my sister had cut off her son sooner, things would have come to a head sooner and he would have learned sooner. </p><p></p><p>You can't fix it forever.</p><p></p><p>So - welcome to the group. Welcome to your wife also.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 366130, member: 1991"] Susie beat me to it - you and your wife need to get to Narc-Anon or Al-Anon. Yo both are making some basic mistakes, although I must stress - NEITHER OF YOU IS TO BLAME FOR THIS. If you can, get your wife to read the thread here. My message is for both of you. First - get to the meetings. There are others there who will show you how you have both been hooked in to enabling this MAN. Drug users are cunning, they are skilled at getting what they want. They have yo be - it is an expensive habit. Now think - how much have you and your wife been giving him, between you? Really? Honestly? Now, how much would his lifestyle be costing to support? Really? Because I'm sure that if you and your wife are bankrolling the lot, you would have noticed an even greater financial drain. And I don't think you have been paying for it all. He is getting money elsewhere to pay for this, and it's likely he's supplying. Once your kid becomes a drug user, he stops being your kid. He becomes an abusive, dangerous stranger. He also has made his own choices. Did you tell him to smoke or sort drugs? What parent would? No, you told him not to. So how is it your fault? Next - with both of you, again. When he pushes the guilt buttons to make you give in to him (or to deflect you form the real topic, which is him making bad choices) you need to be aware that this is classic blame and deflection, and don't buy into it. Take the wind out of his sails - "Yes, we have been bad parents. Absolutely shocking. We failed to provide you with food, shelter and clothing. We failed to give you access to basic education so you're now unable to read and write. We beat you senseless every day and made you work in the mines. Yes, we are abusive. But we did not put drugs into your hands. Around the world there are many abused children who are not drug users. You made your choices; our parenting or not is not relevant to this issue." Agree with him. It's the scariest thing you can do to someone who is oppositional. Because what they have become accustomed to is the childish degeneration of argument to the "Tis! Tisn't!" stage. So observe yourself. Now, to costs - OK, there are cultural differences here, but my father taught me that if people don't pay for what they want, they don't value it. In our case it was the offspring of our dogs. I was upset at my father putting a price on our beloved puppies, especially when I had a young friend who wanted a puppy and couldn't afford one. My father showed me - there was one customer who wanted him to cut the puppy price back a long way. My father had initially refused, but he let the man have the puppy really cheap. And sure enough, the man brought the puppy back the following week. It wasn't good enough. Meanwhile others who had bought puppies (including the people who later bought the rejected puppy at the full price) were very happy, they sent us photos or rang us up to tell us how the puppy was doing and how their kids loved them. We aren 't wealthy. We wanted our kids to go to uni but we can't afford to pay the fees. Student loans are available, plus in Australia uni fees can be held over and paid back once you are in the workforce. Some parents still pay their kids' fees for them; we didn't. Sis-in-law paid her daughter's uni fees and then complained when her daughter didn't bother to study. Meanwhile easy child worked really hard, because she knew that every bit of the cost was coming out of her pocket; if not now, then eventually. I remember my ow uni days - I had to pay for my own expenses. I did my best to study hard because I had a personal investment in this. Meanwhile a friend of mine whose parents paid her fees (and who was a really bright girl, could have done brilliantly) goofed off with her boyfriend the whole time, never bothered to attend classes and eventually got kicked out for lack of progress. I've seen it over and over. I gather in the US it's the custom to put money aside for your kids' education. Some people take out mortgages etc to pay for it. But here, while some parents do this, it's not held to be bad parenting if you choose not to for whatever reason. In your son's case, I would have stipulated some positive academic outcome as a requirement for the next year's tuition to be paid. Otherwise, you can go get a job like other people, and work your own way through college. Frankly, for some people, this is what they need to do in order to survive. We have a native bird here in Australia that you undoubtedly know - the Sulphur-Crested Cockatoo. It's a large white parrot with a bright yellow crest it can raise when it gets excited. We have flocks around here, huge flocks. They used to be considered a pest and people were allowed to shoot them except inside national parks. They are beautiful, they are intelligent. But when people feed them, put out food to encourage them to come near, they get the immediate benefit of the company of these beautiful birds. You might begin feeding one pair, but after a matter of days or weeks your personal flock will have grown to hundreds. As long as you keep feeding them, they will come. They are seed eaters and will rapidly become tame enough to take food from your fingers. But they remain wild birds. The problems begin when you discover that wild birds that are intelligent, need to work for their food. If they get their food too easily, they have too much idle time on their hands (or beaks). And cockatoos then get to chewing stuff, getting up to mischief. Even if you weren't the one feeding them, simply living near someone who does, can cause thousands of dollars worth of damage. We've had the guttering on our house attacked, all the leaf guard gets pulled out. We put it back in, even rivet it in, and that only gives them more of a fun puzzle trying to work out how to remove it. If your house is made of timber (especially Western Red Cedar, a beautiful but soft wood) then you can find yourself literally eaten out of house and home. The problem with cockatoos is that they are like kids who get it too easy, who don't have to work for their keep. When they get bored because they have too much idle time (they've been fed and they still have some daylight hours left) you always find new mischief they've gotten up to. They become like gangs of hooligans roaming the streets, terrorising the neighbourhood. Maybe that is why Aussies tend to make kids pay their own way once they reach tertiary education! It is not bad parenting to cut your kid loose financially. Your wife needs to understand that as long as she enables your son, she is hastening his death. Our aim as parents is to raise our children to be happy, independent, productive and law-abiding members of society. That is our aim. If we do not succeed despite our best efforts, we shouldn't bet ourselves up about it, but also we shouldn't do anything that interferes with that aim. Enabling someone who refuses to take personal responsibility goes against that aim. You love your child (even if there are times you don't like him much!) but if he is to ever learn to live as an adult, he needs to learn NOW. The more money you keep throwing at him (either by direct handouts, or make-work that he doesn't respect and abuses) then the longer you keep him dependent. And he won't be grateful - no, he will be resentful. You can't win with that kind of nasty, self-centred logic. Your son needs you to cut him loose financially. He is a lot further down the drug abuse path than either of you realises. Your daughter has it right. Sorry. Your daughter perhaps has more claim to accuse you both of bad parenting OF HER, because you are so focussed on saving your son, that her sense of personal safety is neglected. Bur how does your daughter respond? With maturity, with strong personal choices, with clear communication. And with love towards you both. Your son dishes out disrespect, rule-breaking, deceit - and you let him do it and what's more, you make it possible for it to continue. The original diagnosis of ODD was unhelpful - there is generally an underlying disorder with ODD, the real cause which can often be missed. Again, not your fault. As parents, we do the best we can do, given the circumstances and our own fallibility. What sort of a father would your son make right now? How perfect would he be? Your daughter knows this, which is why she loves you and keeps coming home, although under her own stipulations. So you both need to know this too - you should not allow yourselves to be guilted into enabling him any further. It is te kindest thing to do for him, and the fastest way to force the issue to the point it is heading anyway, where HE has to realise that he is on his own and has to choose to live, or to die. HE has to choose. You can't save someone who wants to self-destruct. Get to NarcAnon or similar. You both need it. Also, stick around here. Others here know what you're both going through and can help. The drug-using creature is not your son. Your son is in there, but the drug-user has to be cut off before your son can find his way back. he will say terrible things, he will accuse you of bad parenting, he will threaten to kill himself (he's already doing that) and will threaten to never see you again. My nephew told his mother that if she cut him off, she would never see her grandchildren. ANd she worried about those children terribly, being raised in a house of drug abuse. She saw herself as the only chance for those grandchildren. So it was a threat that so easily could have had her giving way, as she had for so many years. She gave him household goods like a washing machine and furniture (from my mother's house, part of her estate which should have been shared among us, not handed to an addict) and he sold it all for drugs. But she gave him the stuff, in order to try to provide for her grandchildren. But that was HIS job! And while she did it, even in part, she was continuing to enable him. He is still in her life. So are the children. He is now clean. But the journey took over 20 years and it was torture. However, there has been a lot of light at the end of the tunnel now. If my sister had cut off her son sooner, things would have come to a head sooner and he would have learned sooner. You can't fix it forever. So - welcome to the group. Welcome to your wife also. Marg [/QUOTE]
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Son kicked out of the house and my wife enabling him - What do I do?
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