Thoughts Please

[Hound dog]

I'm not sure how to proceed.

Katie hasn't responded to a single message since monday when she claimed that M had moved to the shelter. Which I know he isn't allowed in any shelter in the state until May. (they'd already reached their max time for a year)

I'll grant you that right now I don't have much patience, especially with her. I haven't given her a bit of sympathy or even empathy at her current "situation" (mostly because I don't believe for a second it's changed) I didn't play the game this time. I'm just not up to playing the game these days.

I'm finding myself at a low boil that she's not responded to any of the messages inquiring about her and the kids welfare over the past days. She was supposed to call me Tuesday morning, but of course didn't. Not only was I awake, I have caller ID both on the house phone and the cell phone. No call.

easy child messaged her to tell her she hopes that they'll come to the party since it is especially for the grandkids. That she understands she's embarrassed ect, but it would be selfish to make the kids miss the party they were looking forward to when it would give them something fun and normal to focus on for a while.

She ignored easy child as well.

Now am I wrong in assuming that a "normal" person would not be mad at family who are only trying to protect her children? I mean that obviously shows we love and care for their welfare. And in all honesty.....her keeping them out of our lives all those years, she should be grateful those feelings are still there to begin with.

And since we're being ignored, I'm guessing she's pretty POed at us.

I'm having a LOT of trouble not really truly giving her a full piece of my mind tonight.

I mean you know, we've bought her kids clothes, xmas for 2 yrs (I mean the complete xmas), school supplies, toted them around town, let them stay here with me when they showed up on the doorstep unwanted, ect.........pointed out to her that her perv of a husband was flashing himself to the world, let her know he had a nude picture of her daughter online.............And she gets mad at US, not him, us. He's not feeding them, clothing them, buying the school supplies and xmas and halloween yadda yadda.........and she's mad at us. Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense.

You know what she told me when she was going on and on about the picture and making him leave? Oh.....I just can't believe the man who was the only one who helped me through my grandpa's death could do such a thing. Really? Her grandpa died when she was 16 for Chrissake, that was 16 yrs ago! She told me herself he's been doing this for years and years. omg She's known about it and tolerated it "because he helped me with my grandpa's death". I realize grief can be crippling. (boy do I realize that) But c'mon! And that ticks me off because all she had to do was make a phone call to US and we'd have helped her! (but M and biomom had convinced her that husband and I didn't give a d#mn about her, which I don't believe that her biomom did, out of character)

She wasn't concerned with the kids. She wasn't concerned whether or not he might have done something to the kids. She was only concerned with whether or not this would make her lose HER apartment.

So there could be a few different things going on.

1. They could be preparing to run, or have already convince the neighbor to take them to cincy and are already gone.

2. I was thinking she's just doing her normal game and waiting for me to play my part thinking she convinced me she'd "done something" (not so sure now, doesn't mesh with the ignoring deal going on)

3. Either the police or cps or both have started an investigation, in which case I am the bad guy for taking steps to protect the kids from their sperm donor. Which means the whole family are tossed into the same boat.

Now if you're trying to convince someone "that you've finally seen the light", you don't ignore them when they inquire how you're doing ect. Because to ignore someone implies that your p*ssed at them. Which would not be an appropriate response with "I've seen the light"

And I have no trouble believing she can tell her neighbor friend one huge whopping lie to get her to take her to cincy to the bus station. (seems this friend has been toting her around town when I won't)

I already know from their own mouths one of the reasons they were suddenly so determined to get out of Mo is because cps was after them. So running again is highly likely if she has any hint I took action. All she'd need is money for the bus tickets. Last time she could've cared less about having money for a motel, food, or even drinks for a 12-16 hr trip.

** police know about the open file with Mo cps because I told the officer, they know M's felony, they know he's armed with a switchblade he likes to sharpen in front of his kids** I hope to high heaven he looked up what that felony convinction was for (I gave him M's birthday) and checked with Mo's cps and it was enough to make them act one way or another.

So. Whatcha think?

I'm going to message her again tonight before going off to bed asking about how they're doing and whether or not she's going to come to the party. Because I really need to know if she's going to do the darn party or not if nothing else. If I still don't get a response, I'm going to start calling her. I know she probably won't pick up. BUT I've got a trick up my sleeve......I'll use Travis' cell phone to call if I can't get her to pick up with mine.

And I swear I'm really trying to keep myself distracted from this........but well, I can't help worrying about the grandkids.

 

[keista]

Now am I wrong in assuming that a "normal" person would not be mad at family who are only trying to protect her children?

No, you are not wrong in this assumption, but you are wrong in thinking that Katie is normal. She is without a doubt NOT normal. So, all your "reasonable expectations" are completely pointless. For your own sake and sanity, please stop expecting her to act "normal" because she has and will continue to disappoint and aggravate you every single time.

Have you checked with the school to see if the kids have been going? You got your name on their paperwork, didn't you? They should be able to tell you if they have been in school since Monday. I'd start there. If they haven't, and immediate welfare check is in order.

 

[Liahona]

Could you call the schools? See if they are still in class? You could stop by with something for the office to give them and then just run it down yourself. Or something along those lines. Do you have the neighbors phone number? Do you or anyone you trust live close enough to physically go check on them? You could send some of the treats they missed out on from the party.

There is a special place in hell for those that hurt children.

 

[HaoZi]

If you can't check on them yourself, I'd suggest a welfare check, too.

 

[toughlovin]

You an ask the police to do a well being check because you cant reach her.

TL

 

[hearts and roses]

I think you've gotten some good suggestions. Other than waiting for her to contact you back, check with the schools, have the police do the well being check, etc. Those a are good places to start.

Hugs, Nana.

 

[DDD]

The only other suggestion I can think of is for you to park near their complex and see what you can see. If the kids take a school bus you should be able to see or not see if they are boarding or offloading. She told you that she had a parttime job if I remember correctly, perhaps get within eyeball distance there too. I have done that when GFGmom had the sexual offender straight out of prison felon move into her home. It was tricky because we live in a small town so any moment I expected some neighbor to call the police about a suspicious woman in a parked car. I doubt that you would get anywhere at the school as they have stringent privacy rules. on the other hand, if she signed you up as a contact person at the school (I am "on the list" with gd for GFGmom's convenience, lol) then you "might" be able to manufacturer an excuse to stop by the school to drop off something for the kids. Somehow I doubt it.

I understand the fear and anxiety that results from her choices. You seem to have done everything you possibly can to supervise and protect from afar. It is stressful. Hugs. DDD

 

[buddy]

I would be so worried too. My family has worked hard on boundaries and not fixing things for others, but when there are kids involved, I dont know if any of us would stick to what we learned in therapy! (and of course none of us have any dangerous situations like you are experiencing along with someone refusing to communicate) I think the suggestions people have made sound really do-able. Do they feel right to you? Good thing with a wellness check is if the surprise her and they see something not right they will be mandated to report it (we would hope they would).

Sorry you have to go thru this. I would love you as my grandma! (youre too young for me though, smile)

 

[Marcie Mac]

Lisa, I know you are a very wonderful caring woman, but my thoughts? Leave it alone and walk away. There is absolutely nothing you can do with or for Katie - its sad the kids are suffering under her care but its out of your control. Its hard seeing them make half as#ed attempts to get it together, then revert. You have done what you can, reported the situation, and that is the most you can do.

I know you remember about 4 years or so again the drama surrounding my eldest and the meth head. I was absolutely consumed by the drama, the boys were consumed by the drama, SO was consumed by the drama. She was the main topic of conversation each and every day. Suz and Fran can attest to my craziness over the situation just by the number of emails sent (and posts made) The senarios in my head were of absurd proportions. I went above board and overboard trying to help, all to no avail, her boys were put in really dangerous situations, even down to SO sleeping in his truck at night and Danny sleeping in a chair by the side of the house with a lead pipe in hand to see if he would come by one more time to her window, or slash her tires. It.was.nuts

We were all firmly sucked into the drama of it all, it became our life for a while, then one by one we just walked away (of course I was the last LOL) We have a lunch or breakfast now once a month so I can see the gkids. I ask nothing about her life, and don't share a lot about hours - just light and pleasant. I am the one that keeps the contact going because only time she will ever call me is birthdays or christmas reminding me of the kids. Not how I envision a nice close family relationship with all of us but it is what it is.

Lisa my friend, spend your time and energy on your children and gkids that are in constant contact with you and are so very supportive to you. Do not let yourself (and them) to get wrapped up in the drama that is Katies life because then you are letting her distract yourselves from your own normal life. Do not let yourselves get addicted to the drama because it is one of the worst addictions going-you find yourself thriving on it andit sucks the very air out of the room

Marcie

 

[DammitJanet]

Actually Marcie makes much sense. I was going to tell you how to make a phone call on a cell phone or house phone so she cant tell that its you calling. *69. It blocks your number from being seen on her phone.

Honestly, I am not so sure she actually still has the computer or has the computer on. She may not even still be in the area anymore. I really expect her to bolt as soon as she gets wind of anything. Its her mo. She has no intention of getting rid of her husband and learning to stand on her own. She will just flee to get away from the fire.

 

[slsh]

Lisa - I also agree with- Marcie. Another thought - her failure to respond to your messages just reeks of manipulation. been there done that with- thank you. The more I left messages and the more frantic I got, the less likely he was ever going to respond. His huge payoff was I was just spinning here. When I quit calling? Surprise surprise - he started to call me (and not to ask for something, LOL).

I cannot imagine how hard it is to wonder what is going on with- the grands. It would probably have me in a tizzy in short order... but I'm not sure that you can realistically do anything, short of seeking custody and even then... is that likely?

Hugs to you.

 

[Hound dog]

Yes, Marcie does make much sense. I'm going to have to start chanting the Serenity prayer for a while. Since the loss of husband, I find I feel more protective of those 3 kids than ever.....and in a way that can be dangerous for me as it warps my ability to keep it at a safe distance.

Honestly, I am not so sure she actually still has the computer or has the computer on. She may not even still be in the area anymore. I really expect her to bolt as soon as she gets wind of anything. Its her mo. She has no intention of getting rid of her husband and learning to stand on her own. She will just flee to get away from the fire.

My thoughts exactly. A well child check would trigger such a response from her too. And due to the constant HUD inspections and landlord inspections, I doubt there would be any obvious grounds for removal of the kids if they were there. So she'd take off knowing something was up.

School was not helpful. I didn't really expect them to be, but it was worth a shot. They've got security firmly in place due to a super high unemployment rate, epidemic drug issue, and a sky high rise in dv situations. Good rules. Just not helpful to me.

So I'll focus on the serenity prayer and on my own problems which are plenty. Thanks guys for snapping me back on track. That's what I needed to hear.

 

[Hound dog]

And no, I have no thoughts on seeking custody in any way shape or form. A year of viewing their family dynamics........and well, if I were about 10 years younger maybe, but I'm just not up to tackling that huge job on top of two difficult child boys that are usually out of control. They need therapeutic foster care and some heavy duty therapy in hopes of un-learning what their parents have taught them.

 

[busywend]

I do think it is normal.....for an abused woman. That is what it sounds like to me. Abused women end up with no supports because they turn away from everyone that is trying to help them or open their eyes to it.

So, I think she is doing what she must to remain with him....like she wants to.

Which is why I agree that it is time to give up. I wouldn't call again. I would not check on them. I would assume a No response to the party and just enjoy your children and grandchildren that do come. It is sad for the other grands, but not your problem or fault. So let it go.

 

[AnnieO]

HD... Just a wondering question... Does Darrin ever see them at school? I'm not suggesting you use him to find out any other info, just a simple question - hey, have you seen K and A and E at school lately? IF NO, you shrug and change the subject. If yes, you - shrug and change the subject.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Don't you have a volunteer day at school coming up soon?

 

[donna723]

If M is still there in the apartment, then the computer is still there and she's ignoring you. Where ever he is, you know that "his" computer will be with him!

I think one of two things has happened. They are either all still there in the apartment, M included, and nothing has changed and she's ignoring you. OR ... they may have already been contacted by the police or CPS and they have either taken off or are planning to. But where would they go, and how would they get there? Can they even do this without someone helping them out like you did when they first came back to your town? Maybe the authorities have already talked to one or all of the kids at school and they got scared and are laying low. The only thing that you can be sure of at this point is that Katie will never EVER put the best interests of her children above her dependence on M. She's demonstrated that over and over again. Their whole lifestyle is dictated by him and revolves around him and whatever is best and easiest for him (and her), not those kids. They live a transitory life of poverty, abuse and neglect because of HIM and that's not going to change. You've done about all you can do for now and I just hope and pray that either the police or CPS will intervene quickly before they take those poor kids and disappear again!

Lisa, I'm so sorry that you have to have all this heartache and worry over the grands, along with everything else you have to contend with now. I adore my grandson and I know that he is much loved and very well cared for. But if I ever thought that he was being abused or neglected or in danger ... I can't even imagine how painful that would be!

 

[Hound dog]

She finally got around to answering.

Her excuse, because of course they're not coming to the party, is that not one but TWO kids last minute invited both kayla and alex to halloween parties and they want to go to those instead. And of course her and evan are sick so can't come either. She hopes I understand and am not hurt.

My reply was simple. Her excuse was more lame than I expected it to be but I was surprised she managed to make both herself and the kids look self centered and selfish. That I was sorry she felt the need to punish the kids because their family loves them enough to speak up for them. And I told her I'm sure I understand much more than she'd like.

A long time ago I made the decision if she ever was dumb enough to attempt to use the kids as pawns in her game I was done. It's a game I refuse to play. Well, she's reached that point.

And now? I'm done. I won't contact her again. I won't answer her messages, her calls. That she will sink so low says everything I needed to hear.

I hope the authorities get their acts together, for the kids sake. Me? I'm done with the games and the drama. Her "excuses" for both husband's funeral and the party were enough to really run it home we mean nothing to katie except what she can get out of us. A shame for the kids sake, because I'm sure they have different feelings. But there are just some things you can't control.

 

[AnnieO]

It's probably for the best that I don't know where she lives. Or husband, for that matter...

 

[InsaneCdn]

Lisa - Katie's oldest is old enough that you have made an impression on her. SHE may choose to come back to you on her own, whatever else happens between now and then. Grandmas do not always understand the impact they have on kids' lives. Whatever happens right now, is not the end of the story.

Keep on being you. Look after yourself, so that if a grand needs to show up at the door... they will know they are home. Not that you would take custody... but that you would find ways for them to be safe and still have you in their lives.

{{hugs}}