Time to ask her to leave...

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by gma, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. gma

    gma New Member

    I posted a couple of weeks ago about my 20yr old difficult child coming home after 45day residential and relapse within 1 week. difficult child is BiPolar (BP) and currently not taking medications. She was extremely suicidal and slept in the street a couple nights and we brought her home. Had a couple weeks of coming and going (still doing drugs) and then did good for about 7 days. Staying clean, home every night (of course I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, she can't do this on her own).
    She left on Saturday night, completely out of contact for 2 nights and just walked back in the door. No confrontations, just came in, said hello and went up to her room. I asked where she'd been and got a shrug and "I don't know". I didn't do anything at that point - trying to think it through...
    I'm hoping to get advise on how I tell her that its time for her to make a decision. Or do I just let her know my decision? This can't go on. She won't see her therapist, won't go back to a program, won't take medications. She is not confrontational or abusive at any time, just complacent and will not comply. She doesn't have her car, no money and the only thing I'm doing is providing a bed - but even that seems like we're allowing her to continue.
    So many on this site has had to do just this. How? I don't even know how to go down this road... I mean, what even to say - I know she'll say things like I don't want to live, I'll have to sleep on the street, etc. She won't yell or be angry, just have that "lost" look like are you really going to do this. An argument or an out and out blow up would seem easier at this point, but she won't go there, never has. I know that really isn't a good way, but being in a position to react rather than to respond responsibly sounds like the easy way out.. I'm just broken hearted, but so so tired and frighten for her, her existence, etc...
    Any suggestions, guidance, words of wisdom?
    Thank you so much for listening, posting, all the sharing. This site is a blessing. I don't comment often (feel like, how when it's all such a mess on this end), but your strength and support to each other is very encouraging. Hugs go out to each and everyone of you and your daily struggles, there is comfort in knowing others are able to detach, love from afar and find joy while trying to let go of our babies and let them fall so hopefully they can grow.
  2. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I have no meaningful good advice - and I am at the beginning of my own journey - just want to say - I am so sorry you are going thru this.
  3. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    So let me understand completely.

    She is 20 years old, BiPolar (BP), has been in some sort of residential placement and she uses drugs but she has no sort of income.

    How does she get money for the drugs? It doesnt sound like she has much of a social life if she is that complacent. They picture I get of her is not a very obnoxious or unruly person. Does she have a bunch of friends who are supporting her habit? What was or is her drug of choice?

    I truly get that she doesnt want to be on medications right now if she has been on them for a long time prior to turning into an adult. That happens a lot. My son has done this. He was completely compliant with medications up until he turned 18 and then just stopped. I understand why too. He was taking lithium and it caused him horrible shakes that continue to this day and he is 25 years old. I figure one day he will go back and get on something else.

    If your daughter is just listless and doing nothing but acting very depressed, is there anything you think you could do to motivate her to get the ball rolling to start becoming more involved in her own life in a positive way. Something fun. Now this wouldnt work if she is causing problems in your home. Im just thinking if she is more just moping around and wont do anything.

    I dont know enough about your situation.
  4. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I wish I could tell you what to do but we each have to map out our own journey with difficult child's. Each of them is different and each of us is different. Truly I do understand (as much as possible from afar) that you feel trapped in a situation with-o a solution. Sadly there is no "answer" that fits all of us with dysfunctional adults. Whatever you decide to do or even if you decide to do nothing...we are here to listen. Sending caring supportive thoughts your way. DDD
  5. gma

    gma New Member

    Thank you so much for taking the time to ask. About 18 she found a new crowd, ended up leaving home going off all medications and started using Meth. She states she hates the drug, but hates herself and choices more so buries it in the drug. 8 months of back and forth home a couple of physc hospital stays and finally telling her she couldn't come home without full residential treatment. Boyfriend of 4 years took her back ends up using too and dealing - his mom in total denial and allowing it to happen blaming my daughter for it all. difficult child felt and still feels like she needs to try to save boyfriend, because even though he had always experimented with drugs and there were lots of off and ons with them due to it, she blames herself because he came to her when she was using and asked her to help him get meth. We later found out part of her reason for running in the beginning was his unhealthy hold on her. Telling her she was crazy and she owed him for being the only one who could put up with her or love her. When she would get strong enough to end things, he would threaten to kill his self (during all this we had a young man in the area who was very close to our family hang himself, so the threat was real).

    Last June we got the call, she wanted help and to get back on medications and off drugs. She was ready for residential. She actually reached out to oldest brother, he called me to find somewhere that would take her at 10PM and didn't stop until he got her there before she changed her mind. She was then 19 and as we all know could walk if she wanted to. She did an amazing job working her program from day one. When she arrived they were concerned with her mental state and wasn't sure if it would work. By week one, they saw a completely different girl. They diagnosed her #1 Addition, boyfriend-codependency #2 Drugs - not for the high, but her coping skill to punish herself. She worked hard for 45 days, then it was time to move her into partial in-patient. 2 days into it, she heard news the "ex" had a new little 16yr old and they were in love. She didn't use any of the tools and relapses. Spent the next two weeks trying to get back on track, but didn't succeed. Finally, left her sober living arrangements and gave up completely. That's when she lived couch to couch (Ex sneaking her in and out, and oh yeah, did I mention the 37yr old dealer who has a thing for her (she credits him for helping talk her into leaving the boyfriend), he took her in for a few days. She realized real quick his "concern" and that's when she ended up sleeping in the street.

    Sorry so much ---

    Brings us to now. 3 weeks ago we brought her home, broken with cut wrists and just no will. We decided to just love her for now. We've tried to talk counseling, rehab again, nothing. Older siblings and families come over, call her, try to engage her with the nieces and nephews she adores, nothing. I've tried to suggest, walks, gym, anything to get her engaged, nothing. Most of the time in room sleeping or isolating. And then there are the disappearances every 4 to 5 days like this weekend. When she goes and is out of contact I know where and what she is doing. She doesn't bring it homes, just goes and returns.

    She is here but changing nothing. Isn't that just allowing her to destroy herself? We thought of giving her 1 week to either decide to get in a program and back to doctor's or let her know she will have to leave. We can't let her continue to do this to herself, right... However, her plan to "do something about it" and mine may not be the same.

    Again, thanks for asking and listening.
  6. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    What a complex situation you are facing. Sending support your way. DDD
  7. gma

    gma New Member

    Thank you for your support and sharing your most personal life challenges. It feels safe here and allows for sharing, asking, admitting, what we may or may not be comfortable discussing with the closest concerned family and friends. I know for me, I just feel like I want to talk to them about anything but this. I try not to go there, even to the extent of just not taking calls from life long friends. When we do talk, it's always there, of course out of concern and then I just feel so bad that I am an exhausting friend, daughter, mother, etc!
    Comments or responses from so many are everything from such anger, that then I see myself getting in my mama bear posture, and dang it, I don't want to defend any of difficult child actions or choices, but if I'm not careful instinctively I'll go there (this especially happens with Grandma, who worries about me. I try to stay far away from those conversations at all costs!). Then there are those that give well meaning ideas from picking up and moving (how realistic is that!), and besides, if my difficult child wants to go down this road, she'll find it no matter where we take her!

    Again, thanks for the outlet - Good thoughts going out to each of you!
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry you have to deal with all of this. In many ways this seems harder than the difficult child who is violent, blatantly breaks rules, is rude to your face, etc...

    in my opinion she needs a longer term program than the 45 day one. I don't even know that the drugs are her biggest problem, although of course they must be handled. Do you think that if you made her leave that she would kill herself? If so, one option would be to tell her she has to leave or go back to treatment/docs on x date. Then keep super close watch on her and as soon as you think she is a danger to herself, that she is choosing to die rather than go and live with ehr choices, you call the cops to transport a mentally ill person to a psychiatric hospital for a 72hr hold. That hold is for psychiatric assessment and they can order further inpatient treatment if needed. Not sure how you will pay for it, or how she will.

    Janet is right, she has to be doing something to get her drugs. Chances are that something is not something you want to know, and it is hurting her even more. She has a really long road ahead of her. Sadly, it seems it might be longer than many other because the other problems.

    I really don't know your options, but I do think you need to go to alanon or narcanon family meetings. As many as you can. Yes, you don't want to wrap your life up in her addictions, but her addictions have made YOU sick emotionally. So you need, and deserve, treatment also. Plus, some of the people at meetings might know of resources we don't.

    I am so sorry. It seems like such a difficult and painful situation. Please know that we are always here, and will be here for you at any time. There is time later to give back, when your heart isn't hurting so much, when the situation isn't so all-encompassing and terrifying. We all know that there are times we give, and times we receive here on the board. So no one minds you asking questions and venting.
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Yours is one of the saddest situation of all. The child who isnt a real problem at home but you know that they are doing the wrong thing when they arent home. I would suggest some Alanon sessions too or families anonymous because either of those places might have resources for you that we dont.
  10. gma

    gma New Member

    Thank you, thank you, thank you...
    And yes I agree with it all.
    45 days was not enough - we all knew as good as she was doing on the outside, there was way too much instability on the inside and with medications. Funds and resources ran out for the inpatient. She knew coming home wasn't good asked to stay where her program was a couple of hours from here. Set her up with sober housing, partial in-patient giving her every opportunity to continue to work her program. She just couldn't pick it up by herself yet. I have found other options for her, but she personally needs to get on their lists. She says won't do it again, and that every time we don't know what to do with her we send her off to some hospital , says too tired just wants to give up. Whatever it takes we'll make it happen if she'd only get on board...

    Getting the drugs, you're right and I just try not to go there in my mind when I can't change it. Believe me anything I said couldn't be any worse than what she says to herself.

    Helping myself, yep... I need to dig in. Did really good last year, did it all, meetings, had a great therapist that really helped me sort out a plan and "yes" even though we had to watch her walk out the door in the middle of winter knowing she was going to sleep in the boyfriend car was the hardest ever (she showed up cold and in tears, we said you can stay but the boyfriend isn't welcome, she said she understood, loved us and asked if she could take a blanket before she left). Eventually she asked for the help we offered which was full residential only - too many emergency 72 hour holds just for insurance, hospital and her to say she was out of danger and could be released..
    Alanon and therapist on my "to do", thanks for the "nudge", your right and I've been finding every reason not too.
  11. PatriotsGirl

    PatriotsGirl Guest

    I agree. It was so much easier when mine was ticking me off and doing horrible things. Since meth is your difficult child's doctor, you have probably done your research on the effects as I have done. It causes major deression and anxiety....

    I read your story and thought I was reading my own!! difficult child hasn't lived at home in almost a year now, pretty much. She has still not hit bottom and I believe she is still using. However, it is no longer destroying the rest of the house.

    I firmly believe in the old saying - nothing changes, if nothing changes. It is so very true. (((HUGS)))
  12. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest


    I am so sorry... this sounds so very hard. I am not sure how we would have kicked my son out if he had been complacent and complient with house rules... even if he was using outside the house. Fact is we can't control their behavior outside the house especially once they are adults.

    I think one really good thing is that she hit bottom and agreed to residential tx once before... so when she hits bottom she knows that is available and may reach out again. However the waiting until they hit bottom is so agonizing. And sometimes knowing what we know is so painful.
  13. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    She is so depressed. What does she have in her life? Job? Hobby? Friends? Anything? Please not just drugs. How would anyone get off them if that is the case.

    First, I do not think making her leave home is the best option. I realize that you are having a hard time with the drug periods & the worry for her life, but I just do not think it is the best option. It is recommended often, but mostly because the child is being disrespectful or violent.

    Has she EVER had a person that she talked with? I mean really opened up to?
  14. Bean

    Bean Member

    Yikes. Hugs to you, and more regret that you (anyone) has to deal with a situation like this. I agree that Alanon would be a good resource to start with. Just talking and being around others in similar situations can help.
  15. gma

    gma New Member

    Believe me, at this point she truly has nothing. She dropped out of HS with 4 credits needed. Tried to finish that through various methods, but no staying power or concentration. Family keeps trying, but she's built a wall of guilt that none of us can break down. She has a doggie she loves and won't even connect with him. Her friends she's grown up with are tired. Actually, they were giving it ANOTHER go, really rallying around her two weeks ago when she was done with the Ex for good this time, but they are 19 and take it very personal that she chooses him over their unconditional love every time (heck we all do, but I guess Mom's just have a little more staying power).

    This time the EX called from an unidentified number sobbing that he'd been badly beaten up by the 37yr dealer and 4 others for some very nasty slurs he posted all over facebook about difficult child (ain't it great I've got the drug dealer as her protector!!!). She ran back to EX. Had been gone 3 nights and just walked in sobbing and up in her room. I did go up and ask if she'd like to talk and she said "yes please, in just a little bit" and thanked me... ugh

    This is where I get so stuck. Do I talk it out with her and hope, just maybe this time will be different and she'll say I'm ready. Do I talk it out and when she looks me in the eye again and says, I won't do any of it to help myself - let that be and know she's got to be there. I think that's were I'm at, what choice do I have right now??? I don't think kicking her out is the answer... it doesn't feel right for today.

    Sorry gang, rambling here I know! Just venting and probably avoiding heading up those stairs to her room...maybe this time will be "the time", if it's not I'm sad but OK and will hope next time is...
  16. Bean

    Bean Member

    Sorry hon. Don't know what to tell you exactly as far as what to do. Always so hard to know, as each child is different. Your daughter has many similarities to mine. Mine is 20, still hasn't graduated. She's build her own walls. She makes bad choices. She doesn't go off for days (at least as far as I know, and not now) because she's not allowed to stay at our house because she can't live within the rules we have set. I have other kids to raise who are still at home (don't remember if you do), and my own mental health, and a marriage to contend to. Lots of times these kids can suck up every spare bit of energy you have.

    I don't doubt a the majority of difficult children have some sort of depression/anxiety/bipolar - some mental health issue. Sometimes that will come and go as a part of adolescence, but more often it is something that a person deals with their entire life (meaning this could go on a loooooooooooong time). I guess you have to decide what kind of boundaries or expectations you have for adult children that live with you and go from there.
  17. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    Hi gma-I've read your posts and I can understand how agonizing this decision is.

    Honestly, I wouldn't ask her to leave. If she's not disruptive or problematic at home, I think you are both better off if she is living at home. Asking her to leave may be like tossing her from the frying pan into the fire. My son did leave and frankly it created more heartbreak and more worries than it solved. So until you really have a plan of action and have exhausted all of your options, I would let her stay.

    She's not cutting you out of her life - the channels of communication are open (even if they are very faint) and I wouldn't want to close that door just yet. I think she obviously wants your help even if she can't figure out a way to make it work.

    Have you thought about starting with a a complete medical work up? I'd call her dr and let them know my concerns and ask for some help. I might try to approach it initially in a physical way...flu shot, routine bloodwork, (birth control?) etc etc. Have her thyroid checked, have the doctor check for lyme, epstein barr etc. and other physical reasons for the lethargy. It may give the doctor (as a third party) an avenue to suggest mental health counseling/rehab/etc. (for a brief moment - my difficult child was more open to working with his dr when the explanation seemed to include a physical reason for his amotivation)

    As I said, my difficult child left and is out of touch 4 hours away. I find myself checking his cell phone usage 3x a day (my account) just to reassure myself that he is alive. Every weekend, I can't sleep because I know that he is in the danger zone of college partying all night...frying pan to fire...