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Trying to make sense of todays blow up
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 275308" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>OK, 20:20 hindsight here.</p><p></p><p>This is notto say you are a bad parent, but I'm looking from the outside, plus have a different perspective. I'm also putting myself in your son's head (as well as in yours.</p><p></p><p>Your point of view - you tried to make conversation, possibly trying to lighten a moment of disappointment for him. And he just got rude with you and then violent, so you applied consequences which only made things worse. So what can you do? You're only being a parent, doing what we're told we need to do (ie teach appropriate behaviour and apply consequences when the wrong behaviour is used).</p><p></p><p>His point of view - his friend wasn't home - how frustrating! Then you stated the obvious as if mocking him and of course he got furious! Of course you must have known his friend wasn't home - because he heard the person on the other end clearly state, "he's not home," and so of course you must have heard it too. Because everything difficult child hears, you of course also hear and know. So why state the obvious? You must be mocking him. And of course he is frustrated and angry, so feels he has to lash out at someone. Then you get upset with him for being rude, when all he is doing is expressing his frustration and after all, you started it by being sarcastic about friend not being there (please note - this is HIS point of view, I'm not saying you did anything of the sort).</p><p>Then (his point of view again) he gets told, "OK, no friends over to play," so he gets violent because of course you're baiting him and taunting him.</p><p></p><p>And so it continues - he is venting, you punish and he has yet more reason to be angry and upset (and need to vent).</p><p></p><p>So now I will suggest (for future reference) an alterntaive dialogue. But ground rules first - don't punish for too many things at once; don't punish the stuff he has least control over. So choose now what to ignore (until a future date when you think he is finally able to control himself better). My recommendation - ignore apparent disrespect, simply don't tyake it on board as disrespect but instead, view it as him venting his frustration. Don't wear any of it, let it roll off.</p><p></p><p>Now, to begin - </p><p></p><p>difficult child: (slamming phone down)</p><p>Mother: So, he wasn't home, huh?</p><p>difficult child: (screaming) He wasn't home! Why don't you use your brain!</p><p>Mother: (ignoring the rudeness - it is actually frustration, he is too upset to control himself, therefore punishment now won't work) So what do you want to do now? Is there someone else you want to call? How about ...?</p><p>difficult child: I wanted X to come and play! It's all ruined! It's all wrecked! Everyone's being mean!</p><p>Mother: Let's sit and think - do you want a cold drink while we think about what we can do? Let's take a deep breath and make some plans for you.</p><p></p><p>He may have been too upset to still listen to any sort of reason, he may have still tried to slam the fridge door into you but chances are less that it would go that far. </p><p></p><p>When he is upset to this extent, the best thing you cna do, is try to help him regain control. That doesn't require bribes or mollycoddling him, although erring on the mollycoddle side is vastly better than having him charge out of the house in a rage. But he is upset, because difficult children at his age especially, see everything as if it revolves around them. Nothing happens to them that their mothers don't know about (because their mind and thoughts are an open book, of course you know exactly what he wants before he even says anything, don't you?).</p><p></p><p>This blew up on you with little warning. Once he's raging, your main focus should have been to help him regain control. And BECAUSE he's a difficult child, punishing and threats will not help him regain control, it will in fact set him off worse. What he needs, BECAUSE he is a difficult child, is positive motivation and planning ahead.</p><p></p><p>When he's calmer, point out that using your diary to organise a playdate could be a good way to plan. Talk him through making another call (when he feels he's calm enough to do so - encourage him to self-assess) and rehearse what to say. "Is X there? When will he be home?" and then when X is home, maknig an arrangement to come play on another day. "When will you be free to come over and play this week? So you have basketball practice tomorrow, math tutoring the next day - how does Thursday afternoon suit you? Great! What would you like to do? I was thinking we could watch a movie, or maybe play some video games. Mom said we could make popcorn if we're watching a movie. Do you have a movie you'd like to bring, or maybe watch one of ours? What will we watch?" and so on.</p><p></p><p>Once he's REALLY calm, and if you feel he has the maturity for it, you can also discuss how upset he got. If at any time he begins to get upset agian, drop the topic. Ask him why he got upset with you. If he says, "You were making me angry, saying what I already knew," you have a golden opportunity to reply, "I didn't mean to make you angry. I was just finding out, because I care about how you feel and you seemed to be disappointed. I was thinking, maybe I could make a suggestion to help."</p><p>"Yeah, like what?" This could be delivered in a sullen voice or not - ignore any mood. Just keep going.</p><p>"Well, you have other friends you could invite over. Or maybe we could plan to invite him on another day and put it in the diary so we wouldn't forget. If we know we can plan ahead, I can make sure we have some snacks available."</p><p></p><p>Something else to debrief - "You know you shouldn't have ridden off like that. don't you? And you went over to your friend's house after you were told he wasn't there. Did you think you had been lied to and you had to check for yourself? What did you find out?"</p><p>What he found out, was thta he hadn't been lied to and he had ridden over there for nothing. if anything, it was embarrassing to get there and find he had been told the truth.</p><p>If you need to, you can say, "You know you aren't supposed to ride around like that, don't you? We worry about you, we want you to be safe. Riding off like that, especially when you're angry, was not safe. So let's think - what would have been a better thing to do?"</p><p></p><p>Of course, all this takes patience, strength, your own ability to deal with extreme frustration, a change in mindset (from the "if I'm firm enough, he WILL learn to behave" model which doesn't work with difficult children) and some fast thinking/fancy mental footwork.</p><p>And practice.</p><p></p><p>But it DOES work. The first time you try this and have even partial success, will amaze and delight you.</p><p></p><p>I didn't invent this. I got a lot of it from Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child" and a lot more from people on this site. And since we've been using this, I've learned a lot form my own experience.</p><p></p><p>Again, you are a good parent. But you're not coping right now because you're taking it all personally and expect him to also take your pain personally (which he can't).</p><p></p><p>You say (in your sig) that he's very kind-hearted. You wouldn't say that without reason. However, what I think is happening is, he feels emotion very strongly and will rapidly change emotion. He has expectations and when anything derails them, for him it is the ultimate catastrophe. THat's when getting in between him and what he wants, is likely to get you steamrollered. As happened to you. </p><p></p><p>Don't take any of what he said or did personally. He really was not thinking about you at all (probably not acomforting thought). That's why he would have been surprised at you being upset. He really had no idea just how badly he behaved and wouldn't believe you.</p><p></p><p>It DOES get better. It won't always stay like this. But you can't manage beahviour like this with conventional methods, it just doesn't work. He isn't equipped like "normal" kids.</p><p></p><p>With punishment and management - you need to do what works and drop what doesn't. Sending him to his room - it didn't work. It is better to not try it, than to try it and fail. Once you fail - you have to never try it again.</p><p></p><p>A newborn baby cries when it wants to be fed. If it cries sooner than we expected (maybe it didn't feed enough last time) what do we do? Do we punish the baby? Or do we feed the baby early? Or find something else we can give the baby (such as a bottle of water)? </p><p>In a lot of ways, you can't judge your child by the usual 8 year old standards. In a lot of ways, he is still the baby crying for a feed. It takes time and patience to teach him to move to the next stage of personal/social development.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there. It's not so bad as it seems and I suspect by now, he doesn't think there was ever anything wrong. Whichonly makes you feel al lthe more resentful.</p><p></p><p>Punishing him for what he doesn't understand and can't control, will only make him resentful again and won't teach anything positive. Failure to punish him won't cause any problems. However, you CAN try to turn it into a teaching tool, if you try talking to him about it. </p><p></p><p>Again, read the book. It does help.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 275308, member: 1991"] OK, 20:20 hindsight here. This is notto say you are a bad parent, but I'm looking from the outside, plus have a different perspective. I'm also putting myself in your son's head (as well as in yours. Your point of view - you tried to make conversation, possibly trying to lighten a moment of disappointment for him. And he just got rude with you and then violent, so you applied consequences which only made things worse. So what can you do? You're only being a parent, doing what we're told we need to do (ie teach appropriate behaviour and apply consequences when the wrong behaviour is used). His point of view - his friend wasn't home - how frustrating! Then you stated the obvious as if mocking him and of course he got furious! Of course you must have known his friend wasn't home - because he heard the person on the other end clearly state, "he's not home," and so of course you must have heard it too. Because everything difficult child hears, you of course also hear and know. So why state the obvious? You must be mocking him. And of course he is frustrated and angry, so feels he has to lash out at someone. Then you get upset with him for being rude, when all he is doing is expressing his frustration and after all, you started it by being sarcastic about friend not being there (please note - this is HIS point of view, I'm not saying you did anything of the sort). Then (his point of view again) he gets told, "OK, no friends over to play," so he gets violent because of course you're baiting him and taunting him. And so it continues - he is venting, you punish and he has yet more reason to be angry and upset (and need to vent). So now I will suggest (for future reference) an alterntaive dialogue. But ground rules first - don't punish for too many things at once; don't punish the stuff he has least control over. So choose now what to ignore (until a future date when you think he is finally able to control himself better). My recommendation - ignore apparent disrespect, simply don't tyake it on board as disrespect but instead, view it as him venting his frustration. Don't wear any of it, let it roll off. Now, to begin - difficult child: (slamming phone down) Mother: So, he wasn't home, huh? difficult child: (screaming) He wasn't home! Why don't you use your brain! Mother: (ignoring the rudeness - it is actually frustration, he is too upset to control himself, therefore punishment now won't work) So what do you want to do now? Is there someone else you want to call? How about ...? difficult child: I wanted X to come and play! It's all ruined! It's all wrecked! Everyone's being mean! Mother: Let's sit and think - do you want a cold drink while we think about what we can do? Let's take a deep breath and make some plans for you. He may have been too upset to still listen to any sort of reason, he may have still tried to slam the fridge door into you but chances are less that it would go that far. When he is upset to this extent, the best thing you cna do, is try to help him regain control. That doesn't require bribes or mollycoddling him, although erring on the mollycoddle side is vastly better than having him charge out of the house in a rage. But he is upset, because difficult children at his age especially, see everything as if it revolves around them. Nothing happens to them that their mothers don't know about (because their mind and thoughts are an open book, of course you know exactly what he wants before he even says anything, don't you?). This blew up on you with little warning. Once he's raging, your main focus should have been to help him regain control. And BECAUSE he's a difficult child, punishing and threats will not help him regain control, it will in fact set him off worse. What he needs, BECAUSE he is a difficult child, is positive motivation and planning ahead. When he's calmer, point out that using your diary to organise a playdate could be a good way to plan. Talk him through making another call (when he feels he's calm enough to do so - encourage him to self-assess) and rehearse what to say. "Is X there? When will he be home?" and then when X is home, maknig an arrangement to come play on another day. "When will you be free to come over and play this week? So you have basketball practice tomorrow, math tutoring the next day - how does Thursday afternoon suit you? Great! What would you like to do? I was thinking we could watch a movie, or maybe play some video games. Mom said we could make popcorn if we're watching a movie. Do you have a movie you'd like to bring, or maybe watch one of ours? What will we watch?" and so on. Once he's REALLY calm, and if you feel he has the maturity for it, you can also discuss how upset he got. If at any time he begins to get upset agian, drop the topic. Ask him why he got upset with you. If he says, "You were making me angry, saying what I already knew," you have a golden opportunity to reply, "I didn't mean to make you angry. I was just finding out, because I care about how you feel and you seemed to be disappointed. I was thinking, maybe I could make a suggestion to help." "Yeah, like what?" This could be delivered in a sullen voice or not - ignore any mood. Just keep going. "Well, you have other friends you could invite over. Or maybe we could plan to invite him on another day and put it in the diary so we wouldn't forget. If we know we can plan ahead, I can make sure we have some snacks available." Something else to debrief - "You know you shouldn't have ridden off like that. don't you? And you went over to your friend's house after you were told he wasn't there. Did you think you had been lied to and you had to check for yourself? What did you find out?" What he found out, was thta he hadn't been lied to and he had ridden over there for nothing. if anything, it was embarrassing to get there and find he had been told the truth. If you need to, you can say, "You know you aren't supposed to ride around like that, don't you? We worry about you, we want you to be safe. Riding off like that, especially when you're angry, was not safe. So let's think - what would have been a better thing to do?" Of course, all this takes patience, strength, your own ability to deal with extreme frustration, a change in mindset (from the "if I'm firm enough, he WILL learn to behave" model which doesn't work with difficult children) and some fast thinking/fancy mental footwork. And practice. But it DOES work. The first time you try this and have even partial success, will amaze and delight you. I didn't invent this. I got a lot of it from Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child" and a lot more from people on this site. And since we've been using this, I've learned a lot form my own experience. Again, you are a good parent. But you're not coping right now because you're taking it all personally and expect him to also take your pain personally (which he can't). You say (in your sig) that he's very kind-hearted. You wouldn't say that without reason. However, what I think is happening is, he feels emotion very strongly and will rapidly change emotion. He has expectations and when anything derails them, for him it is the ultimate catastrophe. THat's when getting in between him and what he wants, is likely to get you steamrollered. As happened to you. Don't take any of what he said or did personally. He really was not thinking about you at all (probably not acomforting thought). That's why he would have been surprised at you being upset. He really had no idea just how badly he behaved and wouldn't believe you. It DOES get better. It won't always stay like this. But you can't manage beahviour like this with conventional methods, it just doesn't work. He isn't equipped like "normal" kids. With punishment and management - you need to do what works and drop what doesn't. Sending him to his room - it didn't work. It is better to not try it, than to try it and fail. Once you fail - you have to never try it again. A newborn baby cries when it wants to be fed. If it cries sooner than we expected (maybe it didn't feed enough last time) what do we do? Do we punish the baby? Or do we feed the baby early? Or find something else we can give the baby (such as a bottle of water)? In a lot of ways, you can't judge your child by the usual 8 year old standards. In a lot of ways, he is still the baby crying for a feed. It takes time and patience to teach him to move to the next stage of personal/social development. Hang in there. It's not so bad as it seems and I suspect by now, he doesn't think there was ever anything wrong. Whichonly makes you feel al lthe more resentful. Punishing him for what he doesn't understand and can't control, will only make him resentful again and won't teach anything positive. Failure to punish him won't cause any problems. However, you CAN try to turn it into a teaching tool, if you try talking to him about it. Again, read the book. It does help. Marg [/QUOTE]
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