Two sets of test results in. Definitely the same pattern, but more pronounced

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by TerryJ2, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Middle School Student Report, forwarded to HS and parents: Math 29 out of 50 correct, fail, retake intro to algebra in HS.
    Reading (analysis, comprehension) 39 out of 45, pass, advanced
    Science (investigation, force, motion, energy, matter, life systems, Earth and Space) 41 out of 50, pass, proficient
    Writing (composition, capitalization, punctuation, spelling, usage) 20 out of 24 correct, pass, proficient

    Wechsler, WIISC-IV (administered by therapist)
    Verbal comprehension 108 composite, 70%
    Perceptual reasoning 102 composite, 55%
    Working memory 88 composite, 21%
    Processing speed 85 composite, 16%
    Full Scale 98 IQ, 45% average

    Recommendations to staff: difficult child does not always retain what has been said--it is important to note that he does not fail to listen on purpose. Repeat verbal instruction, write everything down, check notebooks and agenda; difficulty with-planning and construction so posters and presentations need to be done step-by-step with-supervision; may benefit from practice puzzles and models; difficulty paying attention to small details; should practice reading and correcting items with-mistakes, both math and reading; should memorize and repeat strings of digits and letters read aloud; have him repeat back paragraph info immediately; needs speed-based drills in basic math facts.

    This is tough stuff because we've had tutors along the way, especially for basic math, and it seems as though difficult child hasn't retained much of it. Nor has he applied any tricks or tools of memory he has learned.

    He took another test this week, the Woodcock-Johnson, and I'll get the results soon. This is a good a time as any to sign him up for "special" tutoring, which will train him to think differently and use different parts of his brain, because clearly, what we're doing is not working. I've been wanting to do this for yrs but husband didn't want to spend the $. I'm going to find the $ somewhere.

    The teacher recommended Too Loud Too Bright

    He's been really bratty today but I'm trying to be patient.
    It's not just the stress of testing, and doing chores, and his wanting to be on the computer every second of the day; it's that easy child leaves tomorrow and is so mad at difficult child for stealing from her room that she doesn't want to have anything to do with-him any more. It's repeated behavior and she feels violated.
    My insides are crumbling.
  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, I just realized that I hadn't commented on my subject heading. He has taken these tests before (this is our third time) and was very weak in math and strong in reading and sociology. Also, he clearly showed signs of ADHD as a kid, and is still lacking focus now, although the medications help to a degree.
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Terry? Just me, but... THAT sounds SO much like Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), it isn't funny.
    Ever had him screened for auditory processing disorders? Especially the lesser-known ones like auditory figure ground?
  4. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I did, years ago, and it was a joke. I couldn't believe it was even covered by insurance. I should probably look for something more sophisticated. Have your kids had the testing done? Where did you go?
  5. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I found this online: Auditory processing disorder can be developmental or acquired. It may result from ear infections, head injuries or neurodevelopmental delays that affect processing of auditory information. This can include problems with: "...sound localization and lateralization (see also binaural fusion); auditory discrimination; auditory pattern recognition; temporal aspects of audition, including temporal integration, temporal discrimination (e.g., temporal gap detection), temporal ordering, and temporal masking; auditory performance in competing acoustic signals (including dichotic listening); and auditory performance with degraded acoustic signals.

    ... as well as a note that kids who have attention problems are not included in this category. I have no idea why.
    Also, my son has had 13 ear infections (age 11 mo's to 5 yrs). Is that a cause or effect?
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    The process here - Buddy can probably validate what is done in the US - is that you start with a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) evaluation. There's certain tests they run to screen for all sorts of things. We had to make sure the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) covered ALL the bases... and found out the second time around, that when we did it the first time, they didn't even know about the tests we needed. SO... you do need to get the right tests done.

    If the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) "suspects" some form of auditory processing disorder, that report goes to family doctor for referral to advanced audiology (here, PhD-level at teaching university). Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) can't refer, because Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) isn't considered "medical" staff. MDs rarely refuse to refer based on their recommendation, though.

    Sometimes they want a hearing test done first, just to make sure the problem really is "auditory processing" and not "hearing".

    Advanced audiology then does a raft of specialized tests - took us 2 appointments, about 3 hours of testing in total. And if they find auditory processing disorders? The "rx" is... personal FM system. Here... ONLY if it comes from advanced audiology, it's a guaranteed intervention at school. It's expensive, but they don't blink at these. Anything remotely related to physical disability (mobility, hearing, vision, etc.) is automatically dealt with and fairly quickly.

    Your difficult child could have both problems - hearing and Auditory Processing Disorders (APD). Generally, ear infections are more likely to cause hearing loss than Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), as Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) is a "brain" problem not an "ear" problem. But... it's a bit of a grey area. Where does one problem start and the other end? The important thing is for the person to actually "get the message" in the first place.

    And for my difficult child? That was the one single intervention that had major positive psychological impact.
  7. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    This is interesting, too: Students with Auditory Processing Challenges have great difficulties remembering information given. This is referred to as Auditory Memory Deficits. If the teacher says, 'get a piece of paper and a pencil out of your desk and write down your spelling words,' the student may get confused because there are too many commands at once. Impairments in the auditory memory deficits can severely weaken not only long-term memory but also language development and comprehension.
    How can a child with Auditory Processing Disorder get help?
    The sooner a child with Auditory Processing Disorder is given proper teaching strategies, particularly in the very early grades, the more likely it is that they will have fewer or milder difficulties later in life. These students will need a very structured, systematic, cumulative, repetitive and multisensory teaching method such as the Orton-Gillingham approach. By using a multisensory approach the student will be able to learn using the visual and kinesthetic modalities while simultaneously strengthening the auditory channels.
  8. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I had his hearing checked yrs ago and it was beyond perfect. But it wasn't multileveled, such as a 2-hr test.
    Their background noise was general static. Nothing like what I've just read online.
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    The auditory figure ground test? Specialized headphones with multiple microphones coming from different directions. difficult child had such a headache when he was done that... he felt like he'd just had the worst possible week at school. BINGO!
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My daughter Jumper has a very poor memory, which has impacted her ability to do well on tests. She does fine on her every day work, but when she has to remember, as in testing, she needs accomodations. I'm not sure part of it isn't anxiety too.

    Jumper was diagnosed with processing problems when she first got her IEP and was put into Special Education for reading (she could not read at all at the time at age 8) and math. She has since been testing twice by neuropsychs who do not find Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), but I think she still has a taste of it. It isn't fun to have a very poor memory. I hope this testing helps your little guy to get more help in school. You can not help it if you have a poor memory and it is not necessarily ADHD. There is a lot of "maybe" "maybe not" regarding Jumper and the ADD diagnosis.

    Good luck and I'm glad the testing was done!
  11. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Terry, I suspect both of mine have an Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) (difficult child 2 worse). I started with a hearing test in a soundproof booth.....both did awesome. Our audiologist says there is only one specialist that does the kind of testing in our state that he'd recommend and that is in The Cities. Because we do school online at home and I adjust how and when I talk to the boys, I have decided not to pursue the testing. If they should choose to go back to public school or they start having problems in other settings, I will look into this further. Not sure where you'd look for testing in your area.
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Well, if it is the one we used TeDo, she was awesome. Anyway, I didn't need to have any Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) referral, I just said I wanted the evaluation done and MA covered it. It is very different from hearing acuity tests. It tests how the sound travels and is interpreted in the brain in different circumstances. Q had difficulty in the comparison between left and right ears....sound entering the left is not handled by the right brain as it should and can't transfer back to the left for the language it needs. He also could not match pitch patterns and rhythms...they have simple tests for this, another sign of right temporal lobe injury and auditory processing problems. Yeah, it is very different from a typical hearing test...the background noise tests are checking auditory discrimination and can give a hint at processing but are not the processing tests.

    Still, at this point, would your son really cooperate with any interventions for it? Chances are right now if he wouldn't, it is how they work with him that is still going to be the most important....talking directly to him, making sure they have his attention, checking to see if he understood, use of visuals, repetition, and all the things they suggested. Would be great though if he could have a sound field system...they use it for other things besides Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) and it makes sense. If you have trouble with selective attention etc...then having the important voice stand out above other voices and noises would be a benefit I would think...and it is what the research supports.

    You are really gathering a lot of info that could help him. I wish our boys would not take it out on us/their family! Have you decided on the school plan for sure?
  13. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Buddy. I was just thinking along those lines after I posted today. I'm all for interventions, research, testing ... but difficult child won't go along with-half of it. Just to get all this testing done has been a royal pain in the #$(#. I have bent over backward to make sure we stop for food before and sometimes after, and have let him hang out at home and only do a few chores, but he has still complained loudly and his complaints are abusive, Know what I mean??
    He refused to be singled out last yr and each section of the 504 plan went down the tubes.
    The only thing I can think of is to force him into it because of the court case, and the threat of being removed from our home. Not a good way to live.
    on the other hand, if he continues with-o any interventions, *I* can't handle it.
    Right now we're doing therapy every week, because we can't afford an Residential Treatment Center (RTC).
    That's the best we can do for now.
    I'll bet dollars to donuts that husband says exactly the same thing you said. ;)
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Not sure how cooperative your school is... some schools (not ours) will allow a "trial" of a sound-field or personal-FM system, to see if it makes a difference. The thinking is... if it makes a difference and the kid knows that at the end of the testing this is what they are trying to get for him... sometimes that can be the carrot to get them through the testing.
  15. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I'll find out in the next two weeks. I hate waiting until the last minute but I don't have a choice.
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Terry, you do know to ignore the full scale IQ number, don't you? With such large ranges in the other scores, it is totally invalid to average it all out. Processing speed being so far down will drag the other numbers down inappropriately. Instead, work needs to be done to determine why the scores are low in those areas, and also to use the skill areas as a 'hook' to help him feel good about what he CAN do.

    Chances are he's a lot smarter than a value of 98 would indicate.

  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Ooohhhh, Marguerite, believe me, there's no way I'd believe he's only got an IQ of 98, lol! If he applied his perserverance on computer games, components, locks and keys on doors, and anything else he's not supposed to do, to school work, he'd be at genius level!
    I totally agree, once we figure out how to get his processing speed up (not to mention, his retention of math facts, which he DOES know) I'm sure the rest will follow.