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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 627128" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>blackgnat, this is something Recovering pointed out to me about the interactions between my daughter and myself. My daughter's relationships always seem to become physically abusive. It just about kills me to hear about it, or to see the bruises. It puts me into that place Recovering calls the FOG. I literally cannot think when that happens. What Recovering pointed out to me is: This may be why your daughter tells you those things. </p><p></p><p>And blackgnat...much as it hurt me to see it? Recovering was right. Some time after Recovering pointed that out to me, my daughter was asking me for something, and I had said "no". Immediately, with no forewarning of any kind, she posted pics of herself in the hospital after a truly horrible beating. (It was a FB conversation.)</p><p></p><p>Immediately, blackgnat.</p><p></p><p>She was manipulating me ON PURPOSE, with my own pain over her situation.</p><p></p><p>And here is the other thing I have come to understand a little bit more about, just recently: When we allow our kids to run these games with us, when we do not stand up to them when they verbally abuse us, when we do not call them at it when they are telling us something that is not true or when they are justifying, one more time, how they have been victimized...we are teaching them it is okay to do those things, blackgnat. For their sakes, for the sakes of our own beloved children, we HAVE to start respecting them enough to tell them the truth about their situations.</p><p></p><p>We have to do that, blackgnat. Kindness, understanding, sympathy, money and time and empathy have not worked. We have to try something different, something other than the things we know will not work.</p><p></p><p>We have to try, blackgnat.</p><p></p><p>I began by telling my son I expected more of him than to do what he was doing. I told him life is a hard thing, and that he was not exempted from its challenges. I told him to stand up.</p><p></p><p>I think I went too far. He has not responded to me for something like six months, now. But I would do the same thing again. I don't know how to be more gentle about it. If I did know how to say those things in a better way, I would have.</p><p></p><p>But to this minute, I believe I am doing the right thing. Teaching my grown man of a son that justifying his failures to his mother solved anything was wrong. There is a right way. That is to acknowledge whatever the problem is and deal with it. And there is a wrong way. And that is to expect everyone else to give you a free pass because the only thing that you have to offer is that you have a problem.</p><p></p><p>It does the kids a disservice blackgnat, to continue allowing them to believe that way once we know kindness and support do not help them to regain control of their lives.</p><p></p><p>Your son has other, valuable gifts that he is not identifying with. He will have to find and believe those good things about himself through challenge, through struggling and failing and falling down a thousand times, <em>just like we did, </em>blackgnat.</p><p></p><p>That is what happens in that "hitting bottom" place the therapists are always talking about. We face ourselves, make our choices, and face up to the lesson. But then, that little part of us is our own, blackgnat. And no one can ever take that away from us, because we earned it.</p><p></p><p>Could you tell your son he is strong enough to do what he needs to do? Could you tell him you are proud of his strength, and that you know he will make it? Could you focus the conversation, again and again, on his strength and resilience and courage? Could you tell him you expect him to stand up, to be a man?</p><p></p><p>I have been where you are, blackgnat. Recovering calls that place the FOG. It is the worst place I have ever been. But I know it now, blackgnat. I know how to take a breath. I know how to remember what I told myself I was going to do the next time this happened. Sometimes? The bad thing is so awful that I can't get past it right away. But sooner or later, that source of strength is there for me.</p><p></p><p>We are right here, blackgnat. You are alone with it? But you do have us. We have been able to put ourselves in a place where we can at least see a way to go, a way to get out of that dark, panicky place.</p><p></p><p>I think it is time to try a different way of interacting with this grown man son, blackgnat.</p><p></p><p>I learned how to do it. I know you can do it, too.</p><p></p><p>I'm so sorry for the hurt of it, blackgnat.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 627128, member: 17461"] blackgnat, this is something Recovering pointed out to me about the interactions between my daughter and myself. My daughter's relationships always seem to become physically abusive. It just about kills me to hear about it, or to see the bruises. It puts me into that place Recovering calls the FOG. I literally cannot think when that happens. What Recovering pointed out to me is: This may be why your daughter tells you those things. And blackgnat...much as it hurt me to see it? Recovering was right. Some time after Recovering pointed that out to me, my daughter was asking me for something, and I had said "no". Immediately, with no forewarning of any kind, she posted pics of herself in the hospital after a truly horrible beating. (It was a FB conversation.) Immediately, blackgnat. She was manipulating me ON PURPOSE, with my own pain over her situation. And here is the other thing I have come to understand a little bit more about, just recently: When we allow our kids to run these games with us, when we do not stand up to them when they verbally abuse us, when we do not call them at it when they are telling us something that is not true or when they are justifying, one more time, how they have been victimized...we are teaching them it is okay to do those things, blackgnat. For their sakes, for the sakes of our own beloved children, we HAVE to start respecting them enough to tell them the truth about their situations. We have to do that, blackgnat. Kindness, understanding, sympathy, money and time and empathy have not worked. We have to try something different, something other than the things we know will not work. We have to try, blackgnat. I began by telling my son I expected more of him than to do what he was doing. I told him life is a hard thing, and that he was not exempted from its challenges. I told him to stand up. I think I went too far. He has not responded to me for something like six months, now. But I would do the same thing again. I don't know how to be more gentle about it. If I did know how to say those things in a better way, I would have. But to this minute, I believe I am doing the right thing. Teaching my grown man of a son that justifying his failures to his mother solved anything was wrong. There is a right way. That is to acknowledge whatever the problem is and deal with it. And there is a wrong way. And that is to expect everyone else to give you a free pass because the only thing that you have to offer is that you have a problem. It does the kids a disservice blackgnat, to continue allowing them to believe that way once we know kindness and support do not help them to regain control of their lives. Your son has other, valuable gifts that he is not identifying with. He will have to find and believe those good things about himself through challenge, through struggling and failing and falling down a thousand times, [I]just like we did, [/I]blackgnat. That is what happens in that "hitting bottom" place the therapists are always talking about. We face ourselves, make our choices, and face up to the lesson. But then, that little part of us is our own, blackgnat. And no one can ever take that away from us, because we earned it. Could you tell your son he is strong enough to do what he needs to do? Could you tell him you are proud of his strength, and that you know he will make it? Could you focus the conversation, again and again, on his strength and resilience and courage? Could you tell him you expect him to stand up, to be a man? I have been where you are, blackgnat. Recovering calls that place the FOG. It is the worst place I have ever been. But I know it now, blackgnat. I know how to take a breath. I know how to remember what I told myself I was going to do the next time this happened. Sometimes? The bad thing is so awful that I can't get past it right away. But sooner or later, that source of strength is there for me. We are right here, blackgnat. You are alone with it? But you do have us. We have been able to put ourselves in a place where we can at least see a way to go, a way to get out of that dark, panicky place. I think it is time to try a different way of interacting with this grown man son, blackgnat. I learned how to do it. I know you can do it, too. I'm so sorry for the hurt of it, blackgnat. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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