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<blockquote data-quote="BusynMember" data-source="post: 661212" data-attributes="member: 1550"><p>One thing I learned but good both in therapy and from every self-help book around, FEELINGS AREN'T FACTS.</p><p></p><p>You were actually the one abused, but your mother brainwashed you for so long that you felt YOU abused her every time you didn't dance to her tune. Think about it and you'll see it with clarity. You don't want to see your mother as abusive, but she was. That is her legacy...abusing you and maybe your sister, which made your sister mean. We all react differently. Some give in. Some are both passive sometimes, then fight back (this was me), some turn out to be just like our abusers. Most of us with complex post traumatic stress disorder believe what our abusers say about it.By golly, if they call us abusive, WE ARE. If they say we are no good, useless, selfish, ugly, WE ARE. If they tell us we are borderline or schizophrenic or bipolar or brain damaged, WE ARE. That's the Stockholm Syndrome, which is part of surviving with somebody who thinks you are horrible. You learn to agree or you can't be with the person because not agreeing causes one of two outcomes:</p><p></p><p>1. The person throws you out of their life (which abused kids especially and many abused adults don't want...our inner child wants a mommy. Even a bad mommy. We may not even recognize that they are the bad ones. We may think it's us. We usually think it's us.</p><p></p><p>2. The person not only throws you out, but tries to get everyone else to throw you out too. These abusers can not tolerate being called out on their abuse with examples of it. They won't calmly listen, even if we speak calmly. They won't hear of it. They never do anything wrong. YOU DO.</p><p></p><p>I have thought about how I'd feel if somebody who as not me was telling me about my mom...her night raids, her horrible names, her mocking of me, her disinterest in anything about me unless I cut my hair or didn't want to sing anymore or dated gentiles. If somebody told me her mother had admitted she had no feelings for the baby that was the person. How would YOU feel if somebody told you your own story?</p><p></p><p>Wouldn't you think, "What a nut?" Meaning the mother. "How *(*(#( mean?"</p><p></p><p>What if you saw a mother in a store loudly mocking her child. I've seen it in Goodwill. The parents were mocking their little boy for crying because he wanted them to buy him a doll.</p><p></p><p>"OH, look, Mac (Not his name) wants a doll just like a girl!"</p><p>"Yeah, he does act a lot like a little girl. Listen, son, you're a boy and boys don't play with dolls!"</p><p>"But he's NOT a boy, Charlie (not his name). He's a GIRL." (mother giggles. Man laughs)</p><p>Little boy, as they continue, has his forehead against the cart and his crying desperate tears. We are not allowed to confront customers. I wanted to smash t heir faces together for that pour little boy.</p><p></p><p>Copa, you were brainwashed. Cedar, you were brainwashed. Anyone else who was abused and feels "bad about making mom or dad abuse me" is brainwashed. I was brainwashed and "they" keep trying to keep brainwash me.</p><p></p><p>in my opinion it is not good to be around these people, whoever "them" is in your life. Why? Nobody else sees you as bad, lazy, no good, useless, stupid, etc. etc. etc. Not even close friends and spouse who know you better than your FOO collection ever did. Nobody else thinks these things about you so you start to see that the FOO, just acting like a run-of-the-mill dysunfctional family, are wrong, even if they believe it about you very much. Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, hey, hey...GOOD-BYE (blowing a final kiss).</p><p></p><p>I find that this treatment goes away without "them" in my life because other people like you and don't see you the way "them" does.</p><p></p><p>That way I can get my head on straight and remember that "them" have no training in psychology and don't even realize the abuse in our house and have no credentials to tell anyone what they are like psychologically. And if they think you're "bad", well, who cares? They're *poof* now and what they say is not in your space and does not affect your life.</p><p></p><p>I do not miss "them." My mother has been dead ten years and I guiltily admit I never spent one day missing her. I do not miss the "thems" who are still alive.</p><p></p><p>If anyone has the ability (and, yes, it takes ability) to disconnect from the "thems" in your lives, you will lfind a new peace. I am actually surprised by what the difference is without my "thems." I have a realistic picture of me, the good, bad and neutral. I am much happier.</p><p></p><p>Copa, your mother seems to have had a stronger hold over you than mine had over me. I'm not sure why. Maybe because she controlled your every move and m ine just cared about a few things, like not owning a Barbie, and most of the time just let me do what I wanted to do without caring one bit about what I was or wasn't learning to be a responsible adult. This matters. The hold they have on us makes it harder.</p><p></p><p>I truly think my mom would have eventually blown it off if I had dropped out of school, except that she wanted to please HER mom and my grandmother would not have liked it.</p><p></p><p>"I won't take you to a psychiatrist, SWOT. Mrs. R. did it for D. and he told her that D's problems were HER fault. I'm not going to take you to a psychiatrist just so you can hear that." Moral of the story: It's all about them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BusynMember, post: 661212, member: 1550"] One thing I learned but good both in therapy and from every self-help book around, FEELINGS AREN'T FACTS. You were actually the one abused, but your mother brainwashed you for so long that you felt YOU abused her every time you didn't dance to her tune. Think about it and you'll see it with clarity. You don't want to see your mother as abusive, but she was. That is her legacy...abusing you and maybe your sister, which made your sister mean. We all react differently. Some give in. Some are both passive sometimes, then fight back (this was me), some turn out to be just like our abusers. Most of us with complex post traumatic stress disorder believe what our abusers say about it.By golly, if they call us abusive, WE ARE. If they say we are no good, useless, selfish, ugly, WE ARE. If they tell us we are borderline or schizophrenic or bipolar or brain damaged, WE ARE. That's the Stockholm Syndrome, which is part of surviving with somebody who thinks you are horrible. You learn to agree or you can't be with the person because not agreeing causes one of two outcomes: 1. The person throws you out of their life (which abused kids especially and many abused adults don't want...our inner child wants a mommy. Even a bad mommy. We may not even recognize that they are the bad ones. We may think it's us. We usually think it's us. 2. The person not only throws you out, but tries to get everyone else to throw you out too. These abusers can not tolerate being called out on their abuse with examples of it. They won't calmly listen, even if we speak calmly. They won't hear of it. They never do anything wrong. YOU DO. I have thought about how I'd feel if somebody who as not me was telling me about my mom...her night raids, her horrible names, her mocking of me, her disinterest in anything about me unless I cut my hair or didn't want to sing anymore or dated gentiles. If somebody told me her mother had admitted she had no feelings for the baby that was the person. How would YOU feel if somebody told you your own story? Wouldn't you think, "What a nut?" Meaning the mother. "How *(*(#( mean?" What if you saw a mother in a store loudly mocking her child. I've seen it in Goodwill. The parents were mocking their little boy for crying because he wanted them to buy him a doll. "OH, look, Mac (Not his name) wants a doll just like a girl!" "Yeah, he does act a lot like a little girl. Listen, son, you're a boy and boys don't play with dolls!" "But he's NOT a boy, Charlie (not his name). He's a GIRL." (mother giggles. Man laughs) Little boy, as they continue, has his forehead against the cart and his crying desperate tears. We are not allowed to confront customers. I wanted to smash t heir faces together for that pour little boy. Copa, you were brainwashed. Cedar, you were brainwashed. Anyone else who was abused and feels "bad about making mom or dad abuse me" is brainwashed. I was brainwashed and "they" keep trying to keep brainwash me. in my opinion it is not good to be around these people, whoever "them" is in your life. Why? Nobody else sees you as bad, lazy, no good, useless, stupid, etc. etc. etc. Not even close friends and spouse who know you better than your FOO collection ever did. Nobody else thinks these things about you so you start to see that the FOO, just acting like a run-of-the-mill dysunfctional family, are wrong, even if they believe it about you very much. Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, hey, hey...GOOD-BYE (blowing a final kiss). I find that this treatment goes away without "them" in my life because other people like you and don't see you the way "them" does. That way I can get my head on straight and remember that "them" have no training in psychology and don't even realize the abuse in our house and have no credentials to tell anyone what they are like psychologically. And if they think you're "bad", well, who cares? They're *poof* now and what they say is not in your space and does not affect your life. I do not miss "them." My mother has been dead ten years and I guiltily admit I never spent one day missing her. I do not miss the "thems" who are still alive. If anyone has the ability (and, yes, it takes ability) to disconnect from the "thems" in your lives, you will lfind a new peace. I am actually surprised by what the difference is without my "thems." I have a realistic picture of me, the good, bad and neutral. I am much happier. Copa, your mother seems to have had a stronger hold over you than mine had over me. I'm not sure why. Maybe because she controlled your every move and m ine just cared about a few things, like not owning a Barbie, and most of the time just let me do what I wanted to do without caring one bit about what I was or wasn't learning to be a responsible adult. This matters. The hold they have on us makes it harder. I truly think my mom would have eventually blown it off if I had dropped out of school, except that she wanted to please HER mom and my grandmother would not have liked it. "I won't take you to a psychiatrist, SWOT. Mrs. R. did it for D. and he told her that D's problems were HER fault. I'm not going to take you to a psychiatrist just so you can hear that." Moral of the story: It's all about them. [/QUOTE]
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